3rd party independant tear down results of a failed GTM motor.
 

For now the source of this motor will remain unnamed, pending legal action. The motor was purchased from a reputable engine builder, and was our 5th motor out of 6 ordered from them that had issues:rolleyes: This motor burned 4Qts of oil inbetween oil changes at only 2000-3000 miles. The heads had to have all of the valves replaced due to caked on and burnt up oil, that could not even be beadblasted off, thats how thick it was.


We were blamed for improper tuning on one motor,therfore this motor was sent out for 3rd party independant inspection by reputable engine builders, some who have set world records in the sports compact NHRA series. We also have another one of their motors out for 3rd party inspection as we speak pending teardown.

We have to date, have yet to see this particular shop step up and assume any form of culpability, from this motor to a set of cams that fell apart in the engine, and we were told were not warrantied cause we did not use a high enough Zinc content oil to help harden them:rolleyes:


Engine: Nissan VQ35
Temperature: 74 degrees.
Instrument: Starrett .0001 reading
Requested By: MRC Motorsports
Inspected By: XXXXXXXXXXXX



Observation A: Crankshaft
Main Journal 1: 2.3608 @ 10:00
2.3608 @ 2:00
2.3608 @ Y axis


Main journal 2: 2.3607 @ 10:00
2.3608 @ 2:00
2.3608 @ Y axis


Main Journal 3: 2.3609 @ 10:00
2.3609 @ 2:00
2.3609 @ Y axis


Main Journal 4: 2.3607 @ 10:00
2.3607 @ 2:00
2.3607 @ Y axis

continued on page 2
Notes: notice of visual grooves on main and rod journals. Pictures shown below.
Probable Cause: improper environment of engine assembly and/or dirty bearing surfaces at time of assembly, as well as contamination or debris in and around oil galleys.
Rod Journal 1: 2.0455 @ 10:00
2.0457 @ 2:00
2.0456 @ Y axis

Rod Journal 2: 2.0455 @ 10:00
2.0455 @ 2:00
2.0455 @ Y axis

Rod Journal 3: 2.0453 @ 10:00
2.0455 @ 2:00
2.0455 @ Y axis

Rod Journal 4: 2.0452 @ 10:00
2.0454 @ 2:00
2.0454 @ Y axis continued next page.
Rod Journal 5: 2.0455 @ 10:00
2.0455 @ 2:00
2.0456 @ Y axis


Rod Journal 6: 2.0455 @ 10:00
2.0455 @ 2:00
2.0455 @ Y-axis


Notes: Same as main journals
Probable Cause: Same as main journals

Observation B: Main Tunnel Inner Diameter




Main 1: ID 2.5189 @ .0004+ out of roundness

Main 2: ID 2.5189 @ .0003+ out of roundness

Main 3: ID 2.5189 @ .0005+ out of roundness

Main 4: ID 2.5193 @ .0010+ out of roundness

Nissan Factory ID size (2.5194 – 2.5203)


Notes: Inner diameter of mains were found to be as tight as -.0010, which is out of factory specifications which show they are on the tight side.

Probable Cause: Aftermarket hardware for the mains were found to be used without performing an (align hone), which may have been the cause of the ID to be incorrect.


Observation C: Cylinder Bore, Piston and Rings


Y Axis



X Axis
Cylinder 1:
Top: (Y 3.8499) Piston size 3.7758
Mid: (Y 3.8503)
Bot: (Y 3.8510)

Top: (X 3.8501)
Mid: (X 3.8501)
Bot: (X3.8500)


Cylinder 2:
Top: (Y 3.8499) Piston size 3.7754
Mid: (Y 3.8509)
Bot: (Y 3.8514)

Top: (X 3.8496)
Mid: (X 3.8500)
Bot: (X 3.8496)


Cylinder 3:
Top: (Y 3.8502) Piston size 3.7753
Mid: (Y 3.8505)
Bot: (Y 3.8513)

Top: (X 3.8495)
Mid: (X 3.8500)
Bot: (X 3.8496)


Cylinder 4:
Top: (Y 3.8504) Piston size 3.7755
Mid: (Y 3.8505)
Bot: (Y 3.8509)

Top: (X 3.8497)
Mid: (X 3.8500)
Bot: (X 3.8499)


Cylinder 5:
Top: (Y 3.8500) Piston size 3.7756
Mid: (Y 3.8508)
Bot: (Y 3.8509)

Top: (X 3.8501)
Mid: (X 3.8503)
Bot: (X 3.8501)


Cylinder 6:
Top: (Y 3.8503) Piston size 3.7756
Mid: (Y 3.8505)
Bot: (Y 3.8511)

Top: (X 3.8499)
Mid: (X 3.8501)
Bot: (X 3.8499)





Notes: Excessive wear on cylinder walls, on cylinders 1,3 and 5. Piston to wall show an average of .0074+, on all cylinders.


