Test Drive of 335i Sedan 6 Speed

[muscarel]

I went to test drive a 335i sedan 6-speed yesterday and thought I would share my opinions here. I am the former owner of a 2004 G35 Coupe 6mt, which was totalled a few months back (drowned in a flood). I am down to 2 cars - the 335 and G35. I have driven BMWs in the past, but this is the 1st time in a 335 6-speed.

Startup

Press down on clutch, right foot on brake, slide key fob into dash, press button. Silly at best. $500 comfort access package is worth it. This package is similar to that which is standard on the G. Engine is quiet, no growl on startup (unlike my previous G). Steering wheel is meaty. Overall dash layout is unexciting, but not a turnoff. This model had the NAV system, so I would finally get to try out I-drive. I knew after 2 minutes that this system would not be for me and that is with the NAV disk not being available for me to even try the NAV funcitons. The controller itself is uncomfortable to use. Pressing left, right, etc on a round knob feels awkward. Scanning through each selection there is a delay. The system is just slow. Radio functions are buried in the interface (things like adding a preset for a channel). In fact, I tried using the steering wheel buttons to change through presets and nothing happened. I was then told I needed to use I-drive and select something like Entertainment, Radio, FM, Preset, and then I could use the buttons. Someone with a BMW, please tell me that this was bad information I was getting. Changing the radio volume cannot be done via a radio dash knob. So, no passengers can ever touch the radio (good thing maybe?). This annoyed me the most because I was looking forward to having a NAV system in my next car (my coupe had it). I tried the one in the new G and it is 1000x better. Anyway, off to the drive:

Drive

Shifter feels good and crisp (similar to my coupe minus the small vibrations). Clutch travel is LONG with takeup very high. People who complain about the G's clutch woudl be no better off with this one. Clutch is light though, moreso than that of my G. Got on the gas about 1 minute later. Engine has alot of torque and a very linear power delivery. My G had an increase in acceleration at 4k or so, but this car never had that. Just good low end power all the way through. Now, this may be due to the lack of engine or exhaust noise - but I must confess that I wasn't bowled over by the engine. Yes, it had good power, but from hearing people talk about this engine, you would think they were as fast as ferraris. I guess it was all the hype (or the lack of sound) that ruined it. Nonetheless, this thing had more power than you need on the streets. You should not be unhappy with the engine on this car - much more power than my G35.

The steering feel is what separates this car, I believe. It is heavy, firm, and had good direct feel when turning. I drove it on some curvy country roads and it handled wonderfully. Felt very stable, and made you feel like a champ.

The overall exterior shape (this is subjective) is "nice" but not jaw dropping. My coupe always looked great to me, and I loved just walking up to it. Of course, the interior was cheap, so it was a short lived feeling. That being said, the new G interior, IMO, is more attractive than that of the new BMW. The BMW coupe is a little nicer than the sedan but it still doesn't get my juices flowing like my G did.

Overall, I believe a car has to do many things right, including having great looks. This is where I believe the G coupe will win out for me. It will still have those sexy looks, with what I beleive to be a better interior. I get NAV again (and a good one at that) which I wanted. In terms of performance, the overall acceleration difference is minor, although having that low end torque is quite nice. If the coupe comes with the 3.7 liter, I think that will be enough for me to go the G route again.

Overall, the BMW will still have that great solid feel around turns, and a great engine, but am I willing to give up on other things (NAV, nice exhaust sound, great exterior looks) ?? Remember, we are not comparing the BMW to a Kia. The G still has great power and handling, just maybe not as much as that of the BMW.

In terms of lease pricing: A sedan with Premium, Sport, and comfort access (with 1.2k off msrp) works out to $540 per month with 3k down (including tax and refundable security deposit). A similar G might run $80 cheaper per month.

I think that's it. Hope you find this useful.

[TeamG35]

Good write up!

[Picus]

Nice write up. The info the dealer gave you on iDrive/radio is not right though.

The volume can be changed via the steering wheel controls or the knob on the dash, same as any radio. You can mute the radio via the steering wheel controls or the dash knob. Pre-sets must be set through the iDrive menu, but once you have them you can forever select them via the steering wheel.

Radio inputs (fm/am, cd, aux, sat) are all switchable via the steering wheel. Actually, come to think of it, I've never used the iDrive for the radio, ipod, sat, or cd once. The '07/'08 also have 7 buttons you can program to do anything you like.. (last nav destination, last sat channel, preset climate conditions, etc... ). So ya, bad info you were getting

iDrive can be slow, definitely slower than other systems; the benefit of course is you have total control over the customization of the car, which is nice. Love it or hate it I guess.

