reflash or not before installing the UTEC
#16
08-21-2009, 07:57 AM
Stock ecu doesn't run by psi, there is no such thing stock ecu will max out at 4PSI. It runs by MAF sensor(speed).
I would say your stock ecu is fine if your car makes under 350whp(think stock ecu max out at 370 or 380whp, depends on dyno).
Every car makes diff power at 4psi.
I would say your stock ecu is fine if your car makes under 350whp(think stock ecu max out at 370 or 380whp, depends on dyno).
Every car makes diff power at 4psi.
#17
08-21-2009, 08:08 AM
#19
08-21-2009, 09:38 AM
Stock ecu doesn't run by psi, there is no such thing stock ecu will max out at 4PSI. It runs by MAF sensor(speed).
I would say your stock ecu is fine if your car makes under 350whp(think stock ecu max out at 370 or 380whp, depends on dyno).
Every car makes diff power at 4psi.
I would say your stock ecu is fine if your car makes under 350whp(think stock ecu max out at 370 or 380whp, depends on dyno).
Every car makes diff power at 4psi.
Hopefully that makes better sense to you.
#20
08-21-2009, 10:06 AM
I never said stock ECU reads PSI. I stated that if you are running strictly stock ECU, it's MAF will be maxed out at 5V when you are hitting around 4PSI at redline. Of course every car is different, but 4PSI is a safe 'max' for stock MAF.
Hopefully that makes better sense to you.
Hopefully that makes better sense to you.
Ok stock ecu is max out at 4psi, and "safe". Lol
#21
08-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Of course it is not the same for all, maybe some can do 6 or 8 psi (unlikely) but I just use that number because it is a 'lowest common denominator'...
If we set the cutover higher than that, then there was detonation in high rpms and UTEC pulled timing.
I hope you have upgraded MAF if you use strictly osiris with those WHP numbers. Also watch out for detonation, the stock ECU cannot monitor for knock over 5k RPM even with osiris.
#22
08-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Stock MAF maxes out!!! ECU has nothing to do wit hit.
Of course it is not the same for all, maybe some can do 6 or 8 psi (unlikely) but I just use that number because it is a 'lowest common denominator'...
If we set the cutover higher than that, then there was detonation in high rpms and UTEC pulled timing.
I hope you have upgraded MAF if you use strictly osiris with those WHP numbers. Also watch out for detonation, the stock ECU cannot monitor for knock over 5k RPM even with osiris.
Of course it is not the same for all, maybe some can do 6 or 8 psi (unlikely) but I just use that number because it is a 'lowest common denominator'...
If we set the cutover higher than that, then there was detonation in high rpms and UTEC pulled timing.
I hope you have upgraded MAF if you use strictly osiris with those WHP numbers. Also watch out for detonation, the stock ECU cannot monitor for knock over 5k RPM even with osiris.
Ofcourse I replaced with HPX. And I have that 'knock' thing in my head. But what we can do? Just gotta trust tuner, even runing standalone or piggy or ecu...
#23
08-21-2009, 10:42 AM
At least with the UTEC, it is always watching like a nanny so if things change it will help protect you from knock and overboost. Stock ECU leaves you just hoping neither of these things happen, and they are undeniably the number one killer of FI motors.
But I will give you that the drivability of a pure MAF tune (osiris) is awesome. That is one thing I know I'm missing to some degree.
I personally wouldn't do pure MAF on stock ECU unless the ECU had the extra protection needed already in it like on a GTR or most other factory boosted vehicles.
Just my opinion. All to their own I suppose.
#25
08-21-2009, 11:07 AM
The knock parameters are set by the tuner (and they are not simple to do) so its ability to protect you is highly dependent on the tune and the stock ECU being flashed or not. So the argument that you must trust your tuner goes for both setups. Hell maybe your knock sensor wasn't working right. maybe UTEC wasn't working right. Who knows.
