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#1
07-16-2008, 12:12 AM
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So... Iran...
Well, after the other thread was removed in suspicious circumstances, I have taken it upon myself to open up another one in the hope that we can have a normal discussion on the issue. Now I don't want rednecks barging in here, buck teeth at the ready screaming "nuke the r**heads", or whatever. A bit of reason, and decent conduct will make it much better... so here goes...
Personally, as someone who has worked in the Middle East for MANY years, and experienced Saudi, Iran, and the UAE, I think this whole sabre rattling exercise is utter, utter pantaloons. On the one hand we have Israel/US, (might as well lump them together), and on the other Iran. So, what exactly has either side done to deserve threats, risk on annihilation. Iran Well, in my mind there seem to be several things going on here, or at least the perception of things going on. Most famously, we have the issue with the nuclear power station they are building. Now one thing that the media, and folks in general seem to fall into believing is that they are building nuclear weapons. This is not, and has yet to be proven by anybody. The IAA (International atomic agency, or whatever they are called this week), have been to Iran, on several occasions, and have examined irans facilities, unhindered, and have found absolutely diddly-squat proof towards anything even remotely sinister. You also have to remember that Iran is a signatory in the non-prolifatory treaty, signed by the US, UK, and other countries with clout. In this agreement each country is allowed to seek out nuclear power, and it is perfectly legal. Now coupkle that with the IAA findings, and what exactly has Iran done to attract so much attention? It has broken no international laws, and has threatened nobody, (hold your horses there, we'll get to that in a minute). Next we have the missile test that they performed. Now regardless of any photoshopping that may, or may not have come from iranian sources, the iranians lobbed some missiles off into the Guld of Arabia. "My God", I hear you shout, "what is to be done about this flagrant act of aggression?". Well, my fine fellows, were you up in arms when Israel had it;s own war games a few months back, based quite publicly on an attack on Iran. Hell, some of you may not have even heard about the missile tests that Israel did of it;s own. Yet why does this not yeild up newspaper space, yet Iran is all over the paper, with folks up in arms. Well, look at it through their eyes. For the past few months, and beyond, (remember Iran was in the Axis of evil for some unknown reason), Iran has been getting threatened more, and more as time goes on. It has escalated to ridiculous proportions recently, with blatant statements from the mouths of US generals, and Whitehouse spokespeople, and even out of the mouth of Bush himself. Now I can give articles, and info when folk want it, so I won't bore you with it here. I also presume anyone who has anything interesting to say on here will read newspapers, and watch the news, so you probably already know the score). So looking at all this sabre rattling, would a nation be correct in tooling itself up for a possible invasion? Seems to me that Iran is the only nation, apart from N. Korea, that isn't allowed to actually defend itself. Iran has only talked of defending itself, and actually hasn't been at war since the Iran - Iraq war, (remember Oliver North?). They are not Arabs, and were not participants in the Arab - Israeli war on 19 something or other, (I think it was 67). So, ask yourself why do we seem to be heading off to a conflict we do not need, nor are equipped for? It is also important to note that whilst we have had these threats against Iran, we are occupying counties on both side of it. A very important factor. Israel Israel, and Iran have a varied relationship. Whilst they are not the best buddies, they certainly do not read from the same page. Iran definitely has an issue regarding the behaviour of Israel, and it's original creation. Iran feels that, in my mind, most of the tension in the region is not purely of an Israeli nation, but rather of a nation backed up by the US, seemingly limitlessly, giving it much more leverage on local affairs than would be possible without. And from speaking to Iranians recently in Abu Dhabi, they are very worried that Israel will attack Iran in the same way it did many years ago, and against Syria very recently. All in all, the tension between Israel, and Iran has escalated to a point, but I can't, for the life of me see why iran is being made out to be the bad guy? What doesn't help is the countless veto's that the US has put in on UN resolutions against Israel. The "Wipe them off the map" comment... I shan't spend a long time on this, as it is fairly widely known about the translation controversy. It;s best if you do the research yourself, as the last time I posted up a wiki link, (first port of call really), a certain person went onto Wiki and said stuff about me on there, which was a little pathetic. So, have a look yourself, and see what you can see. It's good to use the references for the subject on the bottom of wiki, as they are from good sources, like the NY times, etc. My personal take is that iran has no intention of attacking israel, rather it would like to see it's 'regime', (is it ever a regime if an ally?), changed. That, of course, is not the type of statement that leads you to war. The US/UK have stated plenty of times that they don't like, or want to see such and such a government in power. Examples being China, Zimbabwe, Iraq, etc, yet this is never taken as a threat, or an act of war, except if you are iran. Anyway, I'd like for you to watch a speech by Ron paul, on this very subject, then get back to me with either counters, or agreements... Either way I'm looking forward to it. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7354M1QmGYQ
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#2
07-16-2008, 01:17 AM
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The agency you're thinking of is the IAEA. The other thing I'll point out is last thing I read, our own government thinks they abandoned their nuclear weapons program a few years ago, although the Bush administration is adamant that we should still be concerned.
