Chris Rado's Scion TC = Most Rediculous Spoiler Setup = Ugliest Race Car

[SDGeneralCounsel]

You guys are totally forgetting how much money this team has at its disposal. Frankly IMHO they could have set up the car much better and avoid using the double wing approach entirely. The time attack TC is completely one off, and nothing on it is comparable to the stock version of the car (unlike any of the other cars competing in the RTA events).

From what I understood at the event, this "double-wing" thing was a last ditch effort to get more traction up front because they couldn't get their setup for this track correct. Better tuning and more experience probably would have yielded different aero results. I wouldn't just give this car blind praise for it's lap times without seeing lap times at this track prior to utilizing the dual wing setup.

On a side note, some of the old 70's lotus race cars used double wings like this but were abandoned a long time ago.

[Triple8Sol]

Can't wait 'til we see this setup on the streets.

[mIKE]

Why can't you just respect the car for its accomplishments?

Originally Posted by SDGeneralCounsel

You guys are totally forgetting how much money this team has at its disposal.

This car was built with less money than it would take to buy a new Porsche Carrera. You want big budget, check out the SSE Evo 8, the FXMS NSX, or the C-West S2000.

Originally Posted by SDGeneralCounsel

Frankly IMHO they could have set up the car much better and avoid using the double wing approach entirely.

Why don't you let em know how and make the big bucks as an engineer? Oh, and as much as I respect Scott's Z, this car's result speaks for itself. Compare it with Scott's time. You of all people should know how extreme Scott's car already is. Yes, they are in different classes, but it goes to show what can be done. Oh, and it is WRONG WHEEL DRIVE

On a side note, the C-West s2000 is only 330 horsepower..... the FXMD NSX is about 550whp.

Originally Posted by SDGeneralCounsel

The time attack TC is completely one off, and nothing on it is comparable to the stock version of the car (unlike any of the other cars competing in the RTA events).

Wouldn't that go for ANY professionally prepped Race/TA car? Yes, that includes anything from a Civic up to a Ferrari.

Originally Posted by SDGeneralCounsel

From what I understood at the event, this "double-wing" thing was a last ditch effort to get more traction up front because they couldn't get their setup for this track correct. Better tuning and more experience probably would have yielded different aero results.

I would call it innovation. It's the only car at RTA utilizing such a setup. Oh, and wings mounted lower create so much suction that hoods will pop open, liners will get sucked out, etc.

Originally Posted by SDGeneralCounsel

I wouldn't just give this car blind praise for it's lap times without seeing lap times at this track prior to utilizing the dual wing setup.

On a side note, some of the old 70's lotus race cars used double wings like this but were abandoned a long time ago.

Did we forget F1? NASA? Formula Atlantic? F3? Virtually any other high-end racing class?

[mIKE]

In reference to the above mentioned SSE Evo 8:

http://www.beyondthedyno.com/Blogs/Eric/?p=1877

FXMD in-car


FXMD+%26+Billy+Johnson+-+RTA+09+overall+win+WSIR+-+1

[psedog]

That is definitely a sight to behold. If that picture would have been taken on the streets on a regular car, I would laugh. Since it is on the track I thought did it work? After reading all the comments made by mIKE it looks like it did

I wonder how many of the other racers saw it and thought WTF. Then saw his lap time and thought I want to try that on our car!

[Skaterbasist]

Yeah, it looks hideous, but it's a track car, so there's not much to bash about it in my mind unless it served no function. And apparently its a pretty damn fast car.

I'm sure there's other ways of increasing downforce on the front end without that spoiler. But those other alternatives probably aren't as effective (?).

Just a random thought: Does this "front spoiler" only work appropriately because its a FWD car? I wonder if such a spoiler on a dedicated RWD track car would have any real benefits.

... still, I wouldn't put that thing on a dedicated FWD track car even if they paid me

[Andrei]

The 1:18 time posted by the NSX is really amazing. I guess it's what happens when a car weighs next to nothing.


FXMD+%26+Billy+Johnson%3a+2009+RTA+overall+win+BW+-+1%3a

[mIKE]

Originally Posted by Andrei

The 1:18 time posted by the NSX is really amazing. I guess it's what happens when a car weighs next to nothing.

The FXMD NSX is about 2600 lbs with driver. Its light but not THAT light In fact, its pretty heavy considering the Scion is only about 2350 with driver....

Originally Posted by Skaterbasist

Just a random thought: Does this "front spoiler" only work appropriately because its a FWD car? I wonder if such a spoiler on a dedicated RWD track car would have any real benefits.

... still, I wouldn't put that thing on a dedicated FWD track car even if they paid me

Many porsches have tried (some successfully, others not) front spoilers to keep the front end planted. It's especially effective on this scion, because the tC will always understeer, but never oversteer. WSIR consists of mainly high speed turns, and the additional front downforce allows for higher speed turning, and powering out earlier.

Car speed is limited by a combination of turning and accelerating. On a typical RWD car, the major limitation is being able to effectively put power to the ground; the front grip is sufficient, but the rear is not, so a spoiler helps the vehicle put power to the ground mid-corner and at speed. Porsches are a bit unique in that their front tires lack the traction of a FR vehicle since they are a RR layout. They use a combination of splitters, flat bottoms, canards, and front shape to force the front end down at speed.

I would speculate that the FF limitation of the car led to a huge front spoiler... a splitter/canards simply wasn't enough for this car since the front wheels do all the work. The rear spoiler keeps the car's rear from swinging out in the high speed turns. The typical "rear doesn't need traction, the front does all the work" argument that most anti-FF people (including me) doesn't apply in this case....

[155Mph]

^that actually makes a lot of sense
btw, that was willow??

[mIKE]

WSIR aka Big Willow.

[FlSHRFun]

I just threw up in my mouth.

[155Mph]

Originally Posted by mIKE

WSIR aka Big Willow.

didn't recognize it
I've only ever been on the 1.8 mile track anyway

[bluevelvet]

i read about this thing a while back.. it does look ugly as fvck but.. really.. when your making a race machine.. its function over form.. if putting a transformers body kit on my car would help me cut my lap time by 1 min.. i would do it in a heart beat.. racing/tracking a car is all about lap times unless its an endurance race or something..

IMO it serves its purpose.. kind of like some rear defusers that are just plain ugly but once on the track they show their worth.. from what i know a FR car wouldnt really need a front mount wing.. being they would need more downforce in the rear to prevent braking the rear wheels loose.. the Lotus Elise/ Exige is well known for its Uber Grip and ability to hold down lateral Gs.. if an engineer was able to transverse that onto a larger more powerful platform.. that guy would be an instant millionare.. so long as the car is able to hold its traction.. but then again suspension set up is just as important as Aerodynamics and power..

[mIKE]

I need more downforce in the front. The faster I go, the more I understeer; the faster I go, the more downforce I generate in the front, and my front downforce isn't able to keep up.

[ltrrtl218]

Originally Posted by CandlestickPark

When I first saw pics of this car I thought it was a photochop. With lap times like that who cares what it looks like!

its better to look good than to be good.