C&D Slams Legacy GT

[SixFive]

What happened to the subbie dreams of G domination? The 14.2 1/4 mile is nice if you like to kill your car but here's a taste from the comp of 4 sub 30K sports sedans by Patrick Bedard:

"Rounding Metro corners at 800 rpm is iffy - about half the time the engine goes into terminal bucking mode...

"It's very much a Subaru, confirmed on your first drive by the clatter slam of the door, just like every subbiue we can remember."

"Apart from the foreceful engine, there is not much of a sense of athletic discipline here. 'GT' is a badge, not an attitude"

Good thing I didn't rush into the dealer and get rid of the real deal for a phony. Where's scubbie now - i'm sure he'll tell us how fast it is!

PS the legacy came in 3rd. A4 was 4th and TSX wins. 2nd was the volvo s40 T5..my favorite in the bunch with the fastest highway acceleration and 0-100...you dont need 13.5psi to get there either.

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Hotchkis Sways (M/M)
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

[bsgoren]

Yeah, it's funny now b/c if you look at the Subbie site (now LegacyGT.com I think), they've all just about given up on the comparos with the G35; now, they're focusing on catching up to their real competition (like most of said over and over while they just bashed us, saying we're snobs ;-) like the Acura TSX, Volvo S40, etc. Naturally, they all disagree with the car mags' conclusions and test reviews as if the car mag experts have no idea what they're talking about ;-) Yes, we all know it's fast...ok, it's fast, we get it, but...

They seem to have conceded that their beloved Subbie Legacy GT just isn't in the same class as the Infiniti G35 (especially without the lux options we have available), saying that if it had all the options, it would more expensive (and that's contrary to Subrau's niche). Funny, b/c while they just kept on coming here for some fighting and bashing some time ago, in the end, the car mags just confirmed what we were saying in the first place. ;-)

BTW -- I still have yet to see one on the road! ;-)

One more thing...please, let's not make this thread a big deal (as proved by the last one, it would surely be just be an annoyance instead of fun, informative discussion); this thread really should be in the "Other Cars" section. ;-)



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter

Edited by bsgoren on 09/16/04 12:19 PM.

[SixFive]

Yeah but its more fun when the all the sedan guys get to talk about thier fierce competion! I saw a couple and sat in a wagon. It's ok but it looks like crap compared to the volvo which would be a great car for me if it were cheaper I were younger. Like we said months ago - it's not really a remade platform - just rewarmed same old same old. It's a great car in the 2001 19 k price points. I can't believe they build a volvo from a mazda 3 and get more than 34 loaded for them. Thats insane and the reasons these guys make $$$$. And it's not a bad car either! I'm not familiar enough with todays smaller platforms to say that using a 3 chassis is the wrong way to go - but theres got to be 10k in markup on a volvo t5 after defraying all those fixed costs of the platform...

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Hotchkis Sways (M/M)
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

[bsgoren]

Before I decided on the Infiniti G35, I had thought about the Volvo S40 T5 just when I saw the pictures of it in the mags and on the tv ads, but 1. it's look is almost identical to the BMW 3 series...look at it again; you'll do a double-take ;-), 2. it's still a 4 cyl. turbo w/ major turbo lag, 3. it's FWD (if I wanted that, I would have got a loaded Acura TL, which I almost did ;-), and 4. like you said...a new, loaded Volvo S40 T5 is right up there in price which doesn't make sense to me for this vehicle (imo, I think it should be around $30k loaded). It does get great mileage though ;-)



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter

Edited by bsgoren on 09/16/04 12:27 PM.

[WildWildWest]

In reply to:

---

2nd was the volvo s40 T5..my favorite in the bunch with the fastest highway acceleration and 0-100...you dont need 13.5psi to get there either.

---

The Legacy was quicker than the Volvo...

Funny read though. You are right, it is an 'other cars' topic.
I found it funny the Accord won.

2004 Sedan -- 3M Clear Bra - Bought on eBay and DIY -- Rocky Mounts bike racks!

[DwnUnder23]

Actually the Volvo was the quickest from a roll on race, the Legacy GT was the fastest from a stop cause of AWD launch. The Legacy GT also had the best power to weigh ratio of the bunch but the S40 was still faster in the top end. The only bad thing about S40 is that it’s FWD, torque steer.

BTW, here's the link to the comparison roadtest on C&D:


http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?...rticle_id=8550

[scubie02]

And yet Road & Track (owned by the same company as C&D), in the same month, doing the same comparo against the TSX, ranked the Legacy number one. Surely you must realize that any comparo is going to be a subjective exercise
based on the particular individuals doing that particular review, and what qualities they place the highest. They liked the interior best on the TSX and obviously found that more important than performance, which is certainly their prerogative. I can't blame someone if they buy a TSX over a Legacy, if it fits their priorities better--its their call. Obviously the R&T people had different priorities.

Many people were fairly disgusted by the review because of inconsistencies in what they said and how they rated, and because of things like using a euro spec volvo and failing to really make that clear (I'm guessing most people missed that). But to me its no big deal--I compared those same vehicles before buying the Legacy, so obviously my opinion varied from theirs.

I suspect that if I found a comparo where the G35 didn't win (I recall several of those) that somehow you wouldn't all decide your car wasn't so great after all. Somehow I think you'd still feel your car was the better choice, since you bought it rather than whoever the G lost to in some magazine...

