Ox,

I don't have any release info on the G35 yet, but I wouldn't expect it to be long afterwards since it looks like the only difference will be a couple tubing changes. The pricing on Avalon's website is what they are quoting. ATI has not yet set a price for the kit. The only comment I got from them is that they were expecting it to be about $500 above their Honda kits. Is it safer than turbos? That really depends on the turbo kit. If definitely can't be worse. With an SC, boost is always proportional to rpms and the fuel ramp up is gradual compared to turbos. If you punch it in a turbo car, you could jump from no boost to 15 lbs in a second. You are only safe from detonation if your fuel system can ramp up quick enough. This is why turbo tuners recommend much richer A/F ratios that SC tuners(11-11.5:1 vs. 12-12.5:1).

As far as the ECU goes, you have to look at several factors. I have also seen were some people have added mid-pipes or intakes and not seen any difference. This has to do with the self-learning in the ECU. If you have lazy habits, the response in the ECU will back down and you won't see as much of a gain. You should always reset the ECU self learning when adding bolt-ons so it will go into a more active sensor more and change the base map indexes. If you drive the car lazily after that, the response will go away again.

Reseting the ECU won't happen by just disconnecting the negative battery terminal for a minute. A quick test for this is unplug your MAF harness from the MAF sensor. The car won't start and you will get and engine light. Plug the sensor back in and it will start and run normal, but you still have that pesky light. Disconnect the negative battery cable at night and leave it like that over night. You plug it in the next morning and guess what? That light is back. You have to disconnect the negative battery cable for 24-48 hours to reset the ECU. There are of course 2 other ways to do this. One is to go to a dealer and have them reset it with a Consult. The other is to go through manual diagnostic mode by turning the pot on the ECU. You basically get access to the side of the ECU where the mode set is. You turn the key on and turn the switch forward. This sets it in code prefix mode. Turn it back and forward again. This is code post-fix mode. Turn it back and forward again. This is rest mode. Turn it back and turn the key off. Each time you turn the switch on the ECU you should wait a few seconds. Most find an immediate significant difference after resetting the ECU for their bolt-ons. The computer will now learn the additional airflow capability and adjust accordingly. Some peole lose their gains do to their driving habits and reset the ECU regularly.

The discussion for adding a turbo or SC is very different from this. When you add these types of power adders, you are forcing signifcantly more air than the maps in the ECU allow. Most MAF's can read a lot more air than simple bolt-ons will add. A stock 220hp Maxima MAF will meter enough air for 375 hp. A Z-TT MAF will meter about 500 hp worth of air. The injectors on Nissans/Infinitis are not the large pieces that Supras come with. The injectors will max out a lot quicker. The stock maps in the ECU only allow for a maximum of 20-30% variance. Once you reach the end of a map, it stay at the last point until it re-enters the map. If your peak duty cycle is 20 ms, then that is all you get. If you have an SC on your car and the MAF is increasing the airflow reading so you hit your peak 20ms duty cycle at 4000 rpms, then that's all the fuel you can get. So from here, we cheat. There are only 3 ways to get around from here: a custom ECU with bigger injectors, sending different signals to the ECU through an interface box to change the output(TRD Camry method) or use an FMU. An FMU increases fuel pressure as boost rises to force more fuel through an injector for the same time it is open. The downside is that a MAF is still increasing fuel requirements until it leaves the maps so you have a double richening effect until this happens. So they are usually very rich at tipin and smoothen out with rpms. The ECU won't trip any trouble codes from reachign the end of the map, so everything works well. I ran 9.5 lbs of boost on my 10:1 compression Maxima without an intercooler for a couple of years without a problem like this. The dangerous part is that you don't have control of the timing under boost, so it has to be extra rich and you need to run cool pluds. I went to an adjustable ECU to set the tipin better and eliminate the double-richening effect. The only other thing you have to look at is what happens when you lift off. If the forced induction system is after the MAF and you lift off, the blow off valve will very air that is meter and not have it go through the engine. This immediately makes the car rich. this is the way it is most commonly done, because rich is safe. You could go to a blow-through MAF where the MAP is after the discharge side of the compressor. It will meter more accurate, but you can rich damaging the MAF due to the pressure. This is what Still did on their early Maxima SC kits.



04' G35 Coupe(on order)
6-sp Diamond Graphite/Willow w/Premium<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by Loren04Coupe on 06/09/03 05:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

At Lipps stated you should look at more than just peak numbers. When looking at dynos always think about the "area under the curve." The only advantage a roots blower has is if you are constantly short shifting. Actual HP is a rating of torque at a specific rpm. With a 6-sp coupe, if you are drag racing or road racing then all that matters is whats above 4500 rpms. Why? Because if you are shifting at or near redline to get the most out of your power for each gear. When you get into the next gear you will never be below 4500 rpms. What difference does it make if you make 10 more hp at the wheels at 2500 rpms if your not at 2500 rpms? At 3500 rpms, the Procharger is already 10 hp ahead of Stillen. At 4000 it is 15 hp. At 5000 rpms it is 40 hp. At 6000 rpms it is over 60 hp ahead. Keep in mind that this is at the wheels and multiple times 1.15-1.2 to get flywheel(rated) HP. So how does the the Procharger make more power when it actually has less boost at mid rpms? The Centrifugal compressor is simply far more effiecient and the air charge is denser from the intercooler. Surprisingly, the Procharger torque curve is pretty flat from 4000 rpms to redline. The Procharger simply has far more torque(also hp) everywhere above 3300 rpms over the Stillen kit. The only advantage the Stillen kit has is getting off the line. Beyond that, it is all over. The Procharger simply has a lot more area under the power curve to work with so there is no possible way the Stillen kit could be close on any measure of performance. If the Stillen kit made more power and say the Procharger only pushed ahead above 6000 rpms, then it could be possible for the Stillen kit to have more "area under the curve" and be the better choice, but this is not the case. I hope this helps people under stand the differences.

Even saying all that, I don't believe this will be the best form of performance. I think it will be the most driveable without any compromises from a bolt-on kit. The turbo kits should be better for overall performance though. At the same boost they are guarenteed to give more power since they aren't losing power driving the compressor. Greddy has chosen to use 2 very large turbos for their kit that go far beyond what the stock motor is capable on. They are betting on people looking at the kit and upgrading to better internals later on. So, lag is going to be noticeable and spool will be far later than what a lot of people would want. If they made a turbo starter kit without the big 18G bushed turbos and instead you could go with a smaller more efficient cartridge and wheels, then you could get much better low speed response, spool up and eliminate lag all with more power than an SC can provide. Someone on another post suggested GT28 turbos and I also think this would be the best setup. A GT28 has a T04S based wheels with 80% with a full dual ball bearing cartridge and can support 280 hp each. With only 10 psi of boost, I would expect around 440 rwhp and full boost from 2500 rpms-on. Putting something like this together may be cost prohibitive, so I think ATI is the best solution right now.

04' G35 Coupe(on order)
6-sp Diamond Graphite/Willow w/Premium

 

Its seems that Avalon is trying to make some money on the kits. Here is pricing from another dealer that is selling them now:

http://www.superchargersonline.com/p...ProductID=1664

Yes, the retail price is $5996, but they are selling it for about 25% less. The big question is, how long will it be before they make the tubing changes to have a kit for the Coupe? Well they show it as fitting the Coupe, but I am not sure if it is correct. If so, I suspect Christmas is coming early for a few of us.

04' G35 Coupe(on order)
6-sp Diamond Graphite/Willow w/Premium