finally KBB updated our cars...
i'm qutie impressive of our values(as i expected it)...
my private party value came out 34,700(AT fully loaded)...
BTW i remember we had big discussion which tranny holds better values and looks like i was right AT holds better if both with same miles and options(sometimes people don't go with KBB but at least KBB is the major source to get the idea of what's each car worth so)...
AT fully loaded 37,545(mine)
MT fully loaded 38,???(not sure)
if both conditions are pefect with same mileage it will come out as same amount...34,700 either tranny with 2100 miles on it... i'm not sure about w/o fully loaded since i never bother to tried it...and if our g keep up with this rate our 5year values will be around 50% as KBB mentioned b4...

 

oh yeah MrElussive, since u got lease but if you own one you will be very happy to see http://kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/ke.kb.sp?kb...cpe;newsletter
bye bye best resale value BMW here goes infiniti...
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by uheenada on 11/02/03 04:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

just checked kbb.com and my car right now is worth more than i paid new for it! damn skippy!

2003.5 sedan - 5AT, Silver/Graphite, Sport, Aero, Bose, Sunroof, & 1 defunct air freshener..

 

yes .. it does come out the exact same with the same options shown there, if you click 6mt or auto.

BUT, what is not listed is the fact that you cannot get the brembo's with auto.. and that alot of the other "standard options" that come with the 6MT are not "standard" on the auto, therefore that is a general guideline.

With the standard options on the 6MT in comparison to the auto, the 6mt is worth more, thats why it sells for more initially, I know you mean thereafter the initial purchase, but by using KBB.. its not specific enough to be able to differentiate the options and price of the components included with the 6MT and or the auto.
__________________________________________________ _
BTW i remember we had big discussion which tranny holds better values and looks like i was right AT holds better if both with same miles and options(sometimes people don't go with KBB but at least KBB is the major source to get the idea of what's each car worth so)...
__________________________________________________ _

umm, no therefore "as I expected" your using one source which has no idea of the standards that make up a 6mt or auto, regardless if it is "loaded" or not, except for the fact that one is manual and the other a slushbox. Not all of the options are listed there is my point, let alone available to a auto configged car.

 

umm.. no
brembo doesn't matter when you sell 6MT because not that many people care about brembo brakes and brembo brake pads and rotors are much more expensive than standard, people don't wanna pay high $$ for wear and tear items and this can be negative toward brembos and kbb always put standard options and never put complicated options(such as M packages in MBW and SMG options) and also about auto and 6mt standard options, if i remember correctly, standard AT cars gets more than what you paid for (32550) and really 6mt only come with 18s and brembo compare to 17s and non brembo... so if you choose premium wheels it says 33,1?? which less than what you paid for... and do you mind give me your source that shows brembo and every single options that can choose from and more accurate than kbb? i thought 99% people visit kbb b4 they sell their cars... might you are exception? higher end model != holds better value...for example honda accord LX V6 > EX V6... unless g35coupe is a sports car, AT always holds better... BTW AT got big azz demand compare to 6mt... oh yeah b4 you say anything again about demand i'll give you an example...
one infiniti dealer, they have 75 gcoupe in stock
60(80% of 75 just like in reality) cars in lot is AT and 50 people wants AT...
15(20%) cars in lot is MT and 20 people wants it...
if you were infiniti or dealer, which one will you stock more?? if you choose MT then therefore, i can't help you no longer...
if i were them, i would stock more AT with variety options and colors for people than stock more 6mt.... 6mt usually don't care about options sa much as AT people... in other words, they are not that picky as AT people... and infiniti is think just about same as me that's why you don't see many 6mt and 6mt always short on stock because they just settle down with what dealer got usually...
now prove me which part i'm wrong and please provide examples so i can understand it too... oh yeah and don't even think about comparing 2 trannies into sports cars...

 

DUDE. you said it yourself, auto's loaded and 6MT loaded, which is more expensive initially? 6MT ... WHY? because it has better parts on it stock! right .. YES
therefore more expensive initially and thereafter.

dont tell me (not that many people care about brembo brakes and brembo brake pads and rotors are much more expensive than standard, people don't wanna pay high $$ for wear and tear items and this can be negative toward brembos )

THATS ridiculous. do you even hear yourself?
People want brembo's because they are awesome and look great but can only get em on the 6MT.

So, its like buying a civic with nothing .. and then buying the top of the line civic... which one, when it comes to resale is going to be more expensive? the one with NOTHING thats auto? NO, the one with it all regardless of tranny that suits the individual.

here let me make it easier for you... take a 6 cylinder mustang ... and compare the price to the 8 cylinder mustang, which one is more expensive initially and thereafter? .. WHY

Point is, manual transmission is the only way to get the brembo brakes, EVERYTHING thereafter has to be "added" on when you buy the auto, the only thing you have a choice here in Canada with is whether you want NAV or not with a 6 speed, auto's here like there are addable, therefore .. not Infiniti's idea of flagship for that model.

and one more thing .. FORGET KBB

go to autotrader.ca not com .. and LOOK FOR YOURSELF !!

