anyone with aftermarket use 8" in the rear doors?
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whoever told you that obviously knows what they are talking about...
check out this:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-shinjohn.html
Peerless SLS 830667
Value: 9.5
Build Quality: 7
Ease of Use: 8
Output Capability: 9
So this driver looks pretty unassuming: a simple treated paper cone, stamped metal basket… It honestly didn’t look too impressive on the outside. But, it does have a shorting ring inside, and the bumped back plate gives you an indication that there’s something else good in there! Just an OK looking driver, with a somewhat larger mounting depth, it didn’t strike me as an obvious choice for a car mid/bass driver.
However, from a sound quality perspective, this driver hands down impressed me the most. Starting off listening in the home, I was super impressed with the cleanliness of sound in the sealed enclosure. It really did produce bass the way I always thought it should be produced: tight (well controlled), clean, tonally correct, and best of all, LOUD! In home I could not fault it on anything, and it was heads and shoulders above everything else below 500Hz. Integration with my monitor was near perfect. So good was the Peerless that I decided upon hearing it that my planned tower project (which was to use the Dayton RS225S-8) would be rethought. (I hope this doesn’t prevent me from selling my Daytons though )
Moving on to in-car listening, the results there were just as impressive, if not more so. Even with the car’s transfer function, I thought the Peerless sounded quite good “out of the box”, and a huge amount of tuning wasn’t needed to make them sound balanced. However, more impressive was the Peerless’ ability to play VERY LOW with a very high level of output! They easily played down to 20Hz, turning Peter’s door pods into little rattle machines. Don’t even think about using these in a door unless you’ve done an exceptional job deadening, and have rigidly attached the drivers to the door metal, not the door panels.
These drivers are what convinced me to finally gut my daily driver and take a new approach. (or at least this is today’s plan ) I felt that the output was so good with these that I could see myself losing my (2) 12” subwoofers in the trunk in favor of a pair of these installed in the doors (as part of a 3-way front stage). Ambitious, yes, but I think it’d be killer from an SQ perspective. I could also gain trunk space back, which would be goodness…..
Now if I had to nitpick, the one slightly negative thing I noticed during the in-car session was that these drivers did sound a tiny less snappy in the mid (kick) bass region than the Lotus 8s, and even the Seas L22s. Now this was pretty subtle, and I don’t think I would have noticed if I didn’t listen side by side with these other drivers. On the other hand, neither of the Seas played as low or with as much output/authority. One thing I didn’t get to do was to see if I could tune the Peerless a little better, to even them out a little bit. I bet an experienced tuner could get them about perfect sounding, because they are probably just slightly bottom heavy right out of the box, in a car door. One last thing: this driver isn’t a good choice if you need something to play up to 1 KHz. Won’t do it.
get those. they look cheap but apparently everyone raves about them.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1386 <--only 52bucks!
oh and this is how you deaden your doors:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...reatments.html
i recommend deflex pads instead of the foam. also i'd add a layer of ensolite over everything after the rammatt.
check out this:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-shinjohn.html
Peerless SLS 830667
Value: 9.5
Build Quality: 7
Ease of Use: 8
Output Capability: 9
So this driver looks pretty unassuming: a simple treated paper cone, stamped metal basket… It honestly didn’t look too impressive on the outside. But, it does have a shorting ring inside, and the bumped back plate gives you an indication that there’s something else good in there! Just an OK looking driver, with a somewhat larger mounting depth, it didn’t strike me as an obvious choice for a car mid/bass driver.
However, from a sound quality perspective, this driver hands down impressed me the most. Starting off listening in the home, I was super impressed with the cleanliness of sound in the sealed enclosure. It really did produce bass the way I always thought it should be produced: tight (well controlled), clean, tonally correct, and best of all, LOUD! In home I could not fault it on anything, and it was heads and shoulders above everything else below 500Hz. Integration with my monitor was near perfect. So good was the Peerless that I decided upon hearing it that my planned tower project (which was to use the Dayton RS225S-8) would be rethought. (I hope this doesn’t prevent me from selling my Daytons though )
Moving on to in-car listening, the results there were just as impressive, if not more so. Even with the car’s transfer function, I thought the Peerless sounded quite good “out of the box”, and a huge amount of tuning wasn’t needed to make them sound balanced. However, more impressive was the Peerless’ ability to play VERY LOW with a very high level of output! They easily played down to 20Hz, turning Peter’s door pods into little rattle machines. Don’t even think about using these in a door unless you’ve done an exceptional job deadening, and have rigidly attached the drivers to the door metal, not the door panels.
