You better know every detail as to why and how or your argument is flawed, Chief. I'm done with this thread.

 

Yeah, I'm sorta waiting for that hatchet to fall. Tailoring my replies to avoid it. Hope it doesn't go down that route.

 

^^^ without knowing that- its hard to conclude that there is no fuel when coasting in gear... so thanks for posting the page from fsm but we still have no definitive (from fsm anyway)... but when decelerating from approximately 100mpb near 7k rmp it doesn't cut fuel...

since we don't know what conditions the fsm that you posted are, I don't know the relevance... but as I stated about the one I posted (that states conditions), it doesn't apply to the fuel cut while coasting in gear theory either.

Simply looking for clarification that's all... from what I've seen, read and experienced - it doesn't happen... would love something relevant that can clarify it though.

 

The conditions are pretty clear to me?

Fuel cut when decelerating. (if this is true, then it does indeed cut fuel regardless of WHEN it cuts it. It simply wouldn't state it if it never actually cut fuel)

If were were take YOUR FSM reference (which describes a totally different set of operating conditions), we are no closer to proving YOUR theory.

BTW. I've read threads about some observing small injector values with OBD scanners (Ciper is exactly this) despite having their respective manuals say otherwise. The discussion is that it's "noise" that the obd scanner is picking up, not really a true injector pulse.

But I'l throw you an out mike. If your observed injector value can be graphed as a repeatable and consistent pattern like EC page I posted, it would make me think about it. If it's all jagged and random, I'd think it's noise.

 

this makes no sense... in that case there is no fuel when you idle - or when coming to a stop (5mph for example)... really? are you gonna use the "car's forward momentum" theory to keep the engine running? The relevance to "when" is critical in determining the "no fuel when coasting in gear" theory.
again, makes no sense... when I posted it (and in subsequent references) I clearly stated that it is the only reference I could find and it didn't pertain to the subject. The only thing I used to validate was the Cipher logs... which leads to -->
since you've read it on the internet it must be true... So far you havent provided anything to help clarify the fact that fuel is cut when coasting in gear... it's fine that you don't want to consider what I have referenced - but its pointless to continue if you have nothing to add.
an "out"??? LMAO you're the kind of guy that will write "there is a god" or "there is no god"... then wait for someone else to prove you are or are not right ...

So far I haven't seen anything more conclusive than what I've posted... and you've done nothing more than waste time refuting everything rather than posting definitive... what little you did post you couldn't even clarify.

Response not needed unless you have something substantial. And going on and on about what has ALREADY been posting is not bringing something substantial.

 

Mike. You are stating that the FSM is incorrect in their statement about cutting fuel when decelerating. Why would the condition of "coming to a stop" be the determining factor of whether or not fuel cut happens or not? That condition is not even covered in the EC section page we are discussing?!

Not sure about the "getting it from the internet Mike". You just got done posting from.........."the internet".

I'm not "waiting" for anything. I'm asking you to substaniate your obdII scanner data. Sensor noise is nothing new Mike. The piezoelectric knock sensor picks up extraneous signals all the time. (yes I know the injector pulse width isn't piezoelectric in these cars).

I guess Dave is right It's a semantics battle desguised as some semi-legitimate questioning.

I'm really LMAO at the notion that what you ranted about in the above post was "something substantial" worth pressing the "reply" button for.

Mike, bottom line. The OEM manual clearly states the ecu will CUT FUEL. That means it will cut fuel at some time during the deceleration process. THIS is the process we are discussing. It's really as simple as that. We aren't talking about fuel cut ALL THE TIME. Nor are talking about fuel cut when coasting to a stop. Fuel cut isn't a finite notion. The ecu is much to advanced for that. Apparently your thought processes aren't. I wish we could have maintained tact in this discussion. I tried anyway. Looking forward (not really) the next post of personal accusations vs technical discussion. It's what you live for apparently.

Dave. Did I pin it in the PM this morning or what? You owe me man

 

I don't want to read all this.

Does someone besides Jeff, Dave or Mike have Cliff's notes from Jeff, Dave & Mike?

 

you get pm?

cliffs:

 

why? If the results arent what you want you will squabble about the data anyway.

to address you concern about "sensor noise" in the data log I posted - first of all, if you look at the injector pulse after throttle is released, its a constant .5(ms) - the first column is the time cycle so you can see that for an extended length of time is was .5 with no fluctuation. If it were "noise" as you suggest, it would not be constant without fluctuation. I'm certain you can't accept that, so I will ask you to look at the base fuel schedule which also indicates the injectors are running after deceleration ("noise" too? ).

I knew you wouldnt be able to add anything of substance to the topic - but only continue to regress about what has already been posted... I've asked for you to clarify the blurb in the fsm in order to determine the discrepancy between the Cipher datalogs and the vague verbiage in fsm. Unfortunately you haven't offered anything other than debate.

 

Since only Jeff has responded (even though you asked for anyone other than us), I'll give you a more concise summary:
https://g35driver.com/forums/5524645-post48.html

basically I've asked for clarification from Dave, then Jeff to validate the claim that there is no fuel while coasting in gear. Unfortunately, Jeff doesnt like it when someone asks questions about very basic statements - and he isnt able to clarify the specifics of the blurb in the fsm that he figures as cliff notes.

To put it simply, there is one vague reference in the fsm that Jeff and Dave have hung their hats on - and I have further questions as to how it relates in the context of the discussion... also the discrepancy to their interpretation compared to Cipher data logs. Jeff apparently isnt capable or willing to address the subject in that manner.

 

Is it fuel cut off or most of the fuel cut off?

Mike. the injector pulse shouldn't be constant. It should be like the graphs on the Ec section I referenced yes?

AND you mentioned the pulse width of .05, not .5 I based my noise theory on the FALSE information YOU offered. .05 is a fraction of a normal pulsewidth of .5

Get it now? No you don't.

 

now you're gonna squabble over a typo?... obviously you didnt look at the data log then (which clearly shows .5)... five one hundredths of a ms? Sorry for the typo

this is basically what I've been saying since page 1.

 

constant during the duration immediately after deceleration... there is no throttle so there is not going to be fluctuation. The numbers in column 1 are the time duration is ms so pw was at .5 for about 4.5 seconds (at which point I stopped logging) - had I known this debate would have come up I would have kept logging until I was on throttle again.

Like too many things, there is theory (and internet topic perpetuation - yes this exact topic has been on the Z forum, as well and many other car forums)... but too often there is no actual data to reference. In this case the data reference isnt viable apparently - or at least no explanation for the discrepancy.

This has gone long enough with no real answer (for me anyway)... so there's no point in (me) continuing.

 

Mike. Your contention isn't with me. It's with the Nissan OEM service manual stating what you already know.

An injector pulse width isn't constant. Or else it would be constantly open. (which cleary isn't how an injector operates) It's closed/open for xx time/closed/open/closed/open. The results is the up/down graph on the FSM page I list.

I'm not disputing your data. Just wanted an explaination because your analogy was different then the discussion parameters. Of course the there has to be fuel provided at or near idle conditions The engine would stall.

 

pulse width is how long the injector stays open (not on/off cycle time)... look at 4th column for the numbers you are looking for.