handling differences with bmw

[chrisbel]

This is NOT meant to start any sort of Infiniti/BMW war - I've just noticed a few specific handling differences and wonder is anyone smarter than me knows why?

Prior to my 07 G jouney, I owned an 05 325i. Before buying the G, I test drove both and, within the limits of a test drive, found them both pretty comparable. Since buying the G, I've had obviously more chance to compare. First off, the G is clearly more powerful - I hit the gas on an on-ramp and I'm flying. It's great.

But there a few specific scenarios/locations where the G fails to inspire me the way the BMW did. This one is probably the most noticeable - an uphill road with a left hand curve almost at the top where it starts to flatten out. I used to go at a pretty good clip up the road, maybe 45, slow slightly at the curve, then accerate out of it and get up to about 50 before cresting the hill and heading down. In the BMW, this felt great - the car felt light and crisp in it's handling and there was something (that I can't put my finger on) exhilerating about the manuever.

In the G though I feel nothing, it accelerates like nobody's business up the hill but when I make the curve and hit the gas abit as before, it just feels..normal. No drama, no excitement. It feels heavy where the BMW felt light and nimble.

I really enjoy my car, so no flaming please, I just wonder if anyone know what factors mught make the experiences so different.

[fecurtis]

Its those Germans man.

[Klubbheads]

1. 07 G35 is heavier than a 05 325
2. 325 was probably sport package thus had stiffer springs and bars
3. It is a BMW it will "feel" very different than any car out there
4. Handling is not about taking an onramp/offramp, change of direction is a more accurate way to compare handling (slalom speeds)
5. BMW has been building those types of cars for decades where as infiniti started in 03.
6. It is a BMW.
7. U should have gotten sport not journey.

[///M32G35]

I would chalk it up to weight, weight distribution, and suspension. Infiniti is a very comparable brand, and for most enthusiasts and laymen the difference is not very noticeable. The E46 3 series with the 6MT has perfect weight distribution, at 50%/50%. The AT is near perfect, at 50.8%/49.2%. The weight distribution on the '07 G35 sedan is 53%/47%. It might not seem like much, but to someone that has been driving a car with perfect balance it is quite noticeable. Throw some more weight and a different suspension into the mix and it adds up to quite a difference.

[Adon]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Its those Germans man.

that says it all!!

The details and specifics are if you look at historical facts that Hitler invested huuuuge amounts of money into research and development for his German war machine. From planes, to cars to tanks, to submarines to warships.... unbelieveable sums of money distributed in those fields all helped Germany become the most technologically advanced country in the world, and they've been on top ever since. Recently the Japanese have taken over as world leader in the electronics department, like TV's, etc... but as far as cars go for any other country to begin catching up to German automobiles it would take 10 years, and in those 10 years German vehicle research and development would have to be put on hold and no progress made

[chilibowl]

Originally Posted by Adon

that says it all!!

The details and specifics are if you look at historical facts that Hitler invested huuuuge amounts of money into research and development for his German war machine. From planes, to cars to tanks, to submarines to warships.... unbelieveable sums of money distributed in those fields all helped Germany become the most technologically advanced country in the world, and they've been on top ever since. Recently the Japanese have taken over as world leader in the electronics department, like TV's, etc... but as far as cars go for any other country to begin catching up to German automobiles it would take 10 years, and in those 10 years German vehicle research and development would have to be put on hold and no progress made

Damn, alot of money spent to create electrical nannies f*cking up on ALOT of BMWs. Read up on the horror stories of the 2003 7-Series. Read up on some SERIOUS Mercedes issues from 2001-2004. Yeah, its those Germans man !

By the way, to the OP, you should of gotten the 6MT which is automatically the Sport version. You seem like a true car enthusiast, and a DRIVER. Why in the f*ck would you get a Journey version? The handling differences between the Journey and the Sport are pretty damn noticeable. The Sport version of the 07 Sedan handles better than my 06 6MT coupe, I kid you not.

