Question about strut bars??? VRT or Relentless Motorsports
Originally Posted by aHero4Eternity
just for clarification - i wasn't baggin' on yah. go with scott's design 
Originally Posted by redlude97
I wasn't trying to bag on you at all, just trying to show you weren't a label ***** like Ahero, and why the ARC bar wouldn't be a good choice for you. Good choice on the VRT bar though
its all good man. I dont care.
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From: Sugar Land TX/Boca Raton FL/Carefree AZ
Originally Posted by wa2good
Jeez Eric.... get it right. Hahaha.
Yes, I did develope the first working strut tower brace produced for these cars (G35's)
If there was a better made STB on the market, than I would gladely stop producing these. The material is expensive and there is not realy any profit in making these. But after seeing the other designs out there, and not to mention the meterials, it looks like I will keep on making these. I have put alot of time, effert and thought into desighing these STB's to work with most all aplications including... plenums, plenum spacers, TT kits SC's, different CAI's, etc. I HAVE NOT sold my design to GT Spec. I work closely with them and we are involved in many projects together. I am looking into having them manufacture these STB's and severall other things for me. For now, these STB's are still being made by me and are available through Relentless Autosports.
Yes, I did develope the first working strut tower brace produced for these cars (G35's)
If there was a better made STB on the market, than I would gladely stop producing these. The material is expensive and there is not realy any profit in making these. But after seeing the other designs out there, and not to mention the meterials, it looks like I will keep on making these. I have put alot of time, effert and thought into desighing these STB's to work with most all aplications including... plenums, plenum spacers, TT kits SC's, different CAI's, etc. I HAVE NOT sold my design to GT Spec. I work closely with them and we are involved in many projects together. I am looking into having them manufacture these STB's and severall other things for me. For now, these STB's are still being made by me and are available through Relentless Autosports.
Originally Posted by gary c
Why would you put out that extra cash for the ARC when it doesn't do
anything better than the Richie bar? Everything ARC makes is overpriced
and doesn't work any better than Stillen or Richie's unless you're just into
labels! I've got the MotorDyne 1/2" spacer ISO, Stillen sways and Richies
upper strut bar on my car and they all work.......the sways and strut bar
made my car "Tight" couldn't be any better....plus it fits!
anything better than the Richie bar? Everything ARC makes is overpriced
and doesn't work any better than Stillen or Richie's unless you're just into
labels! I've got the MotorDyne 1/2" spacer ISO, Stillen sways and Richies
upper strut bar on my car and they all work.......the sways and strut bar
made my car "Tight" couldn't be any better....plus it fits!
sorry Gary but ur blanket statement about arc products is ignorant and uninformed.
Yes, Arc products are expensive and are not for everyone, but they are also of high quality and every Arc product that I have recieved has fit and performed perfectly--exceeding my expectations. I don't care if it says ARC on it or not--I buy their products b/c of their consistent quality, function and form. Most of the ARC products on my G cannot be seen and neither can the Arc label be seen--but their positive effects are definetly felt by me every time I drive my G.
Sorry, but I cannot say the same thing about Stillen. Yes, I have their sways, but that's about as far I would go w/ them.
There is a reason why Nismo japan uses ARC for ALL OF THEIR cooling cores and it has nothing to do with a label. Have you seen pictures/spec's of the ARC factory in Japan?
Last edited by jonnylaw; Jul 16, 2007 at 03:06 PM.
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From: Sugar Land TX/Boca Raton FL/Carefree AZ
Originally Posted by jonnylaw
sorry Gary but ur blanket statement about arc products is ignorant and uninformed.
Yes, Arc products are expensive and are not for everyone, but they are also of high quality and every Arc product that I have recieved has fit and performed perfectly--exceeding my expectations. I don't care if it says ARC on it or not--I buy their products b/c of their consistent quality, function and form. Most of the ARC products on my G cannot be seen and neither can the Arc label be seen--but their positive effects are definetly felt by me every time I drive my G.
Sorry, but I cannot say the same thing about Stillen. Yes, I have their sways, but that's about as far I would go w/ them.
There is a reason why Nismo japan uses ARC for ALL OF THEIR cooling cores. Have you seen pictures of the ARC factory in Japan?
Well said, and I feel the exact way
. I decided to keep the ARC STB...and I also use Stillen for my Sways, Camber and Toe kit. I feel ARC is of the highest caliber. This is why they charge so much for their products. So when someone makes a statement that their product is as good or better than an Icon in this market...I want to know how they came to that conclusion
What kinf of cf mirrors are those? Me likey.
Originally Posted by XKR
Let me see if I understand your statement correctly... You are saying that your design is better than the direct tower to tower support which has been tried and proven?
First of all, a triangulated design is, and always will be much more rigid than a (flex proned) bow shaped bar. Second thing, aircraft grade 4130 chromolly is much more rigid than any titanium. I have a aerospace design background and a aerospace, and mechanical engeniering degree that has helped me greatly with this particular design delima.
Originally Posted by XKR
The material you use is better than Titanium? Is this what you are saying?
Originally Posted by XKR
I have tried yours, ARC, Richies,Stillen and a modified version of yours which has an attachment that connects and gets support from the front bumper support bar. It works like the 3 point bars used on the Acura's or Honda's.:
Originally Posted by XKR
So if you are saying that yours is better...please explain how you came to that conclusion?
. So please just do some thread searching and you will find the answers that you seek.
Last edited by wa2good; Jul 17, 2007 at 01:39 AM.
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From: Sugar Land TX/Boca Raton FL/Carefree AZ
First off, I started road racing in the late 80's, so I am not new to the full cage or structural game. The only reason I am responding to your post is because you are insinuating that your product is better than ARC's which I have found not to be true. Any intelligent person that reads your post will think the same thing. Yes, you were the first to bring this devise to THIS market but not the first to make one. I saw one in Japan on a racing G35 November of 2003.It was not something the US market would want for sure.
I am not going to sit here and thrash your STB or get into a pissing contest with you because at least you have made one, but like I said, you were insinuating that yours is better. But if I am wrong...my bad.
As an Aerospace design person, you know that every design has a weak point (ex; Space Shuttle). You have identified ARC's....did you identify yours? Well, we have!! I will use this analogy to explain it....."the finger can never be stronger than the arm, keep pushing the arm and the finger will break." The fingers are the welded parts on your STB that connect to the car.The weld joints started to crack. So my track mechanic welded something that look like what is used on a Honda or Acura. I did not take pictures, I was there to race not window shop
I know you have to be intelligent to be from the aerospace industry and comprehension is important in that field....so the only conclusion that I can come to about your post above is to try and discredit me. First off I said I HAVE TRIED YOUR STB...I said nothing about purchasing one from you. Plus, I see them for sale all the time by other G owners. So what was your point???
There were 5 G35 at the track that day. 3 Had ARC or Richie's, and I borrowed your STB from a friend. I broke it, so I paid him for it.
Like I said, I would never have responded to your post if it were not for your insinuation, because 80%-90% of the people that buy STB's will never push it to the G forces that would show the limitations.
I am not going to sit here and thrash your STB or get into a pissing contest with you because at least you have made one, but like I said, you were insinuating that yours is better. But if I am wrong...my bad.
As an Aerospace design person, you know that every design has a weak point (ex; Space Shuttle). You have identified ARC's....