Has the Nissan GT-R got Toyota running scared?

[gt_performah]

Has the Nissan GT-R got Toyota running scared?


Posted Today 11:15 AM by Angus MacKenzie
Filed under: Editorial, The Big Picture, Toyota, Supercars


It was Ed Loh who first noticed: "Funny," he said. "Once the production GT-R arrived, the Lexus LF-A prototypes disappeared from the Nurburgring." He has a point. Corvette engineers have been at the Nordschliefe in the 620-horse ZR1 running what appear to be comfortable 7min 40sec laps (in other words, better times than former Formula 1 ace Jan Magnussen in full commando attack mode managed in the Z06). But the LF-As, 'Ring-side spy shots of which arrived here almost on a weekly basis over the past few months, seem to have gone AWOL.


Maybe it's just the way Toyota's testing is scheduled (according to our spies at the 'Ring, the LF-A has resurfaced and should be on track shortly). But I wonder. Has the GT-R got Toyota running scared?

Originally revealed at the 2005 Detroit Show as a concept, the LF-A (a prototype caught at the 'Ring last year is pictured) features carbon-fiber intensive construction, and an F1-inspired naturally aspirated V-10 with at least 500hp. (A hybrid V-8 -- the electric motors drove the front wheels -- was tested at one point, but our intel suggests Toyota has gone back to the original V-10 idea.) Toyota has pledged the LF-A will be the company's first genuine supercar. Expectations are high.

Like us, Toyota's engineers know the Nissan GT-R is merely mortal. More horsepower than advertised -- at least 507 horsepower, according to our own dyno testing -- plus low gearing, all-wheel drive and the trick DSG dual clutch transmission help it deliver a scorching 0-60 mph time of 3.2 seconds. They also know the GT-R's mad rush is fading by the time the car reaches the quarter mile.

You can bet those engineers are swarming all over GT-Rs right now, pulling cars to pieces, and analyzing every detail. They will have been watching the testing at the Nurburgring, too, quietly noting the lap times. And they will now be aware the lighter, meaner GT-R V-Spec has been unofficially clocked lapping the Nordschliefe in close to 7min 25sec.

Toyota's problem is this: The GT-R has set the performance bar incredibly high for the next Japanese supercar. And Toyota being Toyota, delivering a supercar that's second-best to a Nissan is unthinkable, especially if it's going to carry the Lexus badge. The LF-A has to be faster than the GT-R, in a straight line, and around the legendary Nordschliefe. Otherwise it risks being perceived a failure.

[opus]

With no true sports car in its current line up, I think Toyota has lost its knowledge on how to make a sports car. My extended family gathering used to look like a Toyota dealership. Now, no one has a Toyota.

Toyota = slow drivers' car

[codeflux]

i say let toyota beat '09 gt-r. then '10 gt-r will have to beat toyota. you get the point. let 'em fight, the customers are the winners here!

[zackt69]

I think the other major problem Toyota faces, especially when using the Lexus badge, is the price that comes with it. Most of the normal Lexus's are only 5-15k less than the GT-R retail price (pre mark up ). To get a car with the Lexus name that not only out performs the GT-R, but stays somewhat competitive on price is going to be a killer for Toyota.

[Sukairain]

Eh, how do you approach an engineering team and tell them "I want you to build a street car that can run faster than 7:25 on Nurburgring"


As a matter of fact I think Toyota will build a car that's faster than the GT-R eventually. It might take them several more years but I am sure they will get it done. What I am more interested in knowing is what the Germans and Italians are planning on countering Godzilla at this point. It's quite embarassing to have an overweight daily driver car out there on the track whipping the Enzo and Carerra GT.

[strife]

Whatever Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura does to compete against a GTR.....means that we may have more choices and ultimately the winners are the customers as codeflux mentioned.
One can only dream about the next NSX or Supra

[RamboRami]

Originally Posted by Sukairain

Eh, how do you approach an engineering team and tell them "I want you to build a street car that can run faster than 7:25 on Nurburgring"

As a matter of fact I think Toyota will build a car that's faster than the GT-R eventually. It might take them several more years but I am sure they will get it done. What I am more interested in knowing is what the Germans and Italians are planning on countering Godzilla at this point. It's quite embarassing to have an overweight daily driver car out there on the track whipping the Enzo and Carerra GT.

You're nuts dude. Your posts are so uneducated lately...
Enzo & Carrera GT are faster than the GTR around the track

[dec55]

Toyota should do what everyone else will do....buy a GTR, take it apart.
Backwards engineer the best parts, and build a faster machine for a cheaper
price...:lol....

And make it really reliable.