#26
08-22-2009, 12:34 PM
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To me it's more than just trusting the tuner, it's trusting your hardware. What if MAF gets dirty? Oil consumption can start leaning you out. Wiring can go bad or come loose... wastgate can fail and cause overboost...so many things can cause detonation and destruction to start happening even with a safe tune.
At least with the UTEC, it is always watching like a nanny so if things change it will help protect you from knock and overboost. Stock ECU leaves you just hoping neither of these things happen, and they are undeniably the number one killer of FI motors.
But I will give you that the drivability of a pure MAF tune (osiris) is awesome. That is one thing I know I'm missing to some degree.
I personally wouldn't do pure MAF on stock ECU unless the ECU had the extra protection needed already in it like on a GTR or most other factory boosted vehicles.
Just my opinion. All to their own I suppose.
At least with the UTEC, it is always watching like a nanny so if things change it will help protect you from knock and overboost. Stock ECU leaves you just hoping neither of these things happen, and they are undeniably the number one killer of FI motors.
But I will give you that the drivability of a pure MAF tune (osiris) is awesome. That is one thing I know I'm missing to some degree.
I personally wouldn't do pure MAF on stock ECU unless the ECU had the extra protection needed already in it like on a GTR or most other factory boosted vehicles.
Just my opinion. All to their own I suppose.
+1
In my book protection is everything especially on stock motor. I had over boosted in the winter and a fuel cutoff over boost protection that Utec offer is invaluable. No perfect tune will protect you from failing injecgtor/parts or bad gas. I had experience them and Utec saved my motor. Detonation and overboost (for turbo guys) are 2 of the main cause of blown motor. What is the point of a car that idle/drive perfect if you leave your self vulnerable
For self tuner and Boosted cars then Osiris isn't much fun either coz it don't offer support for a third party wideband. You are nuts to trust the OEM 02 sensor for tuning.
#27
08-22-2009, 07:30 PM
+1
In my book protection is everything especially on stock motor. I had over boosted in the winter and a fuel cutoff over boost protection that Utec offer is invaluable. No perfect tune will protect you from failing injecgtor/parts or bad gas. I had experience them and Utec saved my motor. Detonation and overboost (for turbo guys) are 2 of the main cause of blown motor. What is the point of a car that idle/drive perfect if you leave your self vulnerable For self tuner and Boosted cars then Osiris isn't much fun either coz it don't offer support for a third party wideband. You are nuts to trust the OEM 02 sensor for tuning.
In my book protection is everything especially on stock motor. I had over boosted in the winter and a fuel cutoff over boost protection that Utec offer is invaluable. No perfect tune will protect you from failing injecgtor/parts or bad gas. I had experience them and Utec saved my motor. Detonation and overboost (for turbo guys) are 2 of the main cause of blown motor. What is the point of a car that idle/drive perfect if you leave your self vulnerable
For self tuner and Boosted cars then Osiris isn't much fun either coz it don't offer support for a third party wideband. You are nuts to trust the OEM 02 sensor for tuning.Utec using their own knock sensor? or OEM sensor?
What utec can do if injector fails? or any FI parts fails? And what osiris/cipher can not do when parts fails?
Please, before you bashing at osiris. Please contact with who actually runing osiris/FI (Turbo or SC ), or contact shops that who offers osiris with their turn key or recommand osiris. I read one of shop in houston, they stop tuning via utec. Why?
Check out my350z.com tuning section. About "Utec vs osiris" "knock" there is ton of info out there and it's getting OLD. I'm not saying osiris is better than Utec Because I was happy with my utec, but i do know what's more important when it comes to FI + VQ stock motor.
Once parts failing, you have time to say good bye to your motor. But When runing with bad tune, you might not even have time to say bye to your motor.
Have you try osiris?
#28
08-22-2009, 09:45 PM
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without good tune, get ready to kiss your motor. Tell me why people driving 3~4 hours or more to go to tuner?
so what is this has to do with utec vs osiris? You need a good tune regardless.
utec using their own knock sensor? Or oem sensor?
