So who will trade in for a hybrid
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Orange County
So who will trade in for a hybrid
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6432...010/index.html
Nissan is close to finishing its own hybrid technology for its luxury brand Infiniti, says Infiniti National Dealer Advisory Board chairman John Capps. Speaking with Automotive News, Capps also revealed that a new M sedan and QX SUV will pop up soon as well-but what dealers really want is another near-luxury entry to compete with the BMW 3-series.
Nissan currently sources its hybrid technology from Toyota, and the only application is in the Nissan Altima hybrid. Infiniti's new hybrid system is likely to compare to Lexus', which provides a better balance of performance and fuel economy rather than strictly improving fuel economy. Capps said the hybrid should be ready in 2010, but did not say which vehicle in the lineup would get the hybrid system.
When asked what dealers are really looking forward to, Capps says their top priority "is to get deeper into the near-luxury segment with another entry. That's the biggest-volume segment within our luxury business, with about 600,000 units sold last year." Infiniti's current entry is the Infiniti G, which is available in sedan, coupe and convertible configurations. Infiniti sold 64,181 G cars last year, which accounted for 56 percent of its sales. BMW moved twice as many 3-series units in the same time.
Capps also says dealers are looking for another luxury crossover. Citing the EX and FX as niche models, Capps and other dealers want a vehicle similar to Lexus' RX, a high-volume vehicle with good utility. The new EX is too small, and doesn't have enough utility for the "soccer moms" Infiniti dealers want to target with a luxury crossover.
Capps would like to see Infiniti reach its long-time goal of becoming a top-tier luxury automaker in the vein of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. In order to achieve the high volume its competitors have achieved, dealers want Infiniti to mimic the business model of its German rivals rather than Lexus': a few high-volume sellers complemented by an expanded lineup of niche models.
Nissan currently sources its hybrid technology from Toyota, and the only application is in the Nissan Altima hybrid. Infiniti's new hybrid system is likely to compare to Lexus', which provides a better balance of performance and fuel economy rather than strictly improving fuel economy. Capps said the hybrid should be ready in 2010, but did not say which vehicle in the lineup would get the hybrid system.
When asked what dealers are really looking forward to, Capps says their top priority "is to get deeper into the near-luxury segment with another entry. That's the biggest-volume segment within our luxury business, with about 600,000 units sold last year." Infiniti's current entry is the Infiniti G, which is available in sedan, coupe and convertible configurations. Infiniti sold 64,181 G cars last year, which accounted for 56 percent of its sales. BMW moved twice as many 3-series units in the same time.
Capps also says dealers are looking for another luxury crossover. Citing the EX and FX as niche models, Capps and other dealers want a vehicle similar to Lexus' RX, a high-volume vehicle with good utility. The new EX is too small, and doesn't have enough utility for the "soccer moms" Infiniti dealers want to target with a luxury crossover.
Capps would like to see Infiniti reach its long-time goal of becoming a top-tier luxury automaker in the vein of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. In order to achieve the high volume its competitors have achieved, dealers want Infiniti to mimic the business model of its German rivals rather than Lexus': a few high-volume sellers complemented by an expanded lineup of niche models.
I wouldn't. Not quite sure hybrid technology is where it needs to be yet for me to seriously consider one as a purchase. Right now, the fuel savings you get takes a long time to recoop when you factor in the extra vehicle cost. Plus the potential cost of replacing battier or motors once out of warranty.
I applaud automakers for continuing to pour R&D into hybrid technology but right now the people buying them seem more interested in public perception of driving a hybrid rather than the fact that their vehicle used up more energy resources to produce than a typical gas vehicle. Instead of the pollution coming from the tailpipe..it came from the factory that produced the nickel in the batteries.
I applaud automakers for continuing to pour R&D into hybrid technology but right now the people buying them seem more interested in public perception of driving a hybrid rather than the fact that their vehicle used up more energy resources to produce than a typical gas vehicle. Instead of the pollution coming from the tailpipe..it came from the factory that produced the nickel in the batteries.
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From: Orlando
I probably wouldn't go for a hybrid either.