The major issue here stemmed from the hostage crisis, overthrowing of the Shah and the things that followed. After that the US supported Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war which further increased tensions between the two nations. As far as the 'wipe off the map comment'.....such an idiom does not exist in Farsi. If a member here would like to debate this point with me IN FARSI, i'd be more than happy to do so, but if you're going to base it off something you read or were told, then save your breath. I think this Michigan professor did a pretty good job trying to explain what was actually said: My personal translation of what he actually said- "The Imam said that this occupying regime of Jerusalem should vanish [also could be said as never exist] from the pages of time" I'll also add most of the interviews I've seen him in get translated incorrectly, but people here don't really care. Let me also add I personally think that whole regime should be overthrown, without outside [i.e. US] intervention. I also find it hilarious when people here think anything Ahmadinejad says actually matters or carries any weight. In reality, the President of Iran has no more power than the Queen of England. The country is run by the Supreme Leader- Ali Khamenei (successor to Khomeini). If Khamenei wants Ahmadinejad gone tomorrow, its done, no questions asked. He is in charge of that country and is the the only person that really matters.
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#3
07-16-2008, 02:34 AM
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Actually the IAEA has not been given access to 100% of Iran's nuclear facilities. That's why we are all guessing here.
One of the big suspicions is why Iran would turn down a free light water nuclear reactor to persue their heavy water reactor purchased from Russia? The other question is why waste time even discussing sh1t when the thread goes bye bye. Who's deleting these threads?
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#4
07-16-2008, 03:20 AM
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http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheet...whohaswhat.asp
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personally, as long as Iranian nukes don't get into terrorist hands, I don't give a fvck.
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I'm a mushroom-cloud-layin' mothe*****, mother*****! Every time my fingers touch brain, I'm Superfly T.N.T., I'm the Guns of the Navarone!
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#5
07-16-2008, 03:34 AM
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most people here dont remember Iran contra. It's nice to pretend somebody's an enemy when your really STILL working with them outside of anybody's radar....
There are satellites which broadcast anti government programs and broadcasts from the US (exiled Iranian politicians and spokes people) who fled the current iranian regime during the revolution in 1979. These satellite broadcasts were being sent by an Israeli satellite (telestar XYZ). Amazingly, a couple weeks ago, these broadcasts were brought down illegally although the airtime was paid for by these exiled people from their own pockets. keep in mind its an israeli satellite, why would an israeli operated satelitte bring down broadcasts which are being sent into Iran which are spreading reform and freedom into the eyes of iranians inside?? Well, the owner of the broadcast is suing the satellite b/c he stated they refused to broadcast any 'political shows' of his... His politics are of reform and democracy in Iran...not of terrorism and for the justification of destryoing israel....
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#6
07-16-2008, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Any more info on that??
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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#7
07-16-2008, 04:18 AM
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http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/...ctivities.html
Old news but it's a good decription of the meaning "access". Iran has been playing games and hide the facility for years. Also explains how Iran can declare "Inspectors found nothing" while the rest of the world says "we found nothing at the restricted and limited areas we were allowed access to".
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#8
07-16-2008, 04:21 AM
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Dude, that is 2002, and Iran has closed that particular operation in 2003. That is indeed old news. It is well founded, and well investigated, and Iran admitted it's project, and closed it down. That was 5 years ago... Anything recent?
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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#9
07-16-2008, 04:24 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...201447_pf.html
Interesting article...
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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#10
07-16-2008, 04:26 AM
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Again, Iran's policy then is the same as it is now. Different place, same evasive bs.
another report. statements about how access is restricted is littered inside the report, along with susicions of Iran's testing of explosives and delivery systems. http://www.afji.com/2008/07/3561963
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#11
07-16-2008, 04:34 AM
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Of course that would be in response to...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6211561.stm Remember to put things in their context... Cooperation was full until sanctions were pout into place, despite the full cooperation... Plus the further sanctions that the US want to put into place. But alas, the CIA, and IAEA still have no proof of a weapons program, and the CIA state that they stopped their program in 2003. But alas, what do they know? You also have to wonder who wouldn't 'arm up' after... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7501498.stm
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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#12
07-16-2008, 11:14 AM
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It might have been "full" as per what Iran was technically required to do but by no means did the IAEA have full access to all facilties in Iran. Just what Iran declares.
Put it this way, at any time was the IAEA able to inspect anything/anywhere it wanted? Not by a long shot. If so, we would have a much better idea of what they were up to and we probably wouldn't be in this guessing game now. I don't think full disclosure up to 2006 is valid as Iran couldn't have forwarded their program in 2 years without having a ongoing nuclear weapons program in place. These sanctions were based on trace material found at one site. Which I don't believe represents "full access" by any means
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#14
07-16-2008, 02:41 PM
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Why would Iran believe Jews are opressed? That makes no sense...
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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#15
07-16-2008, 02:43 PM
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Of course we could counter that with the program where Americans think Harry Potter is glorifying witchcraft, and it should be banned!! OR what about Jesus camp, that was a bit mental..
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2003.5 G35 Sedan Premium package Sport 5AT, fitted with velcro stuff to keep my Satnav in the hole-thingy. Full time grammar nazi. Tina Fey makes my pants go tight!
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