These drivers are what convinced me to finally gut my daily driver and take a new approach. (or at least this is today’s plan ) I felt that the output was so good with these that I could see myself losing my (2) 12” subwoofers in the trunk in favor of a pair of these installed in the doors (as part of a 3-way front stage). Ambitious, yes, but I think it’d be killer from an SQ perspective. I could also gain trunk space back, which would be goodness…..
Now if I had to nitpick, the one slightly negative thing I noticed during the in-car session was that these drivers did sound a tiny less snappy in the mid (kick) bass region than the Lotus 8s, and even the Seas L22s. Now this was pretty subtle, and I don’t think I would have noticed if I didn’t listen side by side with these other drivers. On the other hand, neither of the Seas played as low or with as much output/authority. One thing I didn’t get to do was to see if I could tune the Peerless a little better, to even them out a little bit. I bet an experienced tuner could get them about perfect sounding, because they are probably just slightly bottom heavy right out of the box, in a car door. One last thing: this driver isn’t a good choice if you need something to play up to 1 KHz. Won’t do it.
get those. they look cheap but apparently everyone raves about them.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1386 <--only 52bucks!
oh and this is how you deaden your doors:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...reatments.html
i recommend deflex pads instead of the foam. also i'd add a layer of ensolite over everything after the rammatt.
Last edited by Torgus; Mar 13, 2009 at 09:30 PM.
actually, you are wrong. but i'm not going to get into that here.
oh! and no neons for me! thx for the suggestion tho i do however have one for you! ditch the infinity comps. anything sold at bestbuy for car audio generally sucks. while it is better then stock don't get me wrong, for the money you can get much better speakers. aside type aarrghhhs but the price still blows...either way it fails. i'd rather have car parts made in Mongolian caves myself. you know?
oh! and no neons for me! thx for the suggestion tho i do however have one for you! ditch the infinity comps. anything sold at bestbuy for car audio generally sucks. while it is better then stock don't get me wrong, for the money you can get much better speakers. aside type aarrghhhs but the price still blows...either way it fails. i'd rather have car parts made in Mongolian caves myself. you know?
SO instead of saying NO, I am jesus and I know everything.
Go in depth with your explanation as to why I am wrong....In your words?You're aware the answer to this thread was in the second post right? reading back, I don't recall him asking for your expertise. He just wanted to know of the fitment of an 8" something you told him absolutely nothing about. Nor did I.
Last edited by 4DGS; Mar 13, 2009 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention
Joined: May 2008
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From: Massachusetts
eh. ill go to best buy and buy the cheapest 8in sub there and then just use it for fitment, return it after and get some sweet mids from woofersetc or something. thx anyways guys.
1) why this isn't in the audio section idk. as it should be there.
2) if you sit as far back as you say you do i don't think the sound stage will be pulled back much if at all because the midbass will be right at your ear, but 2.5ft down in the door.
3) what you really want is kickpanels for your focals, 8'' mid basses in your WELL deadened door and to run active.
thx for trying to contribute but you are 100% wrong.
mid bass is semi directional. speaker is right at his head, but 2.5 ft lower. souldn't pull his sound stage back much if at all.
foam baffles that lower his frequency range? wtf are you talking about? really, i'd love to know.
Ummm, well on one of the cars we were building for a customer we were able to get the driver in the door to give a better low end response on an Rta doing a A/B comparison so something did something and was just test to an idea that worked. So that is tf I'm talking about. Will work every time on every application, dunno. But is worth a shot since they only cost 10-15 shipped.
a bigger driver is better in this case. best midbasses i'v ever heard were 8s. EOD.
In this case where he is not trying to do alot of work to fit the speakers in his doors, it might not be better. Sure I guess if you were making the car an sq vehicle and didn't mind permantly altering the vehicle; hell rebuild the door panels and door, actually enclose the driver in a box and tune to get maximum performance.
perfects yeah....
6.5s coaxials or comps in the rear doors will screw up his sound stage and bring it back. midbasses are the only option.
2) if you sit as far back as you say you do i don't think the sound stage will be pulled back much if at all because the midbass will be right at your ear, but 2.5ft down in the door.
3) what you really want is kickpanels for your focals, 8'' mid basses in your WELL deadened door and to run active.
thx for trying to contribute but you are 100% wrong.
mid bass is semi directional. speaker is right at his head, but 2.5 ft lower. souldn't pull his sound stage back much if at all.
foam baffles that lower his frequency range? wtf are you talking about? really, i'd love to know.