[chrisbel]

Originally Posted by chilibowl

By the way, to the OP, you should of gotten the 6MT which is automatically the Sport version. You seem like a true car enthusiast, and a DRIVER. Why in the f*ck would you get a Journey version? The handling differences between the Journey and the Sport are pretty damn noticeable. The Sport version of the 07 Sedan handles better than my 06 6MT coupe, I kid you not.

Honestly, I don't know why I didn't look at the sport version - I should have. My BMW didn't have the sport options and I wasn't aware of missing anything. Also, although I love driving I'm not a hardcore driver pushing the limits so I just didn't think I needed the extra edge.

As for the 6MT, two reasons - traffic and a wife who doesn't do MT. Although she never drive it, so I may go back to MT on my next car. (and sport option....)

[chrisbel]

Originally Posted by Klubbheads

1. 07 G35 is heavier than a 05 325
2. 325 was probably sport package thus had stiffer springs and bars
3. It is a BMW it will "feel" very different than any car out there
4. Handling is not about taking an onramp/offramp, change of direction is a more accurate way to compare handling (slalom speeds)
5. BMW has been building those types of cars for decades where as infiniti started in 03.
6. It is a BMW.
7. U should have gotten sport not journey.

1. and it does feel like it
2. Actually, wasn't sport package
3. Feel is definetly different
4. Yes, next time I have to find twisty roads near dealership (although I do enjoy the power on the on-ramps)
5. Yup.
6. yup
7. yup.

[B L U E S L A T E]

Originally Posted by Klubbheads

7. U should have gotten sport not journey.

It makes a world of difference.

Besides, the seat on the Journey gives no support while taking corners!!! Trust me, I know this because I had Journey G35 as a rental for 2 weeks. LOL

[Deang35c6]

Originally Posted by Adon

that says it all!!

The details and specifics are if you look at historical facts that Hitler invested huuuuge amounts of money into research and development for his German war machine. From planes, to cars to tanks, to submarines to warships.... unbelieveable sums of money distributed in those fields all helped Germany become the most technologically advanced country in the world, and they've been on top ever since. Recently the Japanese have taken over as world leader in the electronics department, like TV's, etc... but as far as cars go for any other country to begin catching up to German automobiles it would take 10 years, and in those 10 years German vehicle research and development would have to be put on hold and no progress made

Dude,

Where have you been for the last twenty years? The Japanese have been on top on the electronics game for a least twenty years. When I'm looking at buyig anything electronic, I'm not even looking in the direction of Europe. Anyway, as far as cars, BMW can't touch the Japanese as far as electronics. Hell, they have audible sensors for backing up, while Infiniti has cameras. If you want a good driver's car, then the BMW is for you, but it won't be tech laden like the Japanese counterparts. In stock form, the Infiniti will give you 8/10 the driving experience as the BMW. After some suspension mods, it will be on par.

I wouldn't use that "superior" philosophy for ALL German carmakers either. I don't think the driving experience the OP craves applies to Mercedes, Volkswagons, or Audis.

[VQdriver]

i'd be generalizing, but the japanese look up to german automotive engineering. i've been watching best motoring videos for the last 4 years or so and in every section that looks in depth at a popular japanese model, the design manager mentions that their benchmark design target was another popular german car. for instance, they compared the skyline R34 (nismo) to the porsche 911 turbo (996). the subaru STI spec C was targeted specifically at the previous gen M3. both these cars were tested and tuned on the nurburgring. the latest example would be the current GTR vs the porsche 911 turbo (997). you could find magazine spy photos with them side by side. imo, i think it's great that the japanese are starting to catch german engineering. the race drivers blamed the "gentleman's agreement" on the delay of japanese development. you'll see, the latest breed of japanese sportscars are becoming monsters with no HP limit and big brakes to handle the increased weight and stiffness of new chassis (german trend?) they are becoming more sophisticated in general.