Cylinder 1:
Top Ring: .022
2nd Ring: .026

Cylinder 2:
Top Ring: .027
2nd Ring: .024

Cylinder 3:
Top Ring: .020
2nd Ring: .030

Cylinder 4:
Top Ring: .026
2nd Ring: .025

Cylinder 5:
Top Ring: .020
2nd Ring: .022

Cylinder 6:
Top Ring: .022
2nd Ring: .025



Notes: Engine reportedly had about 2000 miles , and research show a history of abnormal running conditions.


Probable Cause of Engine Failure:
1) Improper ring end gaps of top and 2nd rings.
2) Excessive piston to cylinder wall clearance
3) Excessive blow by and oil consumption

Below are some pictures of the main journals, please tell me how i tuned the to look the way they do, keep in mind this motor had 2-3 miles on it tops. Look also at the amount of metal in the oil pickup, as the inspection reported "dirty oil galleys". Also not the amount of oil in the heads and on the valves. The valves were so caked with oil from the improper ring gap and piston to wall the the valves could not even close...This is absolutely unnaceptable on any level.Here are a few more pictures of the motor we had blueprinted.Note in the last picutre the gouges in the main bearing that was done upon assembly at GTM, you can clearly see it is BELOW the visible wear mark, showing that is was there from the start.Note the Oil gunk burnt to the inside of the cylinder walls as well as the valves keeping them from properly seating. This was due to the sloppy and 30 thousanths of oil ring end gap and improper piston to wall. This motor was doomed from day one. With overtight mains and loose ring gap.
https://g35driver.com/forums/attachm...vq-motor-3.jpg

https://g35driver.com/forums/attachm...vq-motor-1.jpg

https://g35driver.com/forums/attachm...vq-motor-4.jpg
https://g35driver.com/forums/attachm...vq-motor-5.jpg

https://g35driver.com/forums/attachm...vq-motor-2.jpg

:eek: :eek: and :eek:

thats crazy chit

would really like to know who build them to make sure i nor anyone i know go there

I hope this isnt another VRT thread. I think they are out of business anyways now.
But yes, it is a useless thread unless you inform us what shop it is.

ummmm, I'm confused why we need to know this unless we find out what the shop is.

I'm however glad that the independent third part did not find that the engine was fine and it was your tuning that was improper.

1+ :dunno:

+10

Why would anyone want to use this place. I'm looking into an engine biuld... how do I know it's not this particular company I'm looking at?

the research is out there for you to find out the shop yourself. no point in MRC telling who it is since legal action is pending.

The reason i dont want to say who it is, is because the current owners and staff of these sites will delete, lock,ban ect if I do mention the well respected vendor. Not VRT or RA for sure, however it is a well respected, chest pounding vendor of all of the IB sites.
We attempted to resolve the issues amicably without going public and our phone calls have been ignored since June, and we have been left out to dry and have incurred tons of warranty repair fees with these customers since we, unlike others, stand behind our work. Even if it means loosing a ton of money.
Perhaps these postings will awake the sleeping giant and get them to take steps to resolve the issues we had.All i can say is we are NOT the only place that has had issues with their motors.
i will leave it at that, however do your research before you make a big purchase and talk to the members who have done the same..
FYI this particular shop was swift to bash other engine builders and shops for mistakes, but will never admit any mistake of their own. This monopoly of "Smoke and mirrors" needs to end.

FYI i fully expect to be banned for this thread, so see everyone around some time!!:BOOBIES:

Let me help here so we don’t keep every one guessing, MRC is directing this toward us and to be honest I 'm glad that he is doing this because the community needs to know the difference between a professional and an amateur just remember there are always two sides to the story. So grab you popcorn and set tight, it’s going to be interesting. Now you may want to be smart and hold you opinion until all the facts has reveled, or if you wanna jump the gun and starting bashing, I guess I have no control over that, remember its the internet.

As far as pending legal action, this will go both ways .Julian I will take you on any time. To help you out I will pm you all the info for our agent of service so don’t waste any time.

We are in process of preparing an answer the facts will be stated. Stay tuned.

Sam

GT Motorsports

i might just ban you for saying this.

in all seriousness, as long as it is kept professional and doesn't get down to unfounded accusations and name calling, threads like these can become quite informative for the entire VQ community.

will be keeping an eye on this thread and I will make sure it does not get banned for stupid reasons such as politics.

and of course the other shop can feel free to participate and present their information

uh oh...

I dont know anyone involved in this, but I sure hope it gets resolved. This type of stuff is bad for everyone involved.

As long as this thread doesn't resort to immature name calling and the like, I see no problem with keeping it open.

We need more details....

I say keep the riff raff out. Wanna see the facts, not 20 people making "funny" comments between each important post.

STARRRTTINGINGGG....

NOW!