Ummm, well on one of the cars we were building for a customer we were able to get the driver in the door to give a better low end response on an Rta doing a A/B comparison so something did something and was just test to an idea that worked. So that is tf I'm talking about. Will work every time on every application, dunno. But is worth a shot since they only cost 10-15 shipped.
a bigger driver is better in this case. best midbasses i'v ever heard were 8s. EOD.
In this case where he is not trying to do alot of work to fit the speakers in his doors, it might not be better. Sure I guess if you were making the car an sq vehicle and didn't mind permantly altering the vehicle; hell rebuild the door panels and door, actually enclose the driver in a box and tune to get maximum performance.
perfects yeah....
6.5s coaxials or comps in the rear doors will screw up his sound stage and bring it back. midbasses are the only option.
Please step down from the high horse you are on and wade around with the village idiot scum as you deem us and maybe you might find that other people have found thing that work in some application and that some equipment is not that bad when installed by someone who cares.
Oh and in the article that you quoted from I find it interesting that the author said it would be great from a SQ perspective to install those speakers in the front as part of a three way setup and maybe lose the 2 12's so he had space again.
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As for the quote about Best Buy: No they do not sell the best equipment out there and most of it is designed for people who do not want to spend a ton of money. Moving from work in high end custom audio shops to a large retailer, there is major switch from level of clients and their needs. I do though make people happy with what I sell and install were every where I work since I understand their expectations and meet them.
Please step down from the high horse you are on and wade around with the village idiot scum as you deem us and maybe you might find that other people have found thing that work in some application and that some equipment is not that bad when installed by someone who cares.
Oh and in the article that you quoted from I find it interesting that the author said it would be great from a SQ perspective to install those speakers in the front as part of a three way setup and maybe lose the 2 12's so he had space again.
Please step down from the high horse you are on and wade around with the village idiot scum as you deem us and maybe you might find that other people have found thing that work in some application and that some equipment is not that bad when installed by someone who cares.
Oh and in the article that you quoted from I find it interesting that the author said it would be great from a SQ perspective to install those speakers in the front as part of a three way setup and maybe lose the 2 12's so he had space again.
your post has added nothing to this discussion. thank you for contributing.
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again your post has added nothing to this discussion. thank you for contributing.
which is why you work at best buy. need i say more. lol. oh and you never worked at a high end ca shop. period. no ones goes from high end ca to bestbuy, lol. try another one pal.
which is why you work at best buy. need i say more. lol. oh and you never worked at a high end ca shop. period. no ones goes from high end ca to bestbuy, lol. try another one pal.
Last edited by Torgus; Mar 14, 2009 at 08:31 PM.
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all you need:
213.5mm flange
178mm cut out hole size
100mm depth
Last edited by Torgus; Mar 15, 2009 at 08:49 AM.
Due to the fact I now have good health insurance including health, EYE AND DENTAL I do. I also have a 401K. More time off. Not having to fight to get jobs since it is commision based. A better chance to of being employed in the next few years since most of the shops are hurting right now. I don't have to be an installer forever, especially since I have a bad back. More opportunity to teach my knowledge to others since shops custom shop generally do not have a rotating staff.
The last big job I designed, sold and installed at my old shop was about $22,000 in an H2 that only had a Iva-w205, a 15 inch overhead and an Alpine screen in the passenger visor so the passenger could watch a movie and the nav could stay up. The rest was all labor and audio equipment.
I made a good desicion that I did not want to make to ensure I have a future. I know that if I wanted to quit best buy or got fired for some freak reason, I could go right back to this shop or another since I have good relation with both and they want me to work for them because of me and my knowledge/skills.
The last big job I designed, sold and installed at my old shop was about $22,000 in an H2 that only had a Iva-w205, a 15 inch overhead and an Alpine screen in the passenger visor so the passenger could watch a movie and the nav could stay up. The rest was all labor and audio equipment.
I made a good desicion that I did not want to make to ensure I have a future. I know that if I wanted to quit best buy or got fired for some freak reason, I could go right back to this shop or another since I have good relation with both and they want me to work for them because of me and my knowledge/skills.
Oh and I threw up a quick gallery up for you to look at. I still haven't transfered all of my non digital photos that I took before I owned a digi camera.
Its in there under the title "For Torgus with love."
Its in there under the title "For Torgus with love."
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10
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Due to the fact I now have good health insurance including health, EYE AND DENTAL I do. I also have a 401K. More time off. Not having to fight to get jobs since it is commision based(that makes no sense?). A better chance to of being employed (speak english much?) in the next few years since most of the shops are hurting right now. I don't have to be an installer forever, especially since I have a bad back. More opportunity to teach my knowledge(that 8s are useless and caps work) to others since shops custom shop generally do not have a rotating staff(you realize not having a rotating staff is a good thing and that there is a reason bestbuy does have a rotating staff right?).