that being said, i drove my dad's 1yr old bmw 550i and was truly impressed. it has big power and TORQUE! brakes felt firm and strong! i thought the brakes on my '05 coupe were "decent," but compared to the heavier bimmer they felt downright weak and spongy. bmw brakes look like they are made to stop ford expeditions just by appearance and size. the chassis felt very balanced and rigid. i must say, the G feels similarly balanced, but the bigger, heavier 5 series just feels a little more planted down for some reason. perhaps their anti roll bars are more aggressive. without knowing the specs i do believe (by the seat of my pants) that their cars have more rebound dampening and that might be the key why they handle everyday driving situations better without a super stiff ride. every BMW is tuned on the nurburgring's elevation changes and road undulations. i've only driven my dad's car 3 or 4 times. everytime i drove it it made me want to get a bimmer. i'm a diehard nissan fan, but that's the way i feel. japan is coming around the corner, but they need to stop reverse engineering and start innovating to truly be superior in every aspect of automotive design.

[Klubbheads]

^great post.

[Klubbheads]

^great post.

[shabarivas]

... electronic suspensions... how about a Lancer EVO? euerope aint got isht on that

[Deang35c6]

Originally Posted by VQdriver

i'd be generalizing, but the japanese look up to german automotive engineering. i've been watching best motoring videos for the last 4 years or so and in every section that looks in depth at a popular japanese model, the design manager mentions that their benchmark design target was another popular german car. for instance, they compared the skyline R34 (nismo) to the porsche 911 turbo (996). the subaru STI spec C was targeted specifically at the previous gen M3. both these cars were tested and tuned on the nurburgring. the latest example would be the current GTR vs the porsche 911 turbo (997). you could find magazine spy photos with them side by side. imo, i think it's great that the japanese are starting to catch german engineering. the race drivers blamed the "gentleman's agreement" on the delay of japanese development. you'll see, the latest breed of japanese sportscars are becoming monsters with no HP limit and big brakes to handle the increased weight and stiffness of new chassis (german trend?) they are becoming more sophisticated in general.

that being said, i drove my dad's 1yr old bmw 550i and was truly impressed. it has big power and TORQUE! brakes felt firm and strong! i thought the brakes on my '05 coupe were "decent," but compared to the heavier bimmer they felt downright weak and spongy. bmw brakes look like they are made to stop ford expeditions just by appearance and size. the chassis felt very balanced and rigid. i must say, the G feels similarly balanced, but the bigger, heavier 5 series just feels a little more planted down for some reason. perhaps their anti roll bars are more aggressive. without knowing the specs i do believe (by the seat of my pants) that their cars have more rebound dampening and that might be the key why they handle everyday driving situations better without a super stiff ride. every BMW is tuned on the nurburgring's elevation changes and road undulations. i've only driven my dad's car 3 or 4 times. everytime i drove it it made me want to get a bimmer. i'm a diehard nissan fan, but that's the way i feel. japan is coming around the corner, but they need to stop reverse engineering and start innovating to truly be superior in every aspect of automotive design.

Great post, but you shouldn't compare a '05 Coupe to a 1-year old 550i. There's about a $20k difference between the two cars, so everything should feel better. The M45 sport vs 550i would be a better comparison. Are you still on the stock suspension? I dumped my stock suspension a long time ago and I now have Bilstien coilovers.

Nissan did skimp out on the suspension of the first gen G35; however, I don't think money was the total issue here. Since Infiniti changed their image, they've had issues finding their niche or demographics. Think about it, your typical 3-series owner will be anywhere from 25 to 40 years old. BMW knows this and knows just how to tune the suspension for that group. Infiniti had no clue who would be buying the Sedan or Coupe, so they stayed pretty safe as far as suspension tuning was concerned. Even though the suspension wasn't that stiff, some of our "older" buyers still complained about it. You never hear a 3-series owner complaining about ride stiffness. They know it's a small price to pay for handling. When the Coupe came out, people actually thought it was FWD...go figure. Now that Infiniti has the data on the demographics for the new G35 and G37, you can clearly see just how different the suspension feels between the first and second gen cars.