 

Just a quick interjection on this issue, having owned only manual transmision cars (one exception, a 93 Lexus SC400 - no manual available) and having sold each one individually.

Typically, with manual transmission cars, you are selling to a narrowly defined consumer. That consumer is typically looking for a vehicle that speaks to their individual perception of what constitutes a performance vehicle, or a vehicle with performance intentions. In reality, while AT cars typically command a higher KBB value, I have found that KBB, and Edmunds tend to ignore the subjective evaluation administered by potential buyers with respect to manual transmission in cars that are intended to focus on driving enthusiasts. In my personal experience, I was able to command a premium over automatic transmission models because my cars (1974 260Z, 1988 Acura Integra, 1993 Mistubishi Eclipse GSX, 1998 Nissan Maxima SE) have all been intended to be performance models. Additionally, in higher dollar vehicles (not talking about Porsches, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. whose typical audience may actually prefer a manual transmission), the manual is typically seen as an option, rather than standard, and as such, is usually manufactured in smaller quantities. That rarity also contributes to the premium that an individual owner/seller can command when selling or trading in a car. One caveat, is that a dealer is likely to depend on KBB's valuation, especially if it benefits him/ her.

Just my opinion.

 

Just a little theory of mine, but given that the supply and demand issue with 6MT vs 5AT (about 75% 5AT) was theoretically addressed at the factory, it would seem that resale should be about equivalent. However, while I was shopping for my car I was told that 6MTs we're "much harder to get" and that all of them were being sold in advance of their arrival at the dealership (in fairness this was almost as true of the 5AT models). I got lucky and put a deposit on one (exactly how I wanted it - DG/G/Prem/Nav/Aero) that was in the pipeline, a month before delivery in June.

I know for a fact that others potential buyers were clamoring for that particular car. Another salesman approached mine one day when I was there, (a couple of weeks after I'd put down the deposit), and BEGGED him to give up the car. No way. I can only imagine it happened several other times when I didn't happen to be there. Out of about 235 cars within a 150 radius of me shown in dealer stock on the Infiniti website when I took delivery, mine was one of only two that were configured identically.

There's no quetstion that Infiniti underestimated demand for the coupe overall; initial estimates of 12,000 2003 units being produced were eventually doubled. It seems to me that they may have also underestimated the demand for 6MT models, and that when resale time comes, clean ones may fetch MORE than 5ATs. Time will tell...

 

you and BMW3toG35C confusing with more money = better value.. but it's wrong let me explain again(i did explained last time but here we go again)
first since DallyCurtis gave example with mustang i'll use it also...
2004 mustang V6 msrp 20k(edmunds)
2004 mustang V8 msrp 26k(edmunds)
i really don't know their resale percentage but let's assume mustang holds 45% after 5years
V6 mustang 20k * 45 = 9000
V8 mustang 26k * 45 = 11700
now you see V8 mustang lost 2700 more therfore,
V6 mustang cost after 5 years would be 11,000
V8 mustang cost after 5 years would be 14,300
now choose which one is holds/better resale value?
if you choose V8 one because it got 3300 more than V6 then your are not fully understanding how resale works... higher resale doesn't equal better value... V6 mustang holds much better than V8 one... you see my point here? there are 6k difference when it's brand new but after 5 years it's reduced to 3300...
and for Civic DX and Civic EX
civic DX 14k
civic EX 18k
civic will hold about 50% after 5years:
DX lost 7k while EX lost 9k...
5year old EX cost 9k where DX cost 7k... yes EX gets more retail price but that doesn't mean it's better value...
MB SL 55 AMG 120,000 they will loss about 50% after 5year also which 60,000 they lost 60k over 5years...
according to your theory SL should be the best resale value car but actually it's one of most worst resale value car... i hope you understand how it works now...
for G35coupe, will hold 49%(this means all trims.. it's not like oh AT will get 20% and brembo MT will get 50%, they are all equal) after 5years therefore,
base g35 cost 30k while MT g35 cost 33k(from edmunds)
base g35 will loss 14700
while MT will loss 16170
5year old used base g will cost 15,300
5year old used 6MT c will cost 16,830
now 3k difference at the beginning now reduced to 1,530... do you still think 6MT will hold more?? 6MT will be worst resale values(regardless of transmission simply math) unless 6MT gets addition 5-7% more values(but it's not gonna happen and never seen any cars with different values by trim levels if you find one please tell me) or 6MT is so rare that you can't find one and pay primium to it(and this will not goona happen also hell even nsx MT is easy to find without paying premium(NSX sold around 120cars a year according to hondanews.com you think gcoupe is more rarer than NSX?)... understand this, as car prices go up, it lose more money(come on common sense)... Example Civic DX and SL 55 AMG...
and yes time will tell... i can't wait till see the results...

