So what does all of this mean exactly?

[UltimateGee27]

Nissan sells a car for 70k. It puts up Lambo numbers in regards to 0-60 and 1/4 mile times....with 6 less cylinders. The Nissan is not made of carbon fiber and has an interior that is every day practical, so it obviously weighs alot more.... How does a 70k car match up with Italians best supercars? I dont understand how 3800 lbs car is doing 0-60 in mid 3sec range and 11 sec quater mile

It only makes sense that you dont compare the GT-R to Ferrari or Lamborghini...you are suppose to compare it to another 6 cylinder beast with twin turbos..the 911 turbo. But the 911 turbo weighs only 3400lbs, and has more hp and more torque but .2 less in displacement.

If the GTR numbers are correct than some simple mods to the engine and you have a 10 sec every day driver

Now thats crazy to believe. Good job Nissan, they deserve it, they been designing this vehicle for years and i for one can honestly say that i would have never expected these kind of numbers. When they originally said their target was 911 turbo numbers you know everyone doubted them....the 911 is so sick. But now that we have proof from magazine test drives i guess there is a new king of the road coming to the US.

So i guess my question is.....are italian/german automakers ripping people off at the end of the day? If Nissan can build a "super car" which competes directly with a 120k+ porsche 911 turbo for 50k less does this mean something? This is the first time a Japanese automaker is directly competes and over performs a German icon. Look at the SLR and Gallardo...those two cars arent going to be able to touch a gt-r

oh yea P.S i cant wait to see this car in other colors......i hope they release that bad *** blue color that we saw on the R34

[gspotter]

The Japanese can out-engineer anybody. And yes, the Italian/German makers have been ripping people off for years. Never been impressed by Lamborghini's technology- all you're paying for is looks and the name.

[Jon913D]

Originally Posted by gspotter

...- all you're paying for is looks and the name.

and most would argue that makes all the difference.

You can build a Honda to run 10 sec 1/4 mile... or buy a suzuki sport bike (gsxr1000, et al)...

[G-WannaBe]

You hit the crux of probably over 1,000,000,000 arguements over the last 10 + years: Do you get more for paying more? BMW, Audi, Porsche, (not even hitting the bull or the horse) all make great cars, but are they that much better then their competition that they are worth (LOTS OF) extra green on the sticker? This will never be decided and will forever remain opinion; its fit, finish, feel, quality, - all very subjective measurements.

10 years ago I would think you could make a strong arguement that some models and designs paid a lot more attention to performance as well as making a great DD out of the same car, but today everyone has raised the bar on what they produce, in part due to those that set the standards in the first place. While those extra dollars IMO bought you something special and maybe even worth the extra price 10 years ago, that is not the case today. I still can't see the extra monies for the 335, for example, over the G37. I can see the difference in the 2 cars, and agree they are not exactly the same - but the difference is not worth the extra 5 + large just to put the German in my driveway.

Now that you can buy a Z06, Shelby GT500, or the KR, or the Viper, or the Lexus ISF, RS4, S8, M3, M5, Jag XK, all under 90k, all over 400 HP, some over 500, the GTR will face some tough competition for buyers cash.

[N50]

Originally Posted by G-WannaBe

You hit the crux of probably over 1,000,000,000 arguements over the last 10 + years: Do you get more for paying more? BMW, Audi, Porsche, (not even hitting the bull or the horse) all make great cars, but are they that much better then their competition that they are worth (LOTS OF) extra green on the sticker? This will never be decided and will forever remain opinion; its fit, finish, feel, quality, - all very subjective measurements.

10 years ago I would think you could make a strong arguement that some models and designs paid a lot more attention to performance as well as making a great DD out of the same car, but today everyone has raised the bar on what they produce, in part due to those that set the standards in the first place. While those extra dollars IMO bought you something special and maybe even worth the extra price 10 years ago, that is not the case today. I still can't see the extra monies for the 335, for example, over the G37. I can see the difference in the 2 cars, and agree they are not exactly the same - but the difference is not worth the extra 5 + large just to put the German in my driveway.

Now that you can buy a Z06, Shelby GT500, or the KR, or the Viper, or the Lexus ISF, RS4, S8, M3, M5, Jag XK, all under 90k, all over 400 HP, some over 500, the GTR will face some tough competition for buyers cash.

It's hard to know sometimes whether you are really getting a good bang for your buck. For example, Audi's, imo, have the best interiors in the business. Yet you'll find where BMW's are generally more expensive than Audi's. Why? Demand and prestige.

