Dang. Why did I go out and test drive the new 911

[RBull]

Originally Posted by Z06ified

It started after the original poster mentioned how impressed he was with the performance of the 911 Carrera after a test ride. All I did was mention that if you think the 911 Carrera was fast, you should test drive the Z06 for the same price, and it will make it feel slow by comparison. And I stand by that statement, despite being attacked by it ever since. No one has been able to refute my claim with facts, because they can't (look at any test numbers for both cars, and the facts are as clear as day), and no one has actually driven both cars.

That's all I mentioned, and suddenly I was hearing comments like Porsches are just better, they handle better, the interior on the Z06 sucks, and the 911's interior is the greatest thing ever, blah blah blah. I defended these claims with facts, which few others seem keen on using, and here we are.



Cachet is an intangible. If cachet and prestige is more important to you than performance, then I guess Porsche is for you. Personally, I care less about the car I drive impressing other people, and I care more about the car I drive impressing ME.


Poseur was probably a bit harsh. But what the Z06 does is ask the question: why does the 911 Carrera cost the same as the Z06, yet offers substantially less performance, and the 911 Turbo cost nearly double the Z06, yet offers equivalent performance? Porsche hasn't answered that question yet.

When I called the 911 a poseur, I was referring to its price performance ratio. Viewed another way, for $70k, two competing sports cars should offer similar performance to be competitive, yet the 911 Carrera lags significantly behind the Z06. That makes it a poseur sports car. Certainly when you take away the price issue, the 911 is not a poseur. Its performance speaks for itself, and is certainly admirable. All I'm saying is you should get more for your money than what Porsche offers you, relative to its competition.


Well, I wouldn't pay a premium for that stuff. I would pay a premium for performance, not exclusivity. Many people are quick to judge me as a Porsche hater. I'm not. I like most of their models, and I respect the engineering that goes into them, and the performance they can generate. What bothers me about them is they seem overpriced for what you get.

I know for a fact I would thoroughly enjoy owning a 911 Turbo or GT2, or GT3. If the Corvette and Viper didn't exist, or were more expensive than a 911 Turbo, I would be driving one now.

Fair points. I agree with many of them. Point, set and match on your value statements about the Z06. I think anyone on the boards much is pretty familiar with your stance.

I was trying to take an honest objective point of view with both cars. Whether I succeeded I guess may depend on which of the cars you prefer...or own.

In any case enjoy your car. It's one I would love to own.

[pdjafari]

cars are all about the overall picture. we didnt buy G35's b/c they were the fastest for 35k... we got them for the overall quality, performance, etc etc etc for 35k, but we also bought into brand and image (infiniti).

many people dont care about brand name and image...but most people who have good taste and $$ care about brand name when it comes to clothes, shoes, watches, cars...

based on Z06's mentality, he'd buy a citizen watch for $500 over lets say a 3k Breitling all b/c its just as good but less. if this was the case then ferrari's, lambo's porsche's, BMWs, MBs wouldnt sell. people with money have different taste and feel that along w/ the $$ comes brand name and image. you'll never see a wealthy celeb. or sports star driving a malibu or insight. it's all about status and image for those who have the $$ to spend.

if i had my choice right now

Ferrari or Z06 corvette

Id take the ferrari...why?? b/c corvettes are a dime a dozen and just too common. the ferrari is on another level...in addition who cares if a corvette can keep up w/ a ferrari?? an evo can kill a G...does that mean its better?? i can make a 10k civic faster than both a z06 and a ferrari...so that means its better?? your looking only at performance...for most ppl its the overall picture not just performance they look at...If the AVERAGE JOE truly was an enthusiast and cared soo much for performance, the G35 coupe would be selling better than the BMW 3 series coupe...but GUESS which car you see on the road more often??? The average person does NOT care about the G35 costing less than a 330ci and performing better. they see BMW=quality and image and name....CASE CLOSED!!

[Z06ified]

Originally Posted by Renesis

It just feels different when you sit into both. Even though I know Z06 is a lot of performance, the cabin of the Turbo is just more comfy or confident.

And you're willing to pay $70k more for comfy and confident?

[Z06ified]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

cars are all about the overall picture. we didnt buy G35's b/c they were the fastest for 35k... we got them for the overall quality, performance, etc etc etc for 35k, but we also bought into brand and image (infiniti).

Speak for yourself. I bought a G35 for its performance, styling, and bang for the buck. Brand and image had absolutely no influence on my purchase decision. The only upside to Infiniti was it had a better warranty and service versus Nissan, but if the same car was sold as a Nissan Skyline, or Nissan POS, I still would have purchased the car.

many people dont care about brand name and image...but most people who have good taste and $$ care about brand name when it comes to clothes, shoes, watches, cars...

