Oh THANK GOD... KDog thank you!

 

I've seen reports of snow-tire-clad RWD cars passing up all-season clad 4WD trucks in snowy climates.

Put racing slicks on your AWD and see how it does on the ice. See my point yet? 4 contact patches with no traction can't compete with 2 contact patches that have some bite.

Obviously AWD/4WD + snow tires is the safest. But most people with AWD/4WD don't bother with snow tires. In that case, a snow-tire equipped RWD car gets better traction and does just fine.

The tank analogy doesn't work.. that thing has metal teeth, of course it grips. Those things will dig into and tear up asphault roads.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

A tank has rubber cleats, not metal and will do 45 MPH down a paved highway with no damage.

And your logic is still baffling.

 

No one will argue about the traction of AWD. Handling is a different matter. Which one of you would brag that My car handles like a TANK?

<font color=green>GG</font color=green>

 

Depends if I were at war or not! :-)

Seriously, I am not denying that RWD has better handling than AWD in most cases (911 Turbo comes to mind) but I was just amazed that anyone would argue the virtues of RWD in snow over AWD or even FWD.

 

The rubber cleats are for non-combat duty and parades and such. They come off when it's time for business.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

We get a fair amount of snow here in Edmonton. I've been driving FWD since my 1st car, a '74 FIAT. Used to drive in the snow even with bald tires. My 2nd car was also a FWD in '78 and shared my brother's BMW. I haven't bought a FWD car since (though I did get a 4WD vehicle). All except for very few incidents, I've never regretted RWD as long as I had winter tires on. This past winter in the G, I made it easily up hills that FWD vehicles had difficulty with.[img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

An interesting article comparing AWD/FWD/RWD with and without winter tires:

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...inter-traction

<font color=green>GG</font color=green>

 

That article sums it up nicely. Uphill acceleration goes to the 4WD, and handling and braking go to the 2WD with winter tires.

Although, they didn't pay any attention at all to the difference between FWD and RWD.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

Bigel,

I grew up in SW Michigan - I'm very familiar with SNOW... And I share your opinion (FWD and AWD give better traction than RWD in snow). However, a couple things I would like to note:

1) FWD *handling* in snow SUCKS ***. Sure, you can get yourself *going* in snow easier in FWD, but avoiding an accident in snow with a FWD is harder IMHO. (had a base 1990 Talon when I was in high school. That damn thing would always plow no matter what I did when I went around a snowy corner).

2) If you live in the Midwest, most people drive regular "cars". I laughed my head off when I moved to the West Coast (Oregon) and everyone and their mother had to have a 4WD or AWD vehicle because of "the weather". (an inch of snow once every couple years here in Portland). People who don't live where it snows regularly just SUCK at driving in anything but bone dry weather. Heck, here they think *RAIN* is dangerous.. BWAHAHAHA.. What a joke.

Chaster

 

Here in SoCal, rain IS dangerous.. but only because nobody knows how to drive in it. Everytime you have the first rain after many months of dry weather, it lifts all those oils up to the surface and we have about 200+ accidents in the San Diego area alone. Nobody backs off and gives more distance between the cars, or slows down.

Well, that's not entirely true.. sometimes they slow down too much. I was heading I15 north to Vegas once during a thunderstorm, and traffic was only moving about 20mph when 40-45 would have been perfectly fine.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

Yeah I would agree with you on both counts Chaster. Except, its my experience that being able to start and stop better than RWD will keep you out of accidents in the first place more often. Its those two movements which give people the most trouble, especially stopping because people just don't realize you have to drive differently.

I agree big time on the SUV thing! If I lived where you do, I would have a SUV. Here in VA, snow is rare and we get more ice which NOTHING this side of cleats (illegal in VA) will help. Here, a FWD or AWD car is all you need. Or perhaps a RWD with some Blizzaks. At least I hope. In all my years of driving in snow this year in my G was the first time I have ever been stuck. Its the darn Michelin Sports, and I am hoping some proper snows will solve that problem. I don't really want to buy a beater for the 3 snows a year we get here.

 

According to that C&D article, 2WD w/ winter tires stops the best. It doesn't matter if all four wheels are powered, all four wheels have brakes.. and winter tires give you more traction.. and 2WD weighs less, so there's less inertia to stop.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

FWD is a pain in the a$$. Cant wait till the true sports car gets here!!

 

What are you looking at?

In the stats table it clearly lists:

Camaro (RWD) 50-0MPH braking 302 ft. snow / 341ft. ice
Renault (FWD) 50-0MPH braking 294ft. snow / 316ft ice
Subrau (AWD) 50-0MPH braking 222ft. snow / 298 ice

Now WHO stops quicker?

Acceleration Test

Camaro (RWD) 0-50 = 23.4sec snow / 30.2 ice
Renault (FWD) 0-50 = 18.2 sec snow / 22.6 ice
Subaru (AWD) 0-50 = 11.1 sec snow / 22.1 ice

In the actuall race around the snow and ice track here is the quote from the artice:

"Although gridded close behind the Fuego in each race, the Subaru only finished ahead of it in three of the eight races. The Camaro simply rolled over and died."

So which has better handling, stopping, and acelleration in snow and ice?

If you can't figure it out from that, ask your local World Rally driver... all of those cars are AWD.

Finally, my mind goes back a couple of years to a Road & Track article in which Mario Andretti drove the hottest street cars available and rated each. Here is what the article and Mario said about the Porsche Carerra 4 (AWD):

No one, except perhaps Senior Editor Joe Rusz (our resident Porsche enthusiast), expected the Carrera 4 to best the monstrous Dodge Viper GTS-R or the graceful Ferrari F355 Spider in this competition. It just goes to show that neither horsepower nor suspension alone makes for a good-handling automobile; everything must work together for a car to feel good. And on this day, the awd Carrera 4 felt the best of all.

"The 911 Carrera 4 points in quite well and is predictable. It does have some understeer, but there's no drastic trailing-throttle oversteer. The overall balance of the car is excellent because you can induce controlled oversteer, not snap oversteer. On the exit, it's predictable and comes out nicely. The outcome of this test surprised me to some degree. At the same time, I have driven a number of Porsches of late, and I feel that the people at Porsche have done a great job with this car. Also, the Carrera 4 is the most civilized car in the wet; that's the benefit of all-wheel drive."
—Mario Andretti

 

Ryoken's referring to the May '99 article. More scientific than taking a bunch of beaters out, some with and some without the proper tires.

<font color=green>GG</font color=green>