[clokwork]

Though I appreciate your review, I cant say I necessarily agree with a lot of what you said. I do understand it's all subjective though, so I respect it for that.

Originally Posted by muscarel

I was looking forward to having a NAV system in my next car (my coupe had it). I tried the one in the new G and it is 1000x better. Anyway, off to the drive:

Agreed

Originally Posted by muscarel

but I must confess that I wasn't bowled over by the engine. Yes, it had good power, but from hearing people talk about this engine, you would think they were as fast as ferraris.

You did say at the end that people wouldnt be unsatisfied with the motor and I agree with that, but I never really heard anybody saying the motor was wonderful enough to have ferrari in the same sentence

Originally Posted by muscarel

the new G interior, IMO, is more attractive than that of the new BMW.

I dunno man , thats a tough call there!

Originally Posted by muscarel

The steering feel is what separates this car, I believe. It is heavy, firm, and had good direct feel when turning.

I would definitely agree there. No contest

Originally Posted by muscarel

In terms of performance, the overall acceleration difference is minor, although having that low end torque is quite nice. If the coupe comes with the 3.7 liter, I think that will be enough for me to go the G route again.

I can't agree with you there. the acceleration difference was very well noticeable imo. Even after having my wife drive it, she was wowed by it as well. the extra .2 litres on the G isnt going to make up for that large gap in torque though it will be able to win in the hp department. To get the G to its point in utopia, it needs to be in the latter portions of the 4000 rpm range. what I love about the 335i is that even keeping the car under 3000 rpms can deliver a great woosh of acceleration. I do understand we are talking about two different beats though. This motor does have two turbos assisting.

The looks I gotta say are subjective, and I cant wait to see, in person, what the new coupe is looking like. (Anyone else going to the NY autoshow?) The 335i has definitely grown on me and I cant stop going to the site to build one. An empolyee here has one and the interior selections are beautiful. I hope the new G offers a good variety of interior/exterior selections.

I would agree that the G is the better value though. With the BMW you are definitely paying a premium. If you can justify the costs (which is usually the issue) I'd say its worth it.

Originally Posted by muscarel

I think that's it. Hope you find this useful.

I did

[muscarel]

Originally Posted by clokwork

You did say at the end that people wouldnt be unsatisfied with the motor and I agree with that, but I never really heard anybody saying the motor was wonderful enough to have ferrari in the same sentence


I dunno man , thats a tough call there!

Maybe it was perception then. People tend to speak so highly about it that I may have expected more (the magazines too). I guess it's a tradeoff, low end power vs. high end power. The G seemed to have good low end torque yet still had a satisfying rush as you went to redline. The BMW trades the high rpm rush for LOTS of low end torque. To each his own. And to others reading this - if I sounded as if the engine was not powerful, that is not true - the car is plenty fast.

In terms of looks, you are right - it is definitely subjective. The sport wheels make the car look much better IMO. Without them, the car looks very average. I will definitely get the sports package if I get this car.

In terms of overall acceleration, the current G is only 1.9 seconds or so slower to 120 mph (based on tests by the same people - yes, on different days, so not completely accurate). That's not much to begin with. If the 3.7 liter brings that difference to under a second, I can't see overall acceleration being a deciding factor. The BMW will feel much more powerful in the liow rpm and that may be something people find attractive in terms of performance. I have 3 dynos that I have seen - 2 for the 335 and 1 for the G. The G was done on a dynapack, from which I understand can have exaggerated HP numbers of 20 or so. The numbers below do not show this correction:

1. 2k rpm - BMW1 - 100, BMW 2 - N/A, G35 1 - N/A
2. 3k rpm - BMW1 - 165, BMW 2 - 150, G35 1 - 138
3. 4k rpm - BMW1 - 215, BMW 2 - 200, G35 1 - 185
4. 5k rpm - BMW1 - 260, BMW 2 - 240, G35 1 - 242
5. 6k rpm - BMW1 - 260, BMW 2 - 260, G35 1 - 275
6. 7k rpm - BMW1 - 230, BMW 2 - 210, G35 1 - 280

The BMW drops off after 5k, and signififcantly so after 6k. If we correct the G35's numbers, we could see a significant shortage at low rpm.