The last big job I designed, sold and installed at my old shop was about $22,000 in an H2 that only had a Iva-w205, a 15 inch overhead and an Alpine screen in the passenger visor so the passenger could watch a movie and the nav could stay up. The rest was all labor and audio equipment.(so you went from designing 22k custom installs to doing $400 best buy installs? pahlease!)
I made a good desicion that I did not want to make to ensure I have a future. I know that if I wanted to quit best buy or got fired for some freak reason, I could go right back to this shop or another since I have good relation with both and they want me to work for them because of me and my knowledge/skills.(ok what you just said makes no sense. you left because you don't think they'll be in business(your old shop) but if you leave/fired from BB you'll go back there even though they will not be in business??? why not just stay there in the 1st place. it makes 0 sense to move to a worse job(you wear a blue shirt). and if you sold and designed a 22k job you're getting a good kickback. way more $ then working at BB for $12 bucks an hour)
The last big job I designed, sold and installed at my old shop was about $22,000 in an H2 that only had a Iva-w205, a 15 inch overhead and an Alpine screen in the passenger visor so the passenger could watch a movie and the nav could stay up. The rest was all labor and audio equipment.(so you went from designing 22k custom installs to doing $400 best buy installs? pahlease!)
I made a good desicion that I did not want to make to ensure I have a future. I know that if I wanted to quit best buy or got fired for some freak reason, I could go right back to this shop or another since I have good relation with both and they want me to work for them because of me and my knowledge/skills.(ok what you just said makes no sense. you left because you don't think they'll be in business(your old shop) but if you leave/fired from BB you'll go back there even though they will not be in business??? why not just stay there in the 1st place. it makes 0 sense to move to a worse job(you wear a blue shirt). and if you sold and designed a 22k job you're getting a good kickback. way more $ then working at BB for $12 bucks an hour)
personally think you are lying about you yourself, designing a 22k custom install on an h2. maybe the shop where you swept the floor did it, not you. Also any shop doing 22k installs is making bank and not going anywhere. you went from lambos and h2s to civics and corollas. congrats man! great move!(you're working backwards in the ca business btw)
you're the one saying 8s are useless in a car and you design and install systems for a living? come on tell us what you really do for a living stop lying. next you're going to toot your mecp certification which means you know more then i do.
lemme edumacate you a little:
it has nothing to do with volume(you keep quoting speaker size) and everything to do with frequency response. By having a midbass speaker that can play low, you can improve imaging by bringing the bass to the front of the car, add the snap and punch midbass frequencies that so many systems are lacking, as well as clear up your midrange by taking the strain off of it.
What speaker you pick is really just a function of the design characteristics of the speaker itself, not just the size. keep in mind that the 8" speakers we are talking about are NOT subs, but midbass speakers. These are specifically designed to help bridge the difficult audio gap between the subs and midrange speakers. This is an are which most systems consisting of a sub and 6.5" speaker alone have difficulty getting enough output.
Don't get me wrong a good quality sub and even small midrange may be able to blend seamlessly with the right crossover points. The problem is that with many smaller drivers and even 6.5" mids they don't have enough low end output to support a 80 hz xover point without a large dip infrequency response in that area and losing a lot of midbass response.
You can compensate and still get a nice response by raising the xover point but, like geewhiz now that midbass area is actually coming from your sub, totally killing the illusion that the bass is coming from the front of your car with the image of the rest of the music.
aka your imaging is now fuct.
i hope this helps explain why 8'' midbasses are fine in a car. oh and if you just googled instead of having me spoon feed you this you would have figured it out on your own.
please explain!
any actual facts to back this up? i'm pretty sure with my above links and text i'v explained why they are perfect for car audio but perhaps you would care to enlighten me as to why i am 100% wrong...or why JL CDT etc make 8'' ca midbasses...
Last edited by Torgus; Mar 15, 2009 at 11:04 AM.
#1: Commision based means the more you do, the more you make. So when there is no work to be done, you make no money. I was giving you an example as to what I had done in the past. Jobs had dried up and we did about $3000 in labor for two weeks to be split between 3 installers that take 50% labor of the work they do. Not enough to pay my mortgage. Or car payment. Or bills. I also did sweep the floors and take out the trash and deposit the money when it was my turn since everyone helps out in small shops.
#2: Sorry about spelling.
#3: I Have only used one set of caps on idiot customer with a vw that kept blowing his 3.5 dash speakers. I can't stand caps. I have three peghooks holding about 18 of them my warehouse manager is bitching at me about selling or transfering.