If it were all about quality and interior build etc., than Porsche would not be where they are today (interiors aren't worthy of their price, imo). It is all about the marketing. Granted, Porsche lives up to their name performance wise. Then you have to ask, "How is it that Porsche came to be known for building fine performance cars?" Strong marketing and a good enough product to back it up. That is, until Porsche became so popular, demand went through the roof, supplies dropped, prices went up, and there you have your prestige! The prices are now marked up because they can ask for those prices and people will pay without batting an eye. Just to own one of these cars makes everyone else on the road give you the evil eye. All because of one itty bitty word..."Porsche"

Nissan on the other hand will never be able to do this with the GT-R. For example, the Corvette is a lightning quick car but it carries little prestige. If I want people to know what I'm doing with my life, I wouldn't buy a Corvette. A BMW? Yes...even if it is slower. Much like you'll find people who will buy a SLK AMG (for the AMG prestige) instead of a GT-R. Partially because, especially with most Americans, GT-R means very little and Mercedes AMG means so much.

If you ask me. I want a car no one else has. The GT-R will be that car...even if it carries little prestige.

[RBull]

Originally Posted by G-WannaBe

You hit the crux of probably over 1,000,000,000 arguements over the last 10 + years: Do you get more for paying more? BMW, Audi, Porsche, (not even hitting the bull or the horse) all make great cars, but are they that much better then their competition that they are worth (LOTS OF) extra green on the sticker? This will never be decided and will forever remain opinion; its fit, finish, feel, quality, - all very subjective measurements.

10 years ago I would think you could make a strong arguement that some models and designs paid a lot more attention to performance as well as making a great DD out of the same car, but today everyone has raised the bar on what they produce, in part due to those that set the standards in the first place. While those extra dollars IMO bought you something special and maybe even worth the extra price 10 years ago, that is not the case today. I still can't see the extra monies for the 335, for example, over the G37. I can see the difference in the 2 cars, and agree they are not exactly the same - but the difference is not worth the extra 5 + large just to put the German in my driveway.

Now that you can buy a Z06, Shelby GT500, or the KR, or the Viper, or the Lexus ISF, RS4, S8, M3, M5, Jag XK, all under 90k, all over 400 HP, some over 500, the GTR will face some tough competition for buyers cash.

I'm not surprised to see you're still on that band wagon. That's a fair point but I think it's a given that all cars in every category now face stiff competition for buyers. I can't think of any that don't. If you're trying to say the GTR won't compete well that's something completely different.

To me its important to note the numbers we're reading for the GTR are near identical as the Z06. It's also noteworthy to compare prices on these which are also expected to be similar. In stock form the GTR will be a great car but I'm not so confident it will be the king maker. A very interesting question is what will be the realistic potential of the car with quality mods.

[G-WannaBe]

Originally Posted by RBull

I'm not surprised to see you're still on that band wagon. That's a fair point but I think it's a given that all cars in every category now face stiff competition for buyers. I can't think of any that don't. If you're trying to say the GTR won't compete well that's something completely different.

To me its important to note the numbers we're reading for the GTR are near identical as the Z06. It's also noteworthy to compare prices on these which are also expected to be similar. In stock form the GTR will be a great car but I'm not so confident it will be the king maker. A very interesting question is what will be the realistic potential of the car with quality mods.

I DO think this car will place well in this field, (and I probably left out a few.) From nothing more then what I have read, I think it could go toe to toe with almost any of the cars listed. Maybe even outperform them all.

For the performance and cost, all of these compete in this segment, and while the performance target might have been the 911, this car now lives near some Execlent competition. Other buyers will cross shop unless badge (completely agree with Nfive0 here about americans wanting to buy prestiege) means more then price or top performance. It will be a great choice in the category, but I still think it will be a hard climb above $80k (if that is where it lands in final pricing).

To a lot of us on this board, myself included, the name and the history can jump the pond, we make the connection to its roots, and we wont mind as much as others who dont value it to pay more for a nissan then any other nissan (or infiniti for that matter) that has come over here.

If a lot of GT-R followers have the cash, this will be nearly impossible to land a copy, I am not so sure that 1) they do, and 2) those that have the money don't value the other brands higher, and therefor may see these competitors more worthy of such a purchase price.

It will be very interesting to watch, and i hope someday I can afford a sunday driver on this list. I would have to put the GT-R right up there near the top, but some of those cars have some great write ups....

Knowing my luck, I might some day roll off the lot with a G37, only to be passed that same day by a GT-R. I guess I will have to find what I can afford and be happpy with it knowing it is a great car by itself. I wonder where they might price the G37TT........ if they even make one!

[psedog]

Originally Posted by G-WannaBe

I I wonder where they might price the G37TT........ if they even make one!

Wait for a crashed GT-R and get it's 3.8TT

[Mr_Ryte]

Originally Posted by N50

Why? Demand and prestige.

Bingo.

The simple fact of the matter is this: there are certainly intangibles that certain marques have that make them more desirable than another. Perfect example: Aston Martin. Check this bad boy out:
http://www.astonmartin.com/astonmart...html/index.htm
How many of you would dare say that you would NOT get the DBS if you had the money?

