I test-drove an RX-8 yesterday but it wasn't that great of a test-drive. Got on the freeway, turned around, got back on the freeway. Boring. Any car can cruise, I wanted some curves!

Anyways, I didn't like it. The seat was comfy but I felt really close to the A-pillar. Revving it high is weird too, and when I tried to accelerate from 2500 rpm it was really slow. At high RPM it is loud. I'm not a fan of the piano-gloss center console either. It makes it look cheap. When I got out of the car, the plastic molding under the side of the seat dug into my thigh. I would not not want to feel that every time I got in/out. The throttle was very responsive though, and the steering was tight and crisp. Still, the RX is a Butter Face, nice motor and back seats but I can't get past the looks of it. The G35 is the slightly overweight sexy hot chick.

G all the way!

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Gonna order a 2005 DG 6MT Coupe soon!

 

Speaking solely for myself, if I were to do it all over again I think I would get the base RX-8 with the nav system for about $27k. The only way I can get the G35 configured the way I want drives the price up to $38k. That's as big as the difference between that same G35 and a M3, whereas at the lower price point the RX-8 is competing with previous generation Mustangs. Now that I've finally owned a modern luxury car like the G, I've discovered that I don't actually use or like any of the extra luxury features (except the Nav). I also became frustrated with my inability to find enough room to open up the G around where I live. Driving a powerful car in traffic is just maddening. The RX-8, with its smooth shifter and greater emphasis on handling than power, would have fit me better, knowing what I know now. Except that the G is much, much prettier.

On the other hand, there's nothing stopping me from getting a RX-8 now, and yet I have no intention to do so. I think I'm done with cars that compromise between performance, luxury and utility. This next sports car I buy will be a dedicated sports car, meant for track use, while I drive something else to get me from point A to point B.

Anyway, just my opinion.

 

JDMan, thanks for your experiences. Brings up some good points.

What track car are you thinking about? Lotus Elise? Evo VIII? WRX STi? S2000?

I don't like the RX-8's looks enough to buy one, but I am considering a used M3 vs the G.

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Gonna order a 2005 DG 6MT Coupe soon!

 

JDMan, it sounds like you need a G sedan. That'll take care of the room issue while still giving you all the enjoyment of the mighty VQ.

Mike
04 G35x Sedan 5AT DG/G

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

If I was 18 and could vote on this election, the only reason I would vote for Kerry is so I can oust Bush. Other than that, it's like voting for bad or worse.

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I agree 100%. I don't like Bush or Kerry. Its almost to the point where I'm thinking of not even voting. Its sad really.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

I mean what other sports car can displace 4.6L and only put out 260hp? The hp / L output of our VQ's is pretty ugly itself...

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Well, I think you're putting too much focus on hp / L. That's only bragging rights for thermal efficiency and not much else. Having the highest hp/L does not always translate into the fastest car, the most efficient car, or the best power delivery.

Two good examples:

The Mazda rotary engine has huge hp per liter, yet it has like zero torque, and you need to rev it to insane RPM's to get the power out of it. It also guzzles fuel like no tomorrow.

The Honda S2000 motor also has really impressive hp per liter numbers. But its similar to the Mazda rotary: no torque, and you need to rev it like crazy to get its max power. Below 6k RPM's, its got nothing.

I raced an S2000 with an intake from a roll in my stock G35. Beat him by 1.5 car lengths pretty easily. Based on the PEAK power to weight ratios, that shouldn't have happened. But thanks to the G35's substantially greater torque, and much broader power band, it won the race. Nobody was praising the S2000's much higher power per Liter when it just got beat by a G35 with a much less efficient engine.

I'm more impressed with an engine's usable power band (i.e. its power across the RPM range) and its torque curve. Peaky engines with really steep curves that make max power in narrow RPM ranges with low torque but really high hp per liter numbers, don't impress me much.

For years I stayed away from imports because most of them had no torque, and made little power until near redline. I found it really frustrating driving such cars where you nail the gas, and wait and wait and wait until the revs build before the car starts pulling hard. When I hit the gas I want to move fast NOW, not 3 seconds, or even 1 second from now. Fortunately, Nissan recognized this, and increased the displacement of the VQ to 3.5L, and combined with the variable valve timing, it produces some nice low end torque now and really broad and flat torque curve and smooth power deliver. Took 'em a while, but now they finally got it [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img] And I responded by buying one - someone who never owned an import before.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black, headers, intake, exhaust, 380 rwhp

 

I am a huge fan of the Elise, but for me putting one on the track would be the equivalent of betting my life savings on a hand of blackjack, with the dealer already showing 21 and the best I can hope for being a push. Crashing a $42k+ car into a barrier on a track would pretty much ruin me financially, since insurance wouldn't cover it. I wouldn't chance it unless I found out I had an inoperable brain tumor.

I think the first reasonable option would be a '00 S2000, which can be had for around $19k. That's the route I'd go if I wanted to drive a highly competent track car that I could financially survive a crash in, yet looks like a current model car on the street. Plus it's convertible and RWD. Easy choice. The other option is SM racing, which I am very seriously considering. For the cost of the used S2000, I could buy two of those and prep one for SM while turbocharging the other for time trials. The downside is it's not sexy, but the upside is it's by far the most affordable route to legitimate racing. I can deal with the lack of power. I'm done with drag racing.