[Skaterbasist]

Originally Posted by RamboRami

You're nuts dude. Your posts are so uneducated lately...
Enzo & Carrera GT are faster than the GTR around the track

1+ there's no way the regular R35 will ever touch the Enzo & GT.

Even with a production of the GT-R V-Spec, which we have no conclusive evidence of what it will accomplish, "whipping" is a huge overstatement. If anything, a V-Spec R35 would be slight slower or about the same in performance.

.

[SDGeneralCounsel]

Originally Posted by opus

With no true sports car in its current line up, I think Toyota has lost its knowledge on how to make a sports car. My extended family gathering used to look like a Toyota dealership. Now, no one has a Toyota.

Toyota = slow drivers' car

You idiot. Toyota has multiple cars racing and is active in formula one and all kinds of other forms of racing. Most ignorant comment of the day!!!

Originally Posted by codeflux

i say let toyota beat '09 gt-r. then '10 gt-r will have to beat toyota. you get the point. let 'em fight, the customers are the winners here!

I think this japanese automotive cold war was the sort of thing the japanese were trying to avoid in making the gentleman's agreement to keep the hp of their cars limited to 280 bhp. Obviously those cars really can't compete with the higher horsepower cars on the market now, so the agreement had to go. It will definitely be interesting to see. Also the new rx-7 should be promising as well.

[SDGeneralCounsel]

Originally Posted by Skaterbasist

1+ there's no way the regular R35 will ever touch the Enzo & GT.

Even with a production of the GT-R V-Spec, which we have no conclusive evidence of what it will accomplish, "whipping" is a huge overstatement. If anything, a V-Spec R35 would be slight slower or about the same in performance.

.

Wrong again. Have you seen the track times around "the ring" for starters?.... If the new vette is doing 7:40's around the ring it will also spank enzo's and carrera gt's. Even the new 430 scuderia beats the enzo around Ferrari's own track. the time of the super expensive sports cars dominating really has passed.

[Skaterbasist]

Originally Posted by Lawy'dU

Wrong again. Have you seen the track times around "the ring" for starters?.... If the new vette is doing 7:40's around the ring it will also spank enzo's and carrera gt's. Even the new 430 competetition (I can't spell the real name lol) beats the enzo around Ferrari's own track.

Nothing has been confirmed for the ZR1. And yes, I've seen the lap times of most supercars out there.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. Explain to me how the regular R35 is spanking the Enzo & Carrera GT when they are over 10 seconds faster at that track?

.

[FlSHRFun]

Maybe the Supra might come back to compete with the GT-R?

[Sukairain]

Originally Posted by RamboRami

You're nuts dude. Your posts are so uneducated lately...
Enzo & Carrera GT are faster than the GTR around the track

Originally Posted by Skaterbasist

1+ there's no way the regular R35 will ever touch the Enzo & GT.

Nobody said anything about 'regular R35,' even though I would consider a R35 V-Spec to be 'regular.'

Nissan is aiming at 7:24 for the GT-R V-Spec. Rumor has it they are already doing 7:25. If Nissan can actually hit their target, Enzo and Carerra GT and left in the dust. (and at this point I tend not to doubt Nissan as much as before) Then there is GT-R Evo, GT-R Nismo S-Tune, GT-R Nismo R-Tune........

IIRC, the Nissan GT-R once set the FASTEST PRODUCTION CAR record around Nurburgring, and I have no doubt Nissan is going to aim just as high this time around. Fastest recorded Carerra GT time is 7:28 around the ring, most timed at above 7:30.

Impossible? Not any more impossible than 7:38 on a stock GT-R.

[Skaterbasist]

Originally Posted by Sukairain

Nobody said anything about 'regular R35,' even though I would consider a R35 V-Spec to be 'regular.'

Nissan is aiming at 7:24 for the GT-R V-Spec. Rumor has it they are already doing 7:25. If Nissan can actually hit their target, Enzo and Carerra GT and left in the dust. (and at this point I tend not to doubt Nissan as much as before) Then there is GT-R Evo, GT-R Nismo S-Tune, GT-R Nismo R-Tune........

IIRC, the Nissan GT-R once set the FASTEST PRODUCTION CAR record around Nurburgring, and I have no doubt Nissan is going to aim just as high this time around. Fastest recorded Carerra GT time is 7:28 around the ring, most timed at above 7:30.

Impossible? Not any more impossible than 7:38 on a stock GT-R.

You should have been more specific to begin with. Even so, I really don't like getting too in depth into discussions with mere speculation & rumors. I have the patience for official numbers

I'm sure the V-Spec will be very fast. There's no doubt in anyone's mind, seeing how quick the R35 is. But making claims about it "whipping" a Carrera GT is a big claim with little evidence to support such a statement.

I'll wait for the [V-Spec] official numbers, just as I waited for the numbers of the R35.

.