Coolant bubbling and gurgling
#1
07-30-2014, 06:44 PM
Coolant bubbling and gurgling
Hello! .. for a 2003 infiniti G35
I've had one hell of a week... it all began when I was driving home from work and the coolant in the overflow reservoir would boil and spill out. Driving or idling would make the temp guage skyrocket to ~90-95% of max temperature. I've brought it to a radiator mechanic after I had changed the thermostat (which ended with no luck to fix the problem).
The mechanic swapped out the water pump which fixed the temperature skyrocketing to maximum issue. It hovers lower than 50% now (I'd say around 45-50% area which is fantastic. One issue fixed). They've mentioned that they had water mixed with something else.. I don't remember as coolant. It's bubbling and gurgling like crazy. Almost spewing out the overflow. I can see steam zipping out of that little nozzle at the top of the reservoir.
My question is.....Is this normal?
The coolant has been filled about 1 inch past the MAX line and they said it's fine. They also said I can come back in to refill and flush my rad for antifreeze before winter. ...I paid a whopping $600. 4 hours of labour, serpentine and AC belts since the last one was all crusted and cracked from coolant overflow and waterpump....
Any help would be appreciated! I'm taking the car back to the mechanic tomorrow. To see what they have to say or do additionally...
I've had one hell of a week... it all began when I was driving home from work and the coolant in the overflow reservoir would boil and spill out. Driving or idling would make the temp guage skyrocket to ~90-95% of max temperature. I've brought it to a radiator mechanic after I had changed the thermostat (which ended with no luck to fix the problem).
The mechanic swapped out the water pump which fixed the temperature skyrocketing to maximum issue. It hovers lower than 50% now (I'd say around 45-50% area which is fantastic. One issue fixed). They've mentioned that they had water mixed with something else.. I don't remember as coolant. It's bubbling and gurgling like crazy. Almost spewing out the overflow. I can see steam zipping out of that little nozzle at the top of the reservoir.
My question is.....Is this normal?
The coolant has been filled about 1 inch past the MAX line and they said it's fine. They also said I can come back in to refill and flush my rad for antifreeze before winter. ...I paid a whopping $600. 4 hours of labour, serpentine and AC belts since the last one was all crusted and cracked from coolant overflow and waterpump....
Any help would be appreciated! I'm taking the car back to the mechanic tomorrow. To see what they have to say or do additionally...
#2
07-30-2014, 07:33 PM
No, its not normal for the overflow to be bubbling / gurgling. Sounds like the water pump was the culprit, but you now need to bleed the remaining air out of your coolant system. You can do that yourself, but since you paid a mechanic to do the work, you should make him properly bleed the rest of the air out.
The following users liked this post:
Wrathernaut (07-30-2014)
#3
07-30-2014, 08:36 PM
No, its not normal for the overflow to be bubbling / gurgling. Sounds like the water pump was the culprit, but you now need to bleed the remaining air out of your coolant system. You can do that yourself, but since you paid a mechanic to do the work, you should make him properly bleed the rest of the air out.
#6
07-30-2014, 09:35 PM
It is a mechanical fan. As far as I'm aware, the one right in front in between the motor belts and the radiator is working. I'm not sure if a second fan. if there even is a second fan... They burped the system they told me....
#7
07-30-2014, 10:24 PM
I've searched around, but to no avail. Are there DIY head gasket replacements on the forums? I'm not too familiar with the layout inside the engine, but would this be the headgasket here?
https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...placement.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...placement.html
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#8
07-30-2014, 10:42 PM
Headgasket again..
Had the problem I fixed the engine myself... costed me 1200 buying all the seals and everything new, thats me doing the labor.. not worth it. Newer engine goes for 1300+
You have all the signs of a blown Headgasket. Want to verify go on amazon and buy a exhaust gas test. Pour it into the reservoir tank and viola!
Also, have you tested your fan clutch? Just because it spins doesn't mean its working.
If anything call me I'll give you a run down of tests you can do to verify.
Had the problem I fixed the engine myself... costed me 1200 buying all the seals and everything new, thats me doing the labor.. not worth it. Newer engine goes for 1300+
You have all the signs of a blown Headgasket. Want to verify go on amazon and buy a exhaust gas test. Pour it into the reservoir tank and viola!
Also, have you tested your fan clutch? Just because it spins doesn't mean its working.
If anything call me I'll give you a run down of tests you can do to verify.
The following users liked this post:
Wrathernaut (07-31-2014)
#9
07-30-2014, 11:27 PM
#10
07-31-2014, 12:59 AM
A free way to check your head gasket is to look for oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. That method is not always going to show if its a small leak. If its blown it will show lol for sure. Check the fans too. Mine was burning oil and overheating, come to find out the guy I bought it from didn't tell me about the coolant fan not working and the condensor fan having to work harder to cool the car. So I put fresh synthetic oil in it topped off the radiator a few times use the ac rarely and avoid stand still traffic. Now I just have to make my up on a fan. I also noticed with mine the thermostat wasn't wanting to open and the coolant was really dark so I used water and 50/50 mix eventually it started running lighter and I could see stop leak in the coolant so that could be gunking your system up..