But again, that's just me. My priorities have completely changed since when I first joined this forum 18 months ago. I still think the G is the best luxury GT car available for the money. I think the base RX-8 is the best non-luxury GT car for the money. I just don't want a GT car anymore.

 

Solid reponse man. I really want to take a Z06 for a spin, but no one I know has one. I'd have to play several ladders of the friends friends dad to get into a Z06 and that's just too much.

I wasn't really talking about the Mazda nor the S2000. I was talking about the M3's 3.2L, 333bhp. Or the 360 Modena's 3.6L V8, 400bhp. There's just something about high output, high revving NA engines. =) I would never buy an RX-8 cuz you have to rev so high to move! You're right.

Black / Black 2004 GcoupeMT. Premium. Splash Guardz.

 

OK, firstly i'm an import guy,

but dragon, what are you talking about when it comes to power output of the v8s vs. import's smaller engines?

if the ford engineers tuned the v8s as highly as, say, nissan did to the vq, then there'd be virtually no gains when you add aftermarket parts. *please note, i am exempting forced induction in this--just bolt ons and other NA tuning methods*

you would also have cars that put down something like 400 hp, and the insurance rates would be financially crippling.

so yeah, they're detuned. but that's a conscious effort on the part of the manufacturer to keep the insurance rates down and the modability high. try putting intake, header, exhaust, cams on a vq, and see what the gains are compared to say... an LS1 or a mustang gt. it'd be hilarious how the american engineering wakes up.

it's like saying the gtr engine is a piece of crap because it's an inline 6, 2.6 turbo but only 280 hp? c'mon now.

so no offense, but saying that imports are better because they have more HP for less displacement is kind of ignorant.

 

So you'd rather put out big money on a car you already paid for? Excellent buddy! Let's all go buy Mustangs!!

Black / Black 2004 GcoupeMT. Premium. Splash Guardz.

 

To be fair to domestics, people often compare a domestic w/ low HP/L vs. an import w/ high HP/L when arguing their case. For example, they'll point out the S2000 & mention how the Mustang GT has a 4.6L w/ only 260 hp - not a fair comparison.

The Mustang Mach 1, which also uses the 4.6L, puts out another 50 hp (310) & isn't super/turbocharged. Same engine but different tuning from Ford. You mentioned how the VQ responds to bolt-ons, bolt-ons for the Stang result in much bigger gains than w/ the VQ.

There are imports like the RL, supposedly Acura's flagship sedan (most expensive) that has a 3.5L putting out just 225 hp. Why don't more people mention that car when talking about output/L?

 

i don't think you're quite grasping what i'm getting at.

when it comes to tuning, these things are BASIC. there're PLENTY of people on this site with g35s and have lots of bolt ons, but with minor gains. the potential is far greater in a mustang's. to say that the vq35 is better is accurate if you're looking stock for stock. but if you tune both engines equally the mustang will obviously have greater gains.

so no, i don't consider the vq better because it has more hp in a smaller package. it has so little potential without going FI, whereas an ls1 will put down crazy numbers without going FI. and if they both DID go FI, it would STILL destroy the vq.

not only does the mustang cost less, but mod for mod will destroy a g35.

 

Yea! That's why we should sell out ugly G's and get the outrageously slick styled Mustangs! I mean it's common knowledge the domestic car quality is top of the industry! Who needs German or Japanese when you have AMERICA. Yea! God bless America!

Black / Black 2004 GcoupeMT. Premium. Splash Guardz.

 

no need to be sarcastic.

you didn't make comments on the styling, nor did you make comments on the reliability. i'm talking about power output, which you thought was better in the vq. can you refute that what i've said makes sense? don't bring up things that were not part of the original statement now.

and besides, i'd buy american over german any day. if you think bmws or mercedes or vws are really reliable cars, i'd be further astonished at the marketing machine of these brands in america.

 

The power output IS better in the VQ. I don't want to drop money on more mods because a company doesn't want my insurance rates up. I want the company to fine tune the engine to some degree. I'm not the tuner, the COMPANY is. I've seen 12 sec Integra videos, but why would I want that? I'd rather have a tuned engine from the factory specs.

Black / Black 2004 GcoupeMT. Premium. Splash Guardz.

 

The Mustang has a great engine. No doubt about that. It just doesn't have the balance, well-roundedness, or elegance of some of the better imports. For example, in Car and Driver's test of the S2000, Mustang Mach 1, and 350Z (when the 350Z first came out); although the Mustang could beat them all in a straight line, it came in BEHIND both those cars on the track. Quote from C&D "Where the road bends, the Mustang shows its traditional weaknesses. The steering is slow, insulated, and "sworn to secrecy," quotes the logbook. The body perches high on its compliant springs, and its bobbing motion through corners would feel right only to an America's Cup crew. Tramp the potent brakes, and the Mach 1 leans forward to sniff the pavement. Where other cars' tires were only frayed after repeated laps, the Mustang's Goodyears were thoroughly cupped".

You might not mind that, but to me, a "sports car" has to be well balanced in (1) acceleration, (2) braking, and (3) handling. This is something that the G has in spades. And add luxury to that list to make it a world-class GT car. These cars are in different classes.