[muscarel]

By the way, I just edited and corrected the numbers in my previous post. Sorry for the initially bad information. The new numbers show the G's deficit down low and how it is close to the same starting at 5k and then has the advantage for the last 1,000 rpm only (although a big difference). By the way, the G dyno says 270 HP (remember, uncorrected for dynapack) at 7,500 rpm - which is still a strong number showing very little drop off up high.

[clokwork]

Thanks for the retort. I mean no offense in my opinions. About the hp numbers for the dynos though, they seem pretty high for the G imo. Especially for a stock one at 280hp dynoed, but hey its likely reality.

Here is a 335i dyno I am referencing


and 2007 G35 dyno

These numbers show torque also

1. 2k rpm - BMW1 - 100/270, G35 1 - 110/205
2. 3k rpm - BMW1 - 170/300, G35 1 - 140/240
3. 4k rpm - BMW1 - 220/290, G35 1 - 185/245
4. 5k rpm - BMW1 - 260/275, G35 1 - 242/255
5. 6k rpm - BMW1 - 260/230, G35 1 - 275/240
6. 7k rpm - BMW1 - 230/140, G35 1 - 280/210

These numbers are very similar to yours, and may have come from the same sources.

Although running to redline is definitely fun, for the 335i, it may be wise to shift ~6000 rpm to stay in the power band. The max power is missed for the 335i between 5k and 6k rpms.

to conclude my net/magazine racing

275hp, 299ft lb: 335i
284hp, 255ft lb: 07 G35

G35 is still the better value, but as for daily driving and even racing, imho, the 335i takes it. It wont be rev happy as the G35 is though. Though im scared modding a turbo due to factory warranty, the $1300 mods for the 335i are making that monster insane. Unfortunately, you cant do that with a VQ motor if you have the mod bug.

I still havent driven one of the new sedans in a manual. I definitely plan on seeing how that experience is i.e. handling, acceleration, etc..

[muscarel]

I tried replying but for some reason it didn't show up....

Anyway, yes, I used the same dynos as you have pasted. One other one from bimmerfest that had lower Hp numbers than that of Automobile. For the G dyno, you need to subtract some power as that dyno supposedly shows higher numbers than a dynojet.

The 335 is still faster, of course, but I believe the 3.7 will make it a close enough match where it shouldnt be the deciding factor. Tests show the 335 doing the 1/4 mile in 13.5-13.7 or so at 103-105 mph. The G is 13.9-14.0 at 101-103 mph. If the larger engine takes a tenth or 2 off of that time and adds a mile or 2 per hour, I can't see it being so large a difference. Of course, if all that low end torque is your ultimate goal, the G will not compare to the 335.

In terms of racing....In a race, once you get out of 1st gear, your car is running from 5k-7.5k rpm, so high end HP is very important. It's not all about low end power.

I can't wait to test drive the coupe (and the 335 again when the time comes). Deciding between the 2 will be tough for me.

[clokwork]

I hear you. Id like it if the new coupe is comparable or even *gasps* faster and as good in the corners as the 335i. I dont know that .2 litres can give that big of a difference motorwise, but I will still hold onto that hope. I believe you and I are in the same boat, if not similar. I am torn between the two cars but addicted to the daily driving feel of the 335i. I will be in NY the week the of the G coupe debut. I hope to hear good news!

[muscarel]

Speaking of the Auto Show - The site says it starts April 6th but the press gets in on the 4th and 5th. So, maybe we'll see some pics a couple of days early.

[Picus]

The problem with the 335i in the 1/4 mile (which will likely plague the G as well should it get more displacement) is that it is tough to get traction when launching. Those 13.5-13.7 times are all with stock tires (and rightfully so, makes no sense to compare modded to unmodded), but there are 4 runs on dragtimeslips.com with the 335i with high performance summers, 13.1, 13.2, 13.2, 13.25 all over 107mph traps. The G coupe will probably be similar (maybe a coupe tenths off) if it gets the 3.7L (and people put on better tires).

As for the engine in the 335i itself, the speed is very deceiving since it's so linear. One of the pros *and* cons of an inline 6. The passing times are a good illustration of that. The VQ is a much thrashier engine, which some people prefer. Neither is better in regards to behavior, just different.

The dyno thing is too hard to compare because we all know dyno's show huge variations based on the dyno you're using, the transmission, etc. For example, AT 335i's have to be dyno'd in 4th gear, which skews the results.