P.S i'm sorry to blow up your bubbles, but CIVIC DX(known as tripped trim like you said) has best resale value in entire honda lineup/small compact car category... now what?<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by uheenada on 11/05/03 12:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Unfortunately, it appears that you have missed the point of my message, as I am not equating greater resale amount with greater value. Clearly, if one vehicle retails for a greater amount but loses an equal percentage of value as compared to a lower trim model, then the amount of value loss will be greater. However, that presumes that a top trim level vehicle will lose the exact same amount of value as a lower trim level model. If that is the case with the G35 coupe, then you will be proven correct. However, as I indicated in my previous post, there is a phenomenon which ostensibly defies conventional notions of AT vs. MT vehicle valuations, such that MT buyers are willing to go out of their way to purchase an MT over an AT. Further, MT proponents will typically ignore AT vehicles, despite a lower sale price, in favor of a more expensive MT.

Additionally, the tenor of your post is terribly defensive and suggests that perhaps you are taking this subject matter a bit too seriously. This is evident in your statements with regard to the NSX. I do not recall making any comparison to the NSX and the availability of a manual transmission in that car. I would hazard a guess that those who are in the hunt for a pre-owned NSX would likely prefer an MT and would either pay more for an MT, or simply pass on the AT.

Lastly, there is no need for condescension in responding. If you disagree with my opinion, I have no objection to that. You are certainly permitted to have an opinion, as are we all. However, please don't imply that I lack common sense, simply because I have observed from my own practical experience, that your supposition may be incorrect, or at least limited in scope and application.

By the way, you have not burst my bubble, and I would like to offer you the following corrections for your post:
"MB SL 55 AMG 120,000 they will loss about 50%" Will lose, not loss.
"base g35 will loss 14700, while MT will loss 16170". Lose, not loss.
"6MT will be worst resale values" 6MT will have the worst resale value.
"but actually it's one of most worst resale value car" Sorry, I can't really work with that.
"you think gcoupe is more rarer than NSX?" I believe you meant to write, "You think the gcoupe is rarer than the NSX?" Adding the word "more" is redundant, as "rarer" is already a modification of the adjective "rare". By adding the "er" to rare, you obviate the need for the modifier "more".

"understand this, as car prices go up, it lose more money(come on common sense)" Loses. Not lose. The third person singular conjugation of the verb "to lose" in the present tense is "loses".

"I hope you understand how it works now." I do.

 

"there is a phenomenon which ostensibly defies conventional notions of AT vs. MT vehicle valuations, such that MT buyers are willing to go out of their way to purchase an MT over an AT. Further, MT proponents will typically ignore AT vehicles, despite a lower sale price, in favor of a more expensive MT"
isn't that equal to
"6MT is so rare that you can't find one and pay primium to it" that i said before?

"Unfortunately, it appears that you have missed the point of my message, as I am not equating greater resale amount with greater value."
umm.. where did i said you didn't get it?

"presumes that a top trim level vehicle will lose the exact same amount of value as a lower trim level model. If that is the case with the G35 coupe, then you will be proven correct"
KBB said all trim levels will get same %(read it on somewhere kbb.com but i'll find that article later) therefore, i was right first time "not you will be proven correct" i already proven correct...

"AT vs. MT vehicle valuations"
looks like my original post was not clear enough.. it wasn't compare b/w two tranny, it was compare b/w base trim(AT) vs. top end trim(MT)... i should've said base trim will hold more rather say AT holds better than MT since it might offend to MT drivers... i'll apologize on this...

"Additionally, the tenor of your post is terribly defensive and suggests that perhaps you are taking this subject matter a bit too seriously."
no i didn't... if you read it again my tone was very soft(at least to me... never used any bad words etc..)

"This is evident in your statements with regard to the NSX. I do not recall making any comparison to the NSX and the availability of a manual transmission in that car. "
that's very simple example of how rare is NSX and still a lot of people don't pay premiums on NSX(or very small amount if they want really fast) therefore, 6MT will not be so difficult to find later which support of my thought on 6MT will not going to have any premium to it(unless owner willing to pay if they ask like you said).. BTW 90% of sales on NSX is manual and people will have more hard time finding AT NSX than MT one...

"You are certainly permitted to have an opinion,"
everything i replied was based on kbb.com and it's very trustable "facts" not just opinion... tell me which part is opinion?