[Gsedan35]

I'll reserve any comment's on the Legacy I might have until I actually drive one, which I do plan on doing. But while on the topic, Road&Track also did a comparo of the car vs the TSX this month as well, which the Legacy won. I looked at R&T's web site and they do not have this comparo article up yet.

"All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

G35 6mt

[jmcumming]

I drove one, and still bought the G. The Subaru felt floaty to me, and the Subie stuttered a bit when getting on the gas in low revs (seems to be a common problem according to the Subie site). Funny how much of a tizzy posting that they came in 3rd on this site has already caused over there. You'd think we wrote the article from the way they react. I get a laugh over the fact that they are calling our car porky, yet the Subie GT LTD only weighs 30 lbs less.

'98.5 Contour SVT, 132K miles (Sold)
'04 G35 6MT - Black on Black

[260hp]

I skimmed the Sube comments related to what G35 owners were saying about their car.
What's funny is the subaru doesn't compete against the G35. Thus the comparison against the TSX. I'm not even sure it would compete against the ugly TL.
What's more, some don't want to accept the fact that pretty much across the board, G35's trounce the 325i, the so-called benchmark. (see any of the comparisons done).
Trust me, I would have had no problem buying a 325i. But c'mon 184 hp!?!?

[WildWildWest]

[quote}my favorite in the bunch with the fastest highway acceleration and 0-100...

---

from c/d
TSX A4 1.8T Legacy S40 T5
50-70 mph 10.3 9.3 8.1 8.7
0-100 mph 19.9 23.7 16.0 16.6

2004 Sedan -- 3M Clear Bra - Bought on eBay and DIY -- Rocky Mounts bike racks!

[DwnUnder23]

Quote from C&D:

The S40 was quickest to 120 mph, also quickest in the rolling 5-to-60 acceleration and the 30-to-50. Turbos aren't awake yet when you give that initial dip of the pedal. It's their nature. Love it, or choose something else.

Vehicle	Acura TSX	Audi A4 1.8T	Subaru Legacy 2.5GT	Volvo S40 T5
C/D test results:
acceleration, seconds
**0-60 mph	7.5	8.1	5.7	6.7
**test average	7.0
**0-100 mph	19.9	23.7	16.0	16.6
**test average	19.1
**0-150 mph	33.7	40.2	26.2	25.7
**test average	31.5
**1/4-mile @ mph	15.7 @ 90	16.2 @ 87	14.2 @ 96	15.0 @ 97

The Volvo had a higher trap speed in the 1/4 mile then the Legacy GT, which indicates that from a roll on race the S40 is faster.* BTW, the euro-spec S40 T5 has the same power output as the US spec S40.

[scubie02]

"What's funny is the subaru doesn't compete against the G35. Thus the comparison against the TSX. I'm not even sure it would compete against the ugly TL.
What's more, some don't want to accept the fact that pretty much across the board, G35's trounce the 325i"

I'm always puzzled by why some people on here seem to think that infiniti is perceived as as a higher level nameplate than it is. It is NOT a true "premium" name plate--it is a pseudo premium nameplate on the same level as volvo, saab, acura, and MAYBE audi, though audi has probably gained more acceptance simply by way of longevity to many people, despite the fwd. Infiniti is NOT really seen as being on the same level to most people as Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar and perhaps Lexus, which is probably the closest to being accepted as a premium brand of the japanese lines, though in many people's eyes they still are not and never will be on the same level. You have to realize that to true traditionalists, NO japanese brand will ever be on the same level, no matter how it performs. They will always be "upstarts". Why was the G not in this comparo? Who knows--perhaps it was size, perhaps they just wanted a 4 car comparo.

So while you may not feel subaru compares to Infiniti, a subaru owner might point out with satisfaction that subaru is already being compared to Acura, Volvo and Audi, not other mainstay japanese companies, which isn't bad for a simple 1st redesign and attempt to move up the line. In terms of performance, it blows most of them away, and I'd take subaru's reliability and awd system anyday over volvo's or audi.

I might also point out for those crowing about the volvo's trap or 0-120 speeds--you'll note they were comparing the 2wd version of botht he audi and volvo to subaru's awd. How do you think the numbers would compare to their awd versions (which weren't included supposedly because the additional price of these makes them much more expensive)? That would be like comparing the times of the awd G35 against the regular BMW 330.

[F23A4]

I dont own one but Infiniti IS a premium nameplate.

Only price and historic brand recognition seperate MB/BMW/Jag from Infiniti, where build quality is in Infiniti's favor BY FAR. (MB pretty much ranks with NON-Caddy/Buick GM cars.) So with regard to being in the ranks of the elite, save it for those that actually buy hype without substance. This isnt the 80s.

That said, the Legacy GT's only Nissan counterpart is the Alitma 3.5SE/SE-R. The G35 is upscale (a la TL, A4 & 3 series).

As far as picking the Legacy over the Audi, I agree with you. Subaru makes a much more reliable car than Audi. But to the buying public, the Audi name carries more weight. (Once again, branding.)

2002 Maxima SE (auto)
- Trust Tower Strut Bars
- Falken Ziex ZE-512s (definite mod)
- Cattman Y-pipe

Best time to date: 14.725sec@93.04mph w/60'-2.169
Englishtown - 9/7/02 (Stock setup)

[deadmanincbh]

Btw the T5 vovlvo comes in awd so that one of the reasons is pricey.