DaveB,

What makes you believe there's a correlation between test pipes and oil consumption?

 

interested in an answer to DaveB's response.

 

You have reasonable concerns, but the r&d that went into this unique product deserves some merit, don't you think? If there was no return on investment, then these kinds of products would never come to market and where would the consumer be then?

I'm sure someone will try to copy it, but my understanding is that Motordyne has a year after public disclosure to file for patent. Then if the patent is awarded (some time later), anyone that infringed despite disclosure of the patent pending would be subject to penalties for all activity to date. That's a big risk for someone to sell a few "pipes". Maybe in a year or so if the patent doesn't go through, you'll see knock offs, and maybe they'll work just as well, maybe... I think this invention is a perfect example of "a better mousetrap" and the patent will go through.

 

Tony, just make long tube headers that incorporate ART tech and charge $1200

 

I was looking forward to these but I'm disappointed with the price. He makes a very nice product but I can't justify paying 660. I think he would make more money if they were like 400$ b/c I think a lot more plp would buy them. O well this is no disrespect to anyone......

 

It's well documented that the rings and ring lands on the VQ35DE are pretty weak. They were designed with emissions and rev-ability in mind. If you do a search on my350z.com, there seems to be a lot reports of OC on 03-06 Zs shortly after adding TPs. On the 05/06 Revup cars, the OC could be attributed to the lingering OC issue that plagues those cars even without TPs. But the fact that so many report OC in their 03/04s after the installation of the TPs is a bit scary. It's almost as if adding the TPs causes some sort issue with the rings or possibly the PCV system. The OEM cats include both pre-cats and regular cats and they're jammed right up against the manifolds. Obviously they create some back pressure and affect exhaust velocity. Removing these parts could end up affecting the combustion process and ultimately the rings, maybe impact the emissions system (ie create high vacuum on decel), cause an overly lean condition (could affect the rings, detonation), or causes an overly rich condition (could affect the rings). It's hard to know, but since so many report the issue with TPs and then issue disappears when putting the OEM cats back on shows me that:

1) TPs might affect OCs
2) These cars are flakey

If this car wasn't my DD, I wouldn't be as concerned. I won't be purchasing the ART pipes mostly because I don't want the odors and then the OC issue sits in the back of my mind. One option I guess, would be to add a single cat just aft of the Y-pipe and route the O2 senors to it. That could definitely help things.

Now it's quite possible the helmholtz design might completely combat the possible OC link. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

1) Will the chambers collect water vapor? I honestly don't know if this would be an issue or not seeing that the cats are gone.

No. They get much too hot for water to stay condensed. After about 2-3 minutes of operation they get HOT.

2) What about long term vibration on the welds? I know the pipes are very light, but I'd think utilizing the OEM tranny mounting points would be more ideal.
The stock cats need it because they are so very heavy, but these are like conventional test pipes in their weight and construction. Many test pipes with brackets seem to be more prone to cracking than thoes without brackets. So it is best to leave them out. From what I have gathered from the forums is not that there is a problem with test pipes cracking, its what they are connected to that can cause them to crack. IE poorly designed catbacks. For example, the Nismo Ypipe is notorious for cracking test pipes.
The stock Y pipe almost never causes cracking.

3) I'm still not convinced that running TPs on these cars doesn't cause some sort of oil consumption issue.
I havnt seen anything to indicate that test pipes, or basic bolt on's in general can cause oil consumption. From what I understand, it was simply a wrong selection of alloy for the piston rings.

All concerns set aside, kudos to Tony for another outside-the-box mod option. The gains and reduction in noise/rasp will be worth the price of admission for many.

Thank you!

As for very low RPM TQ, lets let the independent dynos define all the parameters. I'm sure there will be some degree of variation from car to car but after a good number of dynos come in we should get a good feel of the range.

 

You are basing your assertion on your assumption that these are cheap to make.

This is totally false. The manufacturing cost is what drives the price.
First off, I am arguably using the best exhaust fabricator in America. Not just any slop shop that can slam ugly pipes together.
Secondly, its a lot more complicated to fabricate than regular test pipes.
Thirdly, Its made in America in relatively low volume. An employee in California costs about 10X as much per hour as it costs to employ a person for a whole day in China.

You obviously have no idea how much it costs to fabricate these. Or how much it costs to invent, research, develop these out of thin air. Or how much a domestic or international patent costs. If you don't agree, pull up examples of 100% American made parts. Similar in complexity. What is the list price? It will be very similar because I am making the same marginal rates as everyone else in the industry.

And this doesn't even include the development costs. It will be a long time before any profit is made on this project.

 

To all the people pissing and moaning about the cost of the ART pipes; if money is a problem, come back when it's not.

It's quality merchandise and your car deserves to have quality products.


My .02 cents

 

Well I definitely want to buy these pipes and all I'm saying is that if you can afford to sell them for 460 for people planning to do a dyno run......you should just sell them for 460. You'll still be making a profit and I don't think you'll disagree with that. At 460 I can't imagine anybody buying another brand of TP on the market other than yours & at 460, you'd sell a hell of a lot more TPs than you would at 660 and thus make your ROI faster.


when they come down in price.....i'll certainly buy these & even stick a MD sticker on my car....otherwise I'll save for some Fast Intentions HFC's.

If quantity sold at roughly 400 is a concern, I'm sure a group buy would take care of that.....

 

at roughly 400 meaning cost....maybe i should have said 4xx.....or put a $ in front of it so that you could comprehend better? still, reading the sentence it's pretty clear what i was saying....you just misread.

what i know is that if he can afford to give discounts @ $200 off, then he is still making a profit. that's common sense else it wouldn't make any sense to sell them at 200 off simply for a dyno run. he could save his money if that was the case and get the dyno run himself or just have 1 person do it. if he was giving them away AT COST it wouldn't make sense. his profit margin is obviously quite significant if 200 off is a dyno discount. the people getting it for 460 are certainly not getting it AT COST.....even at 460, profit is being made...which by all means is a good thing for him and makes sense.

i'd go as far as to imagine that at 460 his margin is hefty.


again, no disrespect to tony, great product but horrible price.

 

+1 to Calvin's post.

I just scheduled my install and dyno runs for this Saturday (or possibly next Saturday). So I'll let you guys know how these ART pipes stack up against my F.I. HFC's, since I know a lot of people run them.

jsky350gt - In the end, he's running a business and all businesses need to make money. At least Tony doesn't just make the same old parts that every other company makes, but rather keeps developing new and better parts for our cars.

 

if quantity sold AT 400

at 400 indicates price. it would take extremely poor comprehension and logic skills to assume 400 is the quantity. lol


and silencer....yes it's a great product and it's nice that some people actually care to develop new products for our cars rather than pushing out the same stuff you see on a Mustang.....BUT, the price point suggests that the purpose of the original idea to make this product was to make a killing....so it's a give and take in my book....Tony makes great products and has some great ideas, but the company is really all about raking in the dough and that's evident in the price point. this is just what it looks like....i'm sure he'll sell a few of these at 660 and a bunch of people will jump on the 460 + dyno deal to save some dough in the long run, but i can't imagine volume sales @660.

glws's tho

 

would love to find out the sound difference between your FI HFC's and these.

I wonder how the drone would be in your car. After looking at your posts, you're running the Shockwave and the FI HFC on a 5AT. I'd imagine that these TP's would cut the drone down in the ride by a lot and could be just slightly louder than the HFC's.....really anxious to find out how everything goes with your car....take some pics of the install please.....

 

Jsky,

You are making incorrect assumptions and arriving at incorrect conclusions.