I personally think the G coupe is going to have the 3.5L engine for at least the first year. I hope I am wrong. Even so, if you aren't planning on working on the engine the price alone will make a good case for it. One benefit the 335i has is the potential, which unfortunately really isn't there on the VQ.

[John105]

Originally Posted by muscarel

Of course, the interior was cheap, so it was a short lived feeling. That being said, the new G interior, IMO, is more attractive than that of the new BMW.

Hope you find this useful.

Not particularly. *LOL*

[Klubbheads]

Originally Posted by picus112

The problem with the 335i in the 1/4 mile (which will likely plague the G as well should it get more displacement) is that it is tough to get traction when launching. Those 13.5-13.7 times are all with stock tires (and rightfully so, makes no sense to compare modded to unmodded), but there are 4 runs on dragtimeslips.com with the 335i with high performance summers, 13.1, 13.2, 13.2, 13.25 all over 107mph traps. The G coupe will probably be similar (maybe a coupe tenths off) if it gets the 3.7L (and people put on better tires).

As for the engine in the 335i itself, the speed is very deceiving since it's so linear. One of the pros *and* cons of an inline 6. The passing times are a good illustration of that. The VQ is a much thrashier engine, which some people prefer. Neither is better in regards to behavior, just different.

The dyno thing is too hard to compare because we all know dyno's show huge variations based on the dyno you're using, the transmission, etc. For example, AT 335i's have to be dyno'd in 4th gear, which skews the results.

I personally think the G coupe is going to have the 3.5L engine for at least the first year. I hope I am wrong. Even so, if you aren't planning on working on the engine the price alone will make a good case for it. One benefit the 335i has is the potential, which unfortunately really isn't there on the VQ.

+1.

[muscarel]

Originally Posted by picus112

The problem with the 335i in the 1/4 mile (which will likely plague the G as well should it get more displacement) is that it is tough to get traction when launching. Those 13.5-13.7 times are all with stock tires (and rightfully so, makes no sense to compare modded to unmodded), but there are 4 runs on dragtimeslips.com with the 335i with high performance summers, 13.1, 13.2, 13.2, 13.25 all over 107mph traps. The G coupe will probably be similar (maybe a coupe tenths off) if it gets the 3.7L (and people put on better tires).

As for the engine in the 335i itself, the speed is very deceiving since it's so linear. One of the pros *and* cons of an inline 6. The passing times are a good illustration of that. The VQ is a much thrashier engine, which some people prefer. Neither is better in regards to behavior, just different.

The dyno thing is too hard to compare because we all know dyno's show huge variations based on the dyno you're using, the transmission, etc. For example, AT 335i's have to be dyno'd in 4th gear, which skews the results.

I personally think the G coupe is going to have the 3.5L engine for at least the first year. I hope I am wrong. Even so, if you aren't planning on working on the engine the price alone will make a good case for it. One benefit the 335i has is the potential, which unfortunately really isn't there on the VQ.

That is why I quoted 0-120 times also. They are not so far off. 0-60 is becoming a bad gauge of performance due to large horsepower cars being so common. Traction becomes the biggest factor, ala STI, EVO, where they have great 0-60 times but only ok 60-100 times. 0-120 and 60-120 in particular are not that far off on these cars.

60' times are not particularly good for the G, which will always kill their 1/4 mile times.

In terms of interior, we can agree to disagree. I find the interior of the BMW ok, but boring. The buttons and knobs feel nice to the touch, but they felt nice in the G as well. This weekend I'm off to test the TL and Infiniti 5at (for a friend). He owns a 330xi, and is leaning toward BMW. I'm interested to see his opinion of the car.

[muscarel]

Originally Posted by picus112

The problem with the 335i in the 1/4 mile (which will likely plague the G as well should it get more displacement) is that it is tough to get traction when launching. Those 13.5-13.7 times are all with stock tires (and rightfully so, makes no sense to compare modded to unmodded), but there are 4 runs on dragtimeslips.com with the 335i with high performance summers, 13.1, 13.2, 13.2, 13.25 all over 107mph traps. The G coupe will probably be similar (maybe a coupe tenths off) if it gets the 3.7L (and people put on better tires).

Wow. I had pilot sports on my car (summer tires) and ran 14.6 at 97 at the track. Since the times you are quoting show 107 mph trap speeds, that is an indicator of higher HP, not better traction. 335s are running 103-105