#4: If everyone in the bay has the same knowledge as me, then I can't teach them #5: As to going from high end installs to the quick in and out, that is what I meant about the decision killing me. I have done a few $1500-$3000 installs so I am trying to keep the high end up as best as my situation allows.
#6: I said I wanted to ensure that I had a future, i.e. 5-10 years from now. I also said that if I wanted to go back, which I meant right now, they would take me back.
#7: Kickbacks, or commision as it is know, are nice when there are customers to sell to and cars to work on. When either is few and far between, you make no money to pay your bills.
#8: My shirt is grey, by the way.
#9: $12 an hour, HA HA HA HA, I wouldn't have left my old job for that. I make $18.83 an hour and was hired on making more than most supervisors.
I am sorry that you cannot fathom that someone wanted to ensure that they have a future in which they are not losing their house, or paying ungodly insurance bills. I talk to the guys at both of the shops on a regular basis and send jobs their way that I cannot do due to regulations. I also pick up specialty parts from them on some jobs that I cannot obtain through my business.
I don't keep saying that 8's are useless in a car, just maybe for the amount of work that the original poster was going to get into since it was not a SQ car. As was stated in the article you ripped off that the author was going to possibly put the 8's in the front of his car as part of a three way setup, which I also think is the best way to do it, not behind you. That is what you call imaging right? Especially since you said that midbass was semi-directional, why would you want the speakers behind you? You even said in your rant about edumacating (my spelling?) that having the subs play the higher frequencies to compensate not having much midbass would totally kill the illusion that the bass is coming from the front of your car with the image of the rest of the music. Isn't that the same as putting the midbass drivers behind you? Seems like it to me.
As for MECP certification, I only have it since it is becoming a requirement for seniors in the bay. I know many installers over my years that don't have it and can smoke most of the advanced and master mecp techs, they just believe in doing, not a piece of paper saying they read a book. So what if someone can memorize the words on a page, can it be put to good use?
I am not saying that I know more than you. I have understood what you have said in relation to SQ info. I have learned nothing new since it is knowledge I already have. Could I teach you something? Maybe. Would you be willing to learn? Probably not.
#2: Sorry about spelling.
#3: I Have only used one set of caps on idiot customer with a vw that kept blowing his 3.5 dash speakers. I can't stand caps. I have three peghooks holding about 18 of them my warehouse manager is bitching at me about selling or transfering.
#4: If everyone in the bay has the same knowledge as me, then I can't teach them #5: As to going from high end installs to the quick in and out, that is what I meant about the decision killing me. I have done a few $1500-$3000 installs so I am trying to keep the high end up as best as my situation allows.
#6: I said I wanted to ensure that I had a future, i.e. 5-10 years from now. I also said that if I wanted to go back, which I meant right now, they would take me back.
#7: Kickbacks, or commision as it is know, are nice when there are customers to sell to and cars to work on. When either is few and far between, you make no money to pay your bills.
#8: My shirt is grey, by the way.
#9: $12 an hour, HA HA HA HA, I wouldn't have left my old job for that. I make $18.83 an hour and was hired on making more than most supervisors.
I am sorry that you cannot fathom that someone wanted to ensure that they have a future in which they are not losing their house, or paying ungodly insurance bills. I talk to the guys at both of the shops on a regular basis and send jobs their way that I cannot do due to regulations. I also pick up specialty parts from them on some jobs that I cannot obtain through my business.
I don't keep saying that 8's are useless in a car, just maybe for the amount of work that the original poster was going to get into since it was not a SQ car. As was stated in the article you ripped off that the author was going to possibly put the 8's in the front of his car as part of a three way setup, which I also think is the best way to do it, not behind you. That is what you call imaging right? Especially since you said that midbass was semi-directional, why would you want the speakers behind you? You even said in your rant about edumacating (my spelling?) that having the subs play the higher frequencies to compensate not having much midbass would totally kill the illusion that the bass is coming from the front of your car with the image of the rest of the music. Isn't that the same as putting the midbass drivers behind you? Seems like it to me.
As for MECP certification, I only have it since it is becoming a requirement for seniors in the bay. I know many installers over my years that don't have it and can smoke most of the advanced and master mecp techs, they just believe in doing, not a piece of paper saying they read a book. So what if someone can memorize the words on a page, can it be put to good use?
I am not saying that I know more than you. I have understood what you have said in relation to SQ info. I have learned nothing new since it is knowledge I already have. Could I teach you something? Maybe. Would you be willing to learn? Probably not.
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