What utec can do if injector fails? Or any fi parts fails? And what osiris/cipher can not do when parts fails?
if your vacuum line fail or your wastegate fail then your car may/will overboost (for turbo car). A good ebc controller can help but nothing beats an ecu/ems overboost fuel cutoff. Osiris is not map base so it wont know and wont do anything if your engine start to see 20psi. If your injector is clogged then your car will lean and will detonate crazy and utec will retard the ignition so hard that you will know that something is wrong. Granted the ecu will retard the timing below 5000rpm but you can be just cruising and downshift to 5000rpm on the freeway and race. Above 5000rpm then the ecu wont do much. I dont know about you but when i race my rpm never see below 5000rpm. When i had a bad tank of gas i was fine even at 4psi, i only detonated when above 5psi and higher rpm. At lower rpm and low boost, you may not detonate so the ecu might not switch right away to its high_det map.
please, before you bashing at osiris. Please contact with who actually runing osiris/fi (turbo or sc ), or contact shops that who offers osiris with their turn key or recommand osiris. I read one of shop in houston, they stop tuning via utec. Why?
/\
i was offered by osiris to try their tuner and after looking at the manual and letting them know about my concern which they dont have answers then i decided to stick with utec.
Lol at the shop nuthugging osiris.. Here's what sharif think about utec... Ask them and they will tell you they still recommend utec over osiris because of its safety feature.
Check Sharif's post here.. http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/19844...urboxs-10.html
check out my350z.com tuning section. About "utec vs osiris" "knock" there is ton of info out there and it's getting old. i'm not saying osiris is better than utec because i was happy with my utec, but i do know what's more important when it comes to fi + vq stock motor.
/\
lol at this.. Been there and done that..
Here read this thread..i'm all over that thread (i'm atheng in my 350z) at the end osiris never even join debate to defend their product.
here.. http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/40776...ddy-404hp.html
once parts failing, you have time to say good bye to your motor. But when runing with bad tune, you might not even have time to say bye to your motor.
Have you try osiris?
/\
have you ever had gotten a bad set tank of gas? I did, twice!! Have you overboosted? I did many times.. I was racing this 335i and i downshifted to 5000rpm. My car just stutter like it was hitting the revlimiter, i stop racing and i looked at my logs and i hit 10psi by 5500rpm. Imagine if i never stop and utec didnt cut fuel, i would've went all the way and i'll be driving with a built motor now.
Have you ever tune your own car? I do, and that was one of my concern. I need a reliable wideband because i street tune a lot. I need an ems that has a third party wideband support because i dont trust the oem 02 sensor at a/f below 11:5.
I can forward you all the email convo i had with jared so i'm not pulling stuff out of my ***. Trust me, if osiris offer active knock control on the entire rpm, and third party wideband support then i'll be all over osiris.
so what is this has to do with utec vs osiris? You need a good tune regardless.
utec using their own knock sensor? Or oem sensor?
What utec can do if injector fails? Or any fi parts fails? And what osiris/cipher can not do when parts fails?
if your vacuum line fail or your wastegate fail then your car may/will overboost (for turbo car). A good ebc controller can help but nothing beats an ecu/ems overboost fuel cutoff. Osiris is not map base so it wont know and wont do anything if your engine start to see 20psi. If your injector is clogged then your car will lean and will detonate crazy and utec will retard the ignition so hard that you will know that something is wrong. Granted the ecu will retard the timing below 5000rpm but you can be just cruising and downshift to 5000rpm on the freeway and race. Above 5000rpm then the ecu wont do much. I dont know about you but when i race my rpm never see below 5000rpm. When i had a bad tank of gas i was fine even at 4psi, i only detonated when above 5psi and higher rpm. At lower rpm and low boost, you may not detonate so the ecu might not switch right away to its high_det map.
please, before you bashing at osiris. Please contact with who actually runing osiris/fi (turbo or sc ), or contact shops that who offers osiris with their turn key or recommand osiris. I read one of shop in houston, they stop tuning via utec. Why?