"please don't imply that I lack common sense"
I'm so sorry if you feel offended with that comment

"that your supposition may be incorrect"
my statement is very true, but the new buyers don't go with kbb.com simply because they want a car ASAP that's why they are willing to pay "premiums"... that's optional not requirement IMO... if you are not in hurry, then shop around most of time you will get price quoted same or below kbb.com... again many(not all since there are tons of people willing to pay more to get a car ASAP) used NSX even sold at kbb.com price or below(if the vehicle has high mileage)... so if you think i'm incorrect because of certain vehicles that need premium to it, and want to call all my facts incorrect then be my guest call it incorrect since at least my facts can't be correct everytime...

"By the way, you have not burst my bubble"
that wasn't toward you and you never mentioned bubble...

and about the third person singular conjugation of the verb, almost everyone just type it and never make corrections on the internet(who's gonna grade it? or pick on it?) but looks like you are exceptions... anyway thanks for corrections and you don't have to do it next time to anybody cuz they don't care...

"I hope you understand how it works now"
it wasn't toward to you either...

my most reply message was toward to "DallyCurtis"... and DallyCurtis, i think your upset because you paid a lot more for your 6MT but gets worst resale value, and my original post might look alike put 6mt cars down but it was acutally not... i was referring AT g as base trim and 6MT as top trim level and since kbb said all trims of gcoupe will get 49% after 5years, so i was simply said base trim(AT) will holds more/better... i'll apologize any offensive terms(if i have any)

 

Well mkmbt, I have to say, I agree with everything you noted.

What I will say, is that if I was in the market for a used G, I would not buy a AT. I would buy a MT, why? because it's what I want. Now, with that plainly and simply in mind how much less would I be willing to pay for a AT? simple answer.... Nothing, I wouldn't buy one. How much more would I pay for a 6MT over a AT, well lets just say more.

My point is that like mkmbt said, I like others that have 6mt's bought them for a reason, and that reason is they are the top trim and have the options we want. With that in mind, what will someone pay for a used one thereafter, simple, depends on what they are willing to part with and what they are getting in return.

So, you on any given day may get just as much as me in a sale, but if the buyer knew he could have a 6MT (and drive one which I tend to think you cannot) then I would think he'd go for the top trim if it suited him and wanted to spend "extra"

Remember the supra's ... look at the price of the AT's and the price of the "equivalent" 6mt and then you'll see the rarity of the 6speed shows in the resale value ... same as ours and you can see it on autotrader.ca RIGHT NOW !!!

The second one down on the right side is a nav'd auto and some M6's here have 27000 MORE kilometers on them WITHOUT NAV and they are still selling for more than the AT.

KBB gives a rough idea... life experience is the only facts I believe in.

http://search.trader.ca/Results.asp?...ategory=&CAT=1

thank for listeninginging

 

oh my god... you just never get it... all you just said was samething what i said b4 "6MT is so rare that you can't find one and need to pay primium to it"... also primium will only there if you sell privately... if you just trade in or sell to like carmax there will be absolutely no primium to it... the future buyer will get ripped off from them... it's a simple game, if you have 1 supra in stock and 2people want it, it's very obvious that the price will go up that's called "primium" and that decides the price of that one specific supra not rest of supras in this country... but kbb sets the basic price of ALL SUPRAS...therefore it's basic and prices can be off... other people could get less or need to pay more than that supra... look at Lan EVO8, when evo just came out, each dealer marked up their price somewhere b/w 1-5k... is that mean MSRP went up? no... soemone could get for msrp or below... it's like you get a stuff for 10$ and sell for 12$ and others might sell for 10 or even at 9$ it's totally up to them... kbb and other resale value sources don't include "PRIMIUM" that you need to pay in order to get one... and give basic idea what you should pay for it... it deson't mean you must get for what kbb said... mark up or less is up to the owner... so kbb and other sources will come out with same value no matter which tranny.. you i mean the buyer decides whether pay it more or less... and your link is not the finding resale value, it's a site that sell/buy site... "The second one down on the right side is a nav'd auto and some M6's here have 27000 MORE kilometers on them WITHOUT NAV and they are still selling for more than the AT." i could just put my AT g for $1 or 100k if i want.. you get my point?? it's free to quote whatever price they want to and REAL QUESTION IS, WILL THAT 6MT WILL BE SOLD B4 AT? if they do congrats to that owner... there will be overpiced used cars while there will be also underpriced cars... decision is up to an individual owner of a car...and buyer decides should they pay that much for 6MT or simply wait for the next one that quoted it less... and you still didn't get my original purpose of thread... I'LL SAY IT AGAIN... IT WASN'T TOWARD MT VS. AT RESALE VALUE... IT WAS BASE TRIM VS. TOP END TRIM MODEL...
and since you never mentioned anything other than AT vs MT thing, i assume that u understood the real resale value works... i guess it was worth of typing all those...

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by uheenada on 11/06/03 08:09 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

What?