The point of marketing is to create a "JUST GOTTA HAVE IT" in each person. As for whether or not the item or service is truly worth it is irrevelant. There are other cars that can outperform the Aston Martin DBS, Nissan GTR, BMW M6, Ferrari F430, etc. Heck, that same mindset applies to just about every industry to hotels, restaurants, instruments, TVs, stereos.....you name it.

That's why there will always be the endless debate as to which is the better value between the Infiniti G and the BMW 3-series.

As long as the purchaser feels that the item or service rendered was worth the price paid then there's little else to be said. If a person feels that the 911 turbo is worth the extra $50k-$60k over the Nissan GTR just because of the Porsche emblem then more power to them.

[acerys]

I am really disppointed when I think of the weight and look at the engine bay. It seems that Nissan is introducing a whole new sporty model to compete against serious super car out there by just putting a high power VQ engine and AWD system on a restyled G coupe without installing a strut bar under the hood. Nissan definitely knows how Light-weight and rigidity is crucial to a high performance sport car,but what they have done? Really fed of Nissan's marketing effort done before the production model revealed officially,especially when a disppointed product is delivered. My next sport car will not be a Nissan if no effort to change these aspects.

[dec55]

It goes 0 to 60 in 3.5 secs. Hits almost 200 mph.....I have a feeling I will be
happy with this car.. Thats faster than the BMW 335i TT and the Mustang GT,
and recent model Corvettes and Porsches......



Frankly it will finally feel odd not to worry about these cars passing me if or when I get this car...

[Adon]

Originally Posted by gspotter

The Japanese can out-engineer anybody.

you're joking right ?

Germans absolutely dominate automotive technology and are the masters of it, they have been since around World War 2, and it hasn't slowed down since. And I'm saying this without even bringing up any specific points to back up my argument, because there's really no argument, bottom line is that they know their shlt, and all the rest of the world can do is sit back and watch in awe. Not just automotive stuff, but they also are world leaders in a few other tech fields.

oh and by the way, Nissan had to go over to Britain and have Cosworth do most of the engineering for their turbo setup and a bit of engine work, so I feel comfortable in saying that all Nissan brought to the table was a decent engine and had Cosworth fill in the blanks...

For the R-34 GTR they wouldnt have been able to make it such a monster if they didnt equip it with a German Getrag transmission and I think ATESSA AWD system.

[dec55]

Originally Posted by Adon

you're joking right ?

Germans absolutely dominate automotive technology and are the masters of it, they have been since around World War 2, and it hasn't slowed down since. And I'm saying this without even bringing up any specific points to back up my argument, because there's really no argument, bottom line is that they know their shlt, and all the rest of the world can do is sit back and watch in awe. Not just automotive stuff, but they also are world leaders in a few other tech fields.

oh and by the way, Nissan had to go over to Britain and have Cosworth do most of the engineering for their turbo setup and a bit of engine work, so I feel comfortable in saying that all Nissan did is bring a decent engine and had Cosworth fill in the blanks...

Giving props to the Germans should be noted....but I have to remind you that
the Japanese have a uncanny way of entering a market and making highly
reliable products that are competitive,reliable and usually more affordable than
the competition. To this date Supercars don't really have affordability and
low maintenence in their image to the public. This may change as competition
grows more international in the Supercar and Exotic market.


The Japanese have also proven they can dominate and excelerate technology
as good or better than the German counter parts in tech fields also. This started in the 70's and 80's and continues on to today.


When it comes to Nissan finally coming up with the GTR to compete with
their German friends.....



This can only be better for the buying public.

[G-WannaBe]

Originally Posted by psedog

Wait for a crashed GT-R and get it's 3.8TT

LMAO, good idea, thanks for the morning pick me up, that cant be a long wait when you think that somewhere a guy will buy one, bring it home, and give it to his 16 just to let him drive it into the garage.... with the sticker still on the window, 10 feet and no worries right???

Happened to a new Shelby...

http://www.break.com/index/son_crash...to_garage.html



That is an old clip, but makes me laugh and cry all at the same time. Glad it happened to a Stang, but i feel for the guy.

[UltimateGee27]

Originally Posted by Adon

you're joking right ?

Germans absolutely dominate automotive technology and are the masters of it, they have been since around World War 2, and it hasn't slowed down since. And I'm saying this without even bringing up any specific points to back up my argument, because there's really no argument, bottom line is that they know their shlt, and all the rest of the world can do is sit back and watch in awe. Not just automotive stuff, but they also are world leaders in a few other tech fields.

oh and by the way, Nissan had to go over to Britain and have Cosworth do most of the engineering for their turbo setup and a bit of engine work, so I feel comfortable in saying that all Nissan brought to the table was a decent engine and had Cosworth fill in the blanks...

For the R-34 GTR they wouldnt have been able to make it such a monster if they didnt equip it with a German Getrag transmission and I think ATESSA AWD system.

Dude are you german? I feel as tho you took that offensive? Why r u hating on the GTR? This car is amazing for the money are you kidding me!!!!