/\
i was offered by osiris to try their tuner and after looking at the manual and letting them know about my concern which they dont have answers then i decided to stick with utec.
Lol at the shop nuthugging osiris.. Here's what sharif think about utec... Ask them and they will tell you they still recommend utec over osiris because of its safety feature.
Check Sharif's post here.. http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/19844...urboxs-10.html
check out my350z.com tuning section. About "utec vs osiris" "knock" there is ton of info out there and it's getting old. i'm not saying osiris is better than utec because i was happy with my utec, but i do know what's more important when it comes to fi + vq stock motor.
/\
lol at this.. Been there and done that..
Here read this thread..i'm all over that thread (i'm atheng in my 350z) at the end osiris never even join debate to defend their product.
here.. http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/40776...ddy-404hp.html
once parts failing, you have time to say good bye to your motor. But when runing with bad tune, you might not even have time to say bye to your motor.
Have you try osiris?
/\
have you ever had gotten a bad set tank of gas? I did, twice!! Have you overboosted? I did many times.. I was racing this 335i and i downshifted to 5000rpm. My car just stutter like it was hitting the revlimiter, i stop racing and i looked at my logs and i hit 10psi by 5500rpm. Imagine if i never stop and utec didnt cut fuel, i would've went all the way and i'll be driving with a built motor now.
Have you ever tune your own car? I do, and that was one of my concern. I need a reliable wideband because i street tune a lot. I need an ems that has a third party wideband support because i dont trust the oem 02 sensor at a/f below 11:5.
I can forward you all the email convo i had with jared so i'm not pulling stuff out of my ***. Trust me, if osiris offer active knock control on the entire rpm, and third party wideband support then i'll be all over osiris.
Edit:
Here's what Sharif's opinion about Utec on the link I posted.
Last edited by FI'ed G; 08-22-2009 at 10:04 PM.
#29
08-23-2009, 08:47 AM
I do agree with parts failing. But I more lay on good tune, since I'm runing sc, there less chance parts failing than turbo.
You are Atheng?... Enough said.
There is no reason for us to go over pro/cons about utec and osiris. Since you enough said same things on many other posts on my350z and I do respect your other posts, (that helped a lot when I moved to osiris).
But isn't time for you to accept that, slowly more FI guys runing osiris and haven't hear any complain from users "yet"?
You are Atheng?... Enough said.
There is no reason for us to go over pro/cons about utec and osiris. Since you enough said same things on many other posts on my350z and I do respect your other posts, (that helped a lot when I moved to osiris).
But isn't time for you to accept that, slowly more FI guys runing osiris and haven't hear any complain from users "yet"?
#30
08-23-2009, 09:32 AM
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I do agree with parts failing. But I more lay on good tune, since I'm runing sc, there less chance parts failing than turbo.
You are Atheng?... Enough said.
There is no reason for us to go over pro/cons about utec and osiris. Since you enough said same things on many other posts on my350z and I do respect your other posts, (that helped a lot when I moved to osiris).
But isn't time for you to accept that, slowly more FI guys runing osiris and haven't hear any complain from users "yet"?
You are Atheng?... Enough said.
There is no reason for us to go over pro/cons about utec and osiris. Since you enough said same things on many other posts on my350z and I do respect your other posts, (that helped a lot when I moved to osiris).
But isn't time for you to accept that, slowly more FI guys runing osiris and haven't hear any complain from users "yet"?
Dont get me wrong, I have always thought that the Osirs is a great option. It just lack the safety feature that an FI car needs. It is not as bad with SC because you guys dont have to worry about boost creep and boost spike. Like I said, if Uprev will add the features that are important to me and other self tuner like third party support and active knock control, then
I have always said that if drivability is your #1 concern then Osiris or a standalone is the way to go. If you want that extra peace of mind then Utec or a standalone is the way to go. I'm glad that Osiris is becoming more accepted because in the end we all benefit from more choices. Peace..
Last edited by FI'ed G; 08-23-2009 at 09:38 AM.