Has anyone seen this at Vortech's webpage? Tuner kit, comes without fuel management which allows you to save money on the kit and choose your own managment. Kit LISTS for only $4040.95. Could probably get it for $3200.00 Just add electronics or TS flash and a walbro pump.

 

It does not come with the SS box too. I think by the time you added up all extras you need it wouldnt be cost effective. From what I understand the Walbro offers no increase unless you add a return line.

 

Dont forget the nice $800 PE 380cc injectors

 

NTM, you have no accurate way to manage timing (or fueling for the matter).. using approximate flashed values for FI is coarse tuning at best (no two cars needs are the same)....

i think the SS box is a great utility, and makes management nearly foolproof....

S

 

PE injectors, TS Reflash, Walbro Pump, GReddy E-manage... this is what was recommended to me by SGP racing in Houston if I went the "Tuner" route...

2003.5 BS coupe 5AT
Clear Corners, Alum. Pedals, Pro-1 Intake, Helix Test Pipes, UR Pulley, Grounding Kit, CF Engine Cover, GReddy EVO II Exhaust, Kinetix Plenum

 

There is nothing that approximate about TS reflashes. They take out a set amount of timing off to bring your total advance to a set point. ECU alwasy advances and retards timing base on coolant temps, etc, so by adjusting a baseline like this, you would be in better shape. If you have 93 or 94 octane gas, you can tell them to take off 2-3 degrees less....

I would DEFINITELY get this, especially if it's gonna save you that much money over stock set cost. now, overall you will not save money but you will have a better setup:

1) Walbro fuel pump ($100)
2) PE 380cc injectors ($800)
3) FPR ($200)
4) return fuel lin miscellaneous (approx. $100)
5) TS Reflash ($500)

So, you do the math.... I don't know what the exact difference in cost is b/w the two setups, but keep in mind that you do NOT end up with the same setup only acheived via a different route; you end up with a full-fuel return system complete with higher capacity injectors! No kit out tehre except for the PE and the upcoming APS have that, so you are definitely in premium territory.!

 

It's not too far off $ wise, especially if you had TS flash your ECU when you were N/A. So it would really be $150.00 for the reflash which makes it basically the same cost. You would need to factor in the emanage for fine tuning but some people aren't interested in peak performance, just good performance.

 

Good, $150 instead of 500 is great.

However, that's where our philosophy differs. I would NOT want to have emanage in my car! That is why you get a custom TS flash to take care of it, and have the high quality OEM ECU control your car, instead of e-manage. Much more elegant and more reliable IMO.

Gurgen

 

So this CAN be done without E-manage? I guess SGP was just trying to sell me more... they were also a little on the high side when it came to install prices - about $1800 for the S/C and full-fuel return setup... dyno time separate... a little high or reasonable? On the other hand, they said they could get the PE injectors for around $600 w/ the install... (give a little, take a little) - damn, I'm really torn now between wheels/suspension work and going F/I - or maybe I'll just try to fit it all in... lol

2003.5 BS coupe 5AT
Clear Corners, Alum. Pedals, Pro-1 Intake, Helix Test Pipes, UR Pulley, Grounding Kit, CF Engine Cover, GReddy EVO II Exhaust, Kinetix Plenum

 

YES, the correct TS reflash. Again, this is difference of philosophies, and both will work sufficiently well.

 

My Procharger setup involved throwing away the FMU that came with it and replacing it with the TS reflash, a Walbro pump, PE 380cc injectors ($800), and a regulator/return line. I also think 'little black boxes' are unreliable. With the TS reflash of the ECU ever quits working your car won't start. If the SS box quits working you'll throw a rod or burn a valve before you know the box is bad.....

The only problem I have with TS is the fact they can't get my car tuned right. They say the can, but I just got it back and installed yesterday and the a/f curve didn't change, it just requires a lot less fuel pressure (from 64psi to 38psi) because they just opened up the lenghts of the injectors I would assume. My car still leans out at 5500rpm and still isn't safe to drive. I have to send my ECU back yet again to see if they can fix it... Laptop programability is a hell of a nice feature, but at the risk of losing your engine it's not worth it.

What size injectors were you planning on using? Doug from Crawfords told me that the stock ECU cannot control the next step bigger after 380cc and that the emanage is necesarry to control the injectors.



Kevin
www.KPtechnologies.net
AIM: KPiersonTec
04 DG Coupe / VDC Memory
OEM Remote Window up mod
Procharged / Crawford / TS

 

I'm just going to run the 380cc's - mainly for their plug-and-play compatibility... for about $150 cheaper I could go w/ the 440cc RC's, but I don't think that's a road I want to go down - for various reasons... I think I might just go w/ headers and cams right now along with wheels/tires/suspension and hold off on F/I until next year (maybe some better/cheaper methods will be available) - and I'll have a good basis for making 400 whp when the time comes...

2003.5 BS coupe 5AT
Clear Corners, Alum. Pedals, Pro-1 Intake, Helix Test Pipes, UR Pulley, Grounding Kit, CF Engine Cover, GReddy EVO II Exhaust, Kinetix Plenum

 

Did anyone notice the MAX fuel pressure at WOT?


2004 G35s auto (bone stock)
-----------------------------------
2002 s/c Accord V6 auto
so far best 1/4 mile - 13.9@101.8
coming soon: custom internals, cams, performance auto tranny w/LSD

 

Roughly 100-130 psi depending on tuning

 

Running 100+psi fuel pressure should create the worry of a blown line along with degrading the life span of the pump and injectors.

Now, when utilizing e-Manage you can directly extend the pulse width of each injector. This is not done by altering an input signal to the ECU. It is by directly tapping each injector signal and holding the signal on for a programmed percentage of the ECU commanded on time (Windows based software). This allows for very precise fuel addition while running a lower and safer fuel pressure (around 90-95psi) and to linearize the A/F curve.

The catch is you have to find a good tuner, however.



2004 G35s auto (bone stock)
-----------------------------------
2002 s/c Accord V6 auto
so far best 1/4 mile - 13.9@101.8
coming soon: custom internals, cams, performance auto tranny w/LSD