But if Nissan made a fuel cell car (Hydrogen) I would be all over that. Check out some of the videos out there. It's really cool. the BMW hydrogen 7 series, or the new Honda Clarity. Apparently, they have a fleet of them in the hands of normal consumers in California. There's actually several hydrogen stations (just like gas stations) in the US right now. There's one literally minutes from my house. And compressed hydrogen is around the same price as gasoline (well probably moderately more expensive since prices are low right now).
But if Nissan made a fuel cell car (Hydrogen) I would be all over that. Check out some of the videos out there. It's really cool. the BMW hydrogen 7 series, or the new Honda Clarity. Apparently, they have a fleet of them in the hands of normal consumers in California. There's actually several hydrogen stations (just like gas stations) in the US right now. There's one literally minutes from my house. And compressed hydrogen is around the same price as gasoline (well probably moderately more expensive since prices are low right now).
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Joined: Mar 2003
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No way man, I wouldn't trade for a hybrid. A hybrid system is a lot of extra weight for not much gain. If someone made a hybrid designed for performance, not efficiency, I would do it instantly. Gas engines are weak at low RPM, electrics are most powerful at low RPM, you put the two together and you get an amazing powertrain.
I think that one day I will own a gas powered car for long trips, since electrics aren't good long range, and hopefully a small electric sports car, since that's where the fun will be in the future.
I think that one day I will own a gas powered car for long trips, since electrics aren't good long range, and hopefully a small electric sports car, since that's where the fun will be in the future.
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Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Oklahoma
With the gas prices last summer, I started thinking about it. Especially when I got closer to my extended warranty expiring in just under 2 years from now.
Now, I figure I'll try to keep my car another 4 years, maybe 8. I just recently went over 54K, so the big thing is the worry of getting new car desire, and getting upset with little dings.
Now, I figure I'll try to keep my car another 4 years, maybe 8. I just recently went over 54K, so the big thing is the worry of getting new car desire, and getting upset with little dings.
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From: Wisconsin
Give me my 8 M.P.G. Blown Nitrous injected Big Block anyday over a Hybrid. Until a Hybrid's battery is made that when discarded will not cause more destruction than my vehicle over the course of its lifetime I will never consider a hybrid. I used to argue with my former boss over his "perfect" prius and how it will pollute the earth for years.
The following is most of the reason why GM is trying to use Lithium Ion batteries in its Volt.
Not my words but a great read.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the dead zone around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.
The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce nickel foam. From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called Dust to Dust, the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
The following is most of the reason why GM is trying to use Lithium Ion batteries in its Volt.
Not my words but a great read.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the dead zone around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.
The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce nickel foam. From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called Dust to Dust, the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
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From: PNW in Washington
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Yup....knew all that long time ago. Thanx for the refresh and knowledge to others.
Isn't lithium bad stuff too in producing and disposing of once those batteries are spent.
Hydrogen fuel cell FTW imho....
Isn't lithium bad stuff too in producing and disposing of once those batteries are spent.
Hydrogen fuel cell FTW imho....
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 374
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Nah, lithium is non-toxic and it's one of the more plentiful elements on the planet. I've been messing with high power lithium batteries for years. Lithium is used to treat some mental diseases, for example, so eating it isn't harmful either 
Extracting and processing the lithium could be a whole other story, though. I think it may be quite energy intensive to refine it, but I'm not sure.
Extracting and processing the lithium could be a whole other story, though. I think it may be quite energy intensive to refine it, but I'm not sure.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 21,095
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From: Toronto, GTA north
I wouldn't. Not quite sure hybrid technology is where it needs to be yet for me to seriously consider one as a purchase. Right now, the fuel savings you get takes a long time to recoop when you factor in the extra vehicle cost. Plus the potential cost of replacing battier or motors once out of warranty.
I applaud automakers for continuing to pour R&D into hybrid technology but right now the people buying them seem more interested in public perception of driving a hybrid rather than the fact that their vehicle used up more energy resources to produce than a typical gas vehicle. Instead of the pollution coming from the tailpipe..it came from the factory that produced the nickel in the batteries.
I applaud automakers for continuing to pour R&D into hybrid technology but right now the people buying them seem more interested in public perception of driving a hybrid rather than the fact that their vehicle used up more energy resources to produce than a typical gas vehicle. Instead of the pollution coming from the tailpipe..it came from the factory that produced the nickel in the batteries.
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