#11
07-31-2014, 01:16 AM
#12
07-31-2014, 02:29 AM
Also here is various ways of headgasket leaks:
exhaust into water jacket - symptom = gas comes out into the reserve tank since fluid is in the way it'll eventually push out the fluid out of the reserve tank... Also this gas is SUPER HOT. Remember a combustion chamber is in the thousands of degree's. So some of this fluid is also evaporated in the process.
exhaust into the intake - symptom = rough idle, coolant will come out of intake. and/or oil. This can also be misled by "blow-by" and not to be confused as a head gasket failure.
Exhaust into oil jacket with water blend. - symptom = rough engine operation, coolant will "disappear" and be found inside the crank casing. Will look like your favorite Starbucks Mocha, Dont drink !
Exhaust into water jacket with intrusion of oil - symptom = may appear fine during idle, loss of engine oil and mixture of fluids inside cooling system.
Coolant into Exhaust - symptom = burning coolant scent, depending how severe you may crack valves, catalytic converters, exhaust pipe welds, and surely at this point you will see white smoke being purged out of the exhaust tail pipe.
Oil into exhaust - symptom = rough idle, will look like you just purchased a mosquito repellent machine with huge amounts of blueish smoke coming from end exhaust pipe.
The variables for head gaskets are quite large and they are hard to tell unless you do the proper tests. Which can be costly given the fact that they must be handled by a professional.
Yes the VQ is known for terrible air pockets which give the sense of a head gasket mishap. RARELY do the water pumps go out. thermostats should be changed every 30k miles or 3 years whichever comes first. I personally believe it should be done like so to be preventative. Think about this, What's cheaper a engine or a thermostat? Simple routine maintenance can take your car a long way. I am currently at 310,072 Miles. It did NOT get here because of what the dealership says you should do. i just change things based on my driving habits and the stresses that I know are being placed on the circumstances.
A lot of people are against the whole e-fan swap. Because it may not provide a huge and sometimes even a marginal performance gain. Truth is i changed my car over to e-fan for reliability. As odd and ironic as it sounds that a electrical fan is more reliable than a mechanical fan. Truth is I can tell my fans are ON and working. Can you tell your e-fan is working at it's intended manufactured CFM rating?
I went through 3 radiators, 4 transmissions and the car always from day one (19k miles) always burnt coolant just with time it progressed and eventually caused all the issues You are currently going through. Heck I even swapped over to a 4 CORE full race aluminum radiator just because i wanted reliability... I have YET to fully appreciate the radiators performance intention and probably never will until that vehicle goes on boost and even then it may never see it's full potential.
try this, it'll save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
exhaust into water jacket - symptom = gas comes out into the reserve tank since fluid is in the way it'll eventually push out the fluid out of the reserve tank... Also this gas is SUPER HOT. Remember a combustion chamber is in the thousands of degree's. So some of this fluid is also evaporated in the process.
exhaust into the intake - symptom = rough idle, coolant will come out of intake. and/or oil. This can also be misled by "blow-by" and not to be confused as a head gasket failure.
Exhaust into oil jacket with water blend. - symptom = rough engine operation, coolant will "disappear" and be found inside the crank casing. Will look like your favorite Starbucks Mocha, Dont drink !
Exhaust into water jacket with intrusion of oil - symptom = may appear fine during idle, loss of engine oil and mixture of fluids inside cooling system.
Coolant into Exhaust - symptom = burning coolant scent, depending how severe you may crack valves, catalytic converters, exhaust pipe welds, and surely at this point you will see white smoke being purged out of the exhaust tail pipe.
Oil into exhaust - symptom = rough idle, will look like you just purchased a mosquito repellent machine with huge amounts of blueish smoke coming from end exhaust pipe.
The variables for head gaskets are quite large and they are hard to tell unless you do the proper tests. Which can be costly given the fact that they must be handled by a professional.
Yes the VQ is known for terrible air pockets which give the sense of a head gasket mishap. RARELY do the water pumps go out. thermostats should be changed every 30k miles or 3 years whichever comes first. I personally believe it should be done like so to be preventative. Think about this, What's cheaper a engine or a thermostat? Simple routine maintenance can take your car a long way. I am currently at 310,072 Miles. It did NOT get here because of what the dealership says you should do. i just change things based on my driving habits and the stresses that I know are being placed on the circumstances.
A lot of people are against the whole e-fan swap. Because it may not provide a huge and sometimes even a marginal performance gain. Truth is i changed my car over to e-fan for reliability. As odd and ironic as it sounds that a electrical fan is more reliable than a mechanical fan. Truth is I can tell my fans are ON and working. Can you tell your e-fan is working at it's intended manufactured CFM rating?
I went through 3 radiators, 4 transmissions and the car always from day one (19k miles) always burnt coolant just with time it progressed and eventually caused all the issues You are currently going through. Heck I even swapped over to a 4 CORE full race aluminum radiator just because i wanted reliability... I have YET to fully appreciate the radiators performance intention and probably never will until that vehicle goes on boost and even then it may never see it's full potential.
try this, it'll save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
The following 2 users liked this post by Eric@TCGMiami:
rsingerG35 (08-01-2014),
tiguy99 (12-18-2020)
#13
07-31-2014, 02:39 AM
#14
07-31-2014, 04:12 AM
PWR Radiators
they are discontinued at the moment, they will build to order it though. Great product and their customer service is inexplicably outstanding. i punctured one by mistake and I let them know and they gave me 50% off from the purchase of a new one so long as i send the damaged unit back to them.
Problem with the PWR is simply too big. i had to ALMOST modify the frame where the stay's are because it was literally millimeters away from the frame. to install you have to modify the radiator support as well slightly about 1/2 an inch. also you have to install it sideways (lol) and wiggle it into position ever so carefully.
Why so big? because i was honestly tired of my overheating experiences and it was because of the underlying problem I was unaware of (mech fan not working right). the bigger radiator helped because it would take MUCH longer for the temperatures to get up to danger levels. But each side has a pro and a con. Because there is more fluid in the radiator it causes the fans to work double if not triple harder as it has to cool down more fluid. So as it takes longer to heat up it takes just as long to cool down. I've come to learn that a bigger radiator doesn't mean it'll be cooler just means it'll take longer to heat up. So you can really take the vehicle to a higher degree of performance in a race application because you can abuse for longer period of times. Provided that you have the proper setup (brakes, tires, etc...) you can come into turns faster, get on the power sooner and the buffer for the overheating will be a large enough cooling system. Then by the time you begin to spike because either the fans are overwhelmed by the heat spikes you should be hitting a straight away to assist in the rapid cooling of that fluid inside the radiator.
Again bigger radiators have a drawback space being one of factors (i lost a lot of space inside the engine bay. With the mech fan the radiator was nearly 1/8th of an inch away from touching the blades. Couldn't run a fan shroud and the stock airbox which is proven to be one of the best induction system around would no longer fit unless i cut the frame and re-routed the box further to the right.
Next drawback is OEM intention. see the fan in the front of the 2003/4ish G35 Sedans that come with the mechanical fan are designed for the A/C. The fan is called "Auxillary fan" it's design is to primarily aide in A/C purposes only. It has a 2 stage speed all controlled by the ECU in a CAN/BUS Digital world. AUXILIARY FAN KICKS ON AT 203 WITH AC OFF @ 50% power
WITH AC OFF 210 @ 100% power.
With A/C on it kicks on when the trinary switch reaches a given pressure stage. If I recall correctly at 40 MPH the ECU turns off the fan as at this speed the CFM created by the vehicles speed is far surpassed by the CFM the Auxillary fan can generate.
But the key important factor here is that the mechanical fan is also providing CFM through the radiator / ac condenser. So the A/C feels spectacular as it should. By putting a bigger Radiator and removing the mech fan for a Efan you create HAVOC for the A/C system. Now you'll notice the aux fan turns on sooner stays on longer, and at times the a/c compressor will simply shut down because excessive pressure is built so you'll feel the A/C go from cool to warmish then back to cool... Just complete havoc. Now, what I did to combat this because UNFORTUNATELY i have yet to figure out how to steal the CAN/BUS signal and use it in an analog method for the fan controller to work in unison with the aux fan.
So what I did was install a 12 inch fan on the front LEFT side with a separate thermostat/controller from the radiator fans. I programmed that fan to click on precisely 7 seconds after the AUX fan has clicked on. The time given provides for efficient cooling and avoids pointless false starts as the radiant heat from the radiator doesn't throw off that design.
again this is all independent from the radiator fans/controller.
I use to have the SPAL PWM controller attached to 2 AP71 powered Slim Line fans. (14inchers)
problem is SPAL later down the road found out that the PWM cannot be used with the AP71 and above motors as their amperage load is just too much for the controller and would burn out the unit. for the Variable stage which is considered the low temp ON setting. But their HIGH temp stage works completely like a (226204) from advanced but far more consistent and accurate. So I use that cable along with some custom made marine 200AMP solenoids to provide the power needed safely to the fans. Surely i dislike the electrical spikes it creates when the fans turn on. It'll drop the RPM from 700rpm to 615 instantly car will judder a bit as well. But I have peace of mind knowing the fans are working. I set the temp to click on at 201 just before the aux fan kicks on. They shut off at 188 degree's with STOCK radiator it literally cuts off in 10 seconds. With the PWR it can take up to 45 seconds.
they are discontinued at the moment, they will build to order it though. Great product and their customer service is inexplicably outstanding. i punctured one by mistake and I let them know and they gave me 50% off from the purchase of a new one so long as i send the damaged unit back to them.
Problem with the PWR is simply too big. i had to ALMOST modify the frame where the stay's are because it was literally millimeters away from the frame. to install you have to modify the radiator support as well slightly about 1/2 an inch. also you have to install it sideways (lol) and wiggle it into position ever so carefully.
Why so big? because i was honestly tired of my overheating experiences and it was because of the underlying problem I was unaware of (mech fan not working right). the bigger radiator helped because it would take MUCH longer for the temperatures to get up to danger levels. But each side has a pro and a con. Because there is more fluid in the radiator it causes the fans to work double if not triple harder as it has to cool down more fluid. So as it takes longer to heat up it takes just as long to cool down. I've come to learn that a bigger radiator doesn't mean it'll be cooler just means it'll take longer to heat up. So you can really take the vehicle to a higher degree of performance in a race application because you can abuse for longer period of times. Provided that you have the proper setup (brakes, tires, etc...) you can come into turns faster, get on the power sooner and the buffer for the overheating will be a large enough cooling system. Then by the time you begin to spike because either the fans are overwhelmed by the heat spikes you should be hitting a straight away to assist in the rapid cooling of that fluid inside the radiator.
Again bigger radiators have a drawback space being one of factors (i lost a lot of space inside the engine bay. With the mech fan the radiator was nearly 1/8th of an inch away from touching the blades. Couldn't run a fan shroud and the stock airbox which is proven to be one of the best induction system around would no longer fit unless i cut the frame and re-routed the box further to the right.
Next drawback is OEM intention. see the fan in the front of the 2003/4ish G35 Sedans that come with the mechanical fan are designed for the A/C. The fan is called "Auxillary fan" it's design is to primarily aide in A/C purposes only. It has a 2 stage speed all controlled by the ECU in a CAN/BUS Digital world. AUXILIARY FAN KICKS ON AT 203 WITH AC OFF @ 50% power
WITH AC OFF 210 @ 100% power.
With A/C on it kicks on when the trinary switch reaches a given pressure stage. If I recall correctly at 40 MPH the ECU turns off the fan as at this speed the CFM created by the vehicles speed is far surpassed by the CFM the Auxillary fan can generate.
But the key important factor here is that the mechanical fan is also providing CFM through the radiator / ac condenser. So the A/C feels spectacular as it should. By putting a bigger Radiator and removing the mech fan for a Efan you create HAVOC for the A/C system. Now you'll notice the aux fan turns on sooner stays on longer, and at times the a/c compressor will simply shut down because excessive pressure is built so you'll feel the A/C go from cool to warmish then back to cool... Just complete havoc. Now, what I did to combat this because UNFORTUNATELY i have yet to figure out how to steal the CAN/BUS signal and use it in an analog method for the fan controller to work in unison with the aux fan.
So what I did was install a 12 inch fan on the front LEFT side with a separate thermostat/controller from the radiator fans. I programmed that fan to click on precisely 7 seconds after the AUX fan has clicked on. The time given provides for efficient cooling and avoids pointless false starts as the radiant heat from the radiator doesn't throw off that design.
again this is all independent from the radiator fans/controller.
I use to have the SPAL PWM controller attached to 2 AP71 powered Slim Line fans. (14inchers)
problem is SPAL later down the road found out that the PWM cannot be used with the AP71 and above motors as their amperage load is just too much for the controller and would burn out the unit. for the Variable stage which is considered the low temp ON setting. But their HIGH temp stage works completely like a (226204) from advanced but far more consistent and accurate. So I use that cable along with some custom made marine 200AMP solenoids to provide the power needed safely to the fans. Surely i dislike the electrical spikes it creates when the fans turn on. It'll drop the RPM from 700rpm to 615 instantly car will judder a bit as well. But I have peace of mind knowing the fans are working. I set the temp to click on at 201 just before the aux fan kicks on. They shut off at 188 degree's with STOCK radiator it literally cuts off in 10 seconds. With the PWR it can take up to 45 seconds.
#15
07-31-2014, 09:19 AM
I'll try the combustion test today to see if combustion gasses are leaking into the coolant reservoir.
If it is a head gasket leakage, do you know of any threads in regards to replacing one? I've done it myself on a 04 honda civic... I'm not sure if this vehicle wil be the same at all in that regards.
Dave
If it is a head gasket leakage, do you know of any threads in regards to replacing one? I've done it myself on a 04 honda civic... I'm not sure if this vehicle wil be the same at all in that regards.
Dave