I don't agree with that. Conformists and those looking to compensate for something else lacking in their lives spend money on brand names to try to improve their own image because they care too much about what other people think of them. Generally falls under the category of poor self esteem and low self confidence. It is a common American phenomenon. Demonstration of wealth and success through materialism. I think it is pathetic, but I guess some people get off on it.

Most countries don't participate in it, including Japan, which is why they never bothered with separate luxury branding of their cars in their own market. Japan is just now getting the Lexus brand, because their culture is becoming more westernized and materialistic too.

based on Z06's mentality, he'd buy a citizen watch for $500 over lets say a 3k Breitling all b/c its just as good but less.

Exactly. Watches aren't my thing, and someone wearing an expensive watch doesn't impress me in the slightest. Breitlings are nice, but there's no way I would spend thousands on one.

What I would do is take $2,500 I didn't spend on the Breitling, invest it properly, and in 20 years buy a yacht with it. Then I've got a yacht, and you've got a... nice watch.

if this was the case then ferrari's, lambo's porsche's, BMWs, MBs wouldnt sell. people with money have different taste and feel that along w/ the $$ comes brand name and image.

Not necessarily. Not everyone who is wealthy feels the need to wear their wallet on their wrist. I guess you haven't met many wealthy people, have you?

you'll never see a wealthy celeb. or sports star driving a malibu or insight. it's all about status and image for those who have the $$ to spend.

Many wealthy celebrities and sports stars who spend money flamboyantly are idiots, or have severe psychological problems, and aren't wealthy for long.

The majority of wealthy people in this country have far more money than your average celebrity or sports star, and you've never heard of them, and in many cases, they don't drive fancy or expensive cars, and they could care less about the badge on the trunk. They'll drive nice cars, but not the most expensive car they could afford.

You should read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" - it will give you good insight in who the wealthy really are, and most of them don't drive Ferraris or Porsches.

if i had my choice right now

Ferrari or Z06 corvette
Id take the ferrari...why??

Gee, would you? So would I! Duh!

Just because I like Corvettes doesn't mean I don't like Ferraris.

b/c corvettes are a dime a dozen and just too common. the ferrari is on another level...

No kidding. It better be for $190k versus $70k.

The difference between you and I is you would buy the Ferrari only because it is less common. I would buy the Ferrari because I think it is a work of mechanical art, and would be fun to drive. If it were as common as the Corvette, I could care less.

in addition who cares if a corvette can keep up w/ a ferrari??

People who buy sports cars for performance, and care about performance. That's who. People who buy sports cars to try to make their dicks look bigger probably don't care.

an evo can kill a G...does that mean its better??

A better performance car? Yes it does mean that. A better overall car? Depends what your needs and priorities are.

i can make a 10k civic faster than both a z06 and a ferrari...so that means its better?? your looking only at performance...

No, I'm looking at the whole car. If all I were looking at was performance, there are a bunch of cheaper cars I could have modified to be faster than a Z06 in a straight line.

for most ppl its the overall picture not just performance they look at...If the AVERAGE JOE truly was an enthusiast and cared soo much for performance, the G35 coupe would be selling better than the BMW 3 series coupe...but GUESS which car you see on the road more often??? The average person does NOT care about the G35 costing less than a 330ci and performing better. they see BMW=quality and image and name....CASE CLOSED!!

Yes, the average American car buyer is NOT a car enthusiast, cares more about how many cupholders a car has, how the radio sounds, and the brand name. It's a sad truth.

So you want to be just like the average American car buyer, and conform with the average Joe?

[Texan1]

First, cool experience with the 911--I am sure its a fast, nimble, lil' biiitch


I buy cars that give you a lot for the money. The G gave me this. I like the Vette, Cobra mustang(some GTs--though they usually need more aggressive wheels/tires/springs to look really good). I don't care that they are Chevy and Ford respectively. I don't care about the "status" of driving a porsche, BMW, Mercedes, lambo or Ferrari.......I would drive one of those cars for the machines that they are, heritage, and driving experience. If they draw attention for me being "rich," I would not like that. If they draw attn for being great perf. cars and I have good taste--thats cool.

There will always be haters---driving a vette--oh, its still a chevy--thats ok--I would drive it with pride--what a great value--even if things needed to be repaired--same thing happens with BMW-and all the others.
Driving the german cars--People will call you a yupie or *** or prissy or anything to make them feel better about not having one--that will never change.

These Pics make me want a Z06 really bad...............

Rant over

[S2020]

nice pics