DynoDay Logs... PE TT..some interesting points...
DynoDay Logs... PE TT..some interesting points...
Hey Guys
As you may know, we out here in socal hada dyno day yesterday, and the results wil be posted by Tony soon (he's got all the data), and i will post by dyno sheet when i get it scanned.
As some of you know, I have been using the InnovateMotorsports modular data logging suite. A veery big thanks to them for sponsoring me, which allows me to present to you this great suite of data.
The car today:
5AT G35 sedan
PE TT
AEBS sleeved (3.5L)/decked block
Arias 9.3:1 pistons, Pouter rods.
PE 510cc injectors
CJM FPR correction kit, and 1:1 PE FPR (short loop fuel return, ala APS)
Stock Fuel rails (AAM ones going in this week).
TechnoSquare reflash (specially developed/custom).
My data logging setup:
I was logging DUAL BANK AFR durign these runs. I have my primary LM-1 wideband (pink trace) sensor in bank 2 (p-side) downpipe, and a second LC-1 wideband controller and sensor in bank 1 (red trace, d-side). Both use identical Bosch wideband sensors (also used in all the Audi's and VW's) calibrated at the same time under the same conditions.
Here are some results that i logged during the dyno runs:
Look at the graphs for a while, noting the legend in the upper rt. hand corner. This is the overlay screen in LogWorks. In the first overlay, I compare 8.5 to 11 psi runs, while in the second, my 9.3 ans 12.3 psi runs.
First: I made 390/405 (hp/trq) at 8.5psi (which as you see tapers down as you go up the rpm band), while at 12.x psi, I made ~428/440 (hp/trq). The first run is very much in the ballpark, but my HP and torque curves drop off pretty rapidly on the to end. When I ppost the dyno, you will see what I mean. These three pieces of evidence, the hp drop off on top, boost taper, and a relatively small power increase between 8.5 and 12 psi (i should probably have been about 20 hp/torque units higher at 12psi, but that's just an educated guess) all end support to a restrictive Stillen Exhaust being the culprit. Tony (Hydrazine) has already done some very good scientific research into the Stillen exhaust, and you can ask him to comment more on it, but it is also fairly obvious that 400-500 hp and 8-12 psi of boost (and more in the future) cannot be suppoted by an exhaust that ultimately (in the muffler can) only has a single 2.5" opening.
Second: Note the difference in the bank one (red AFR trace) and bank two (pink AFR trace) as I get to the top end, especially on my 11 and 12 psi runs. The d-side bank consistently runs a tad (some times 'as much as' 0.5 AFR units) leaner than the p-side bank. What I am getting at, as you may have guessed, is whether this leaner condition on the d-side is caused by the reallythin fuel rail crossover to the d-side fuel rail from the p-side 'main' fuel rail?
Third: An intersting observation. At 8psi I already start to reach 5V on the MAF sensor (not logged here, no room) at 4200+ rpm. You can very well see how the fuel map is responding to this. The green "DWELL" trace is the injector duty cycle (taken from the #1 injector), and, BTW, it tops out at around 77% duty, right where I want it to be (maybe another 5% more or so would be safe). You can see that at some point the duty cycle curves for all the different boost runs converge, i.e. are not higher than the other on the count of load. Here is a chart from LogWorks that shows MAF voltage with resepct to RPM and Boost on a few runs that I made before dyno day (at 8 and 11 psi settings); here you can see that the MAF voltage can be slightly different at different load (boost) and identical RPM settings, that is below the pegged 4.9x V values (the limit of the AuxBox voltage recording).
This, combined with the DWELL traces above suggests a couple of things, at least provisionally until more data is available, at least to me:
1) The injector duy cycle tops out at just under 77% AS I reach (presumably subject to logging of MAF voltage and confirming then) 5V on the MAF output, i.e. AS i 'run out' of map. It's nice to see graphically that from the point where the two green traces converge, you can see the AFR get leaner compared to lower boost traces. WHile the MAF is still 'in range' (under ~5000rpm), you can still see the AFR being fairly constant while the injector duty cycle is greater at the higher boost setting, i.e. different parts of the map are being used to maintain the AFR. Don't mind the fact that the entire AFR is too rich, it is, i just need to lower the base fuel pressure to achieve this (it's been a little high after applying phunk's correction kit). A slightly higher than 1:1 rate FPR would probably allow me to keep a more constant AFR throughout the boost settings. Looking at the CarTech FPR for this (anyone know anything about this FPR?)
2) MAF Voltage of above 4.5V ARE in fact usable for load calculations by the ECU, even though an NA car, even that which is relatively well modified, sees no more than 4.5V at full load at redline. So, we do have the range of up to 5V instead of 4.5 to tune. I'll make some more runs logging MAF for this.
Next, i will be installing a fuel pressure transducers and logging FP before and after the fuel rails to note whether there is a drop pre-post injectors (on AAM rails only, will not have the time to do it fro the stock rails, although it would make it an arguably more useful experiment). That should be interesting as well
What do you guys think?
As you may know, we out here in socal hada dyno day yesterday, and the results wil be posted by Tony soon (he's got all the data), and i will post by dyno sheet when i get it scanned.
As some of you know, I have been using the InnovateMotorsports modular data logging suite. A veery big thanks to them for sponsoring me, which allows me to present to you this great suite of data.
The car today:
5AT G35 sedan
PE TT
AEBS sleeved (3.5L)/decked block
Arias 9.3:1 pistons, Pouter rods.
PE 510cc injectors
CJM FPR correction kit, and 1:1 PE FPR (short loop fuel return, ala APS)
Stock Fuel rails (AAM ones going in this week).
TechnoSquare reflash (specially developed/custom).
My data logging setup:
I was logging DUAL BANK AFR durign these runs. I have my primary LM-1 wideband (pink trace) sensor in bank 2 (p-side) downpipe, and a second LC-1 wideband controller and sensor in bank 1 (red trace, d-side). Both use identical Bosch wideband sensors (also used in all the Audi's and VW's) calibrated at the same time under the same conditions.
Here are some results that i logged during the dyno runs:
Look at the graphs for a while, noting the legend in the upper rt. hand corner. This is the overlay screen in LogWorks. In the first overlay, I compare 8.5 to 11 psi runs, while in the second, my 9.3 ans 12.3 psi runs.
First: I made 390/405 (hp/trq) at 8.5psi (which as you see tapers down as you go up the rpm band), while at 12.x psi, I made ~428/440 (hp/trq). The first run is very much in the ballpark, but my HP and torque curves drop off pretty rapidly on the to end. When I ppost the dyno, you will see what I mean. These three pieces of evidence, the hp drop off on top, boost taper, and a relatively small power increase between 8.5 and 12 psi (i should probably have been about 20 hp/torque units higher at 12psi, but that's just an educated guess) all end support to a restrictive Stillen Exhaust being the culprit. Tony (Hydrazine) has already done some very good scientific research into the Stillen exhaust, and you can ask him to comment more on it, but it is also fairly obvious that 400-500 hp and 8-12 psi of boost (and more in the future) cannot be suppoted by an exhaust that ultimately (in the muffler can) only has a single 2.5" opening.
Second: Note the difference in the bank one (red AFR trace) and bank two (pink AFR trace) as I get to the top end, especially on my 11 and 12 psi runs. The d-side bank consistently runs a tad (some times 'as much as' 0.5 AFR units) leaner than the p-side bank. What I am getting at, as you may have guessed, is whether this leaner condition on the d-side is caused by the reallythin fuel rail crossover to the d-side fuel rail from the p-side 'main' fuel rail?
Third: An intersting observation. At 8psi I already start to reach 5V on the MAF sensor (not logged here, no room) at 4200+ rpm. You can very well see how the fuel map is responding to this. The green "DWELL" trace is the injector duty cycle (taken from the #1 injector), and, BTW, it tops out at around 77% duty, right where I want it to be (maybe another 5% more or so would be safe). You can see that at some point the duty cycle curves for all the different boost runs converge, i.e. are not higher than the other on the count of load. Here is a chart from LogWorks that shows MAF voltage with resepct to RPM and Boost on a few runs that I made before dyno day (at 8 and 11 psi settings); here you can see that the MAF voltage can be slightly different at different load (boost) and identical RPM settings, that is below the pegged 4.9x V values (the limit of the AuxBox voltage recording).
This, combined with the DWELL traces above suggests a couple of things, at least provisionally until more data is available, at least to me:
1) The injector duy cycle tops out at just under 77% AS I reach (presumably subject to logging of MAF voltage and confirming then) 5V on the MAF output, i.e. AS i 'run out' of map. It's nice to see graphically that from the point where the two green traces converge, you can see the AFR get leaner compared to lower boost traces. WHile the MAF is still 'in range' (under ~5000rpm), you can still see the AFR being fairly constant while the injector duty cycle is greater at the higher boost setting, i.e. different parts of the map are being used to maintain the AFR. Don't mind the fact that the entire AFR is too rich, it is, i just need to lower the base fuel pressure to achieve this (it's been a little high after applying phunk's correction kit). A slightly higher than 1:1 rate FPR would probably allow me to keep a more constant AFR throughout the boost settings. Looking at the CarTech FPR for this (anyone know anything about this FPR?)
2) MAF Voltage of above 4.5V ARE in fact usable for load calculations by the ECU, even though an NA car, even that which is relatively well modified, sees no more than 4.5V at full load at redline. So, we do have the range of up to 5V instead of 4.5 to tune. I'll make some more runs logging MAF for this.
Next, i will be installing a fuel pressure transducers and logging FP before and after the fuel rails to note whether there is a drop pre-post injectors (on AAM rails only, will not have the time to do it fro the stock rails, although it would make it an arguably more useful experiment). That should be interesting as well
What do you guys think?
Last edited by GurgenPB; Jul 17, 2005 at 06:47 PM.
i love you, man. you do all the work so we can benefit from it. . .as always, a total pleasure to read. Why did I have to work yesterday!? DOH!! Are you going to the "beach meet" in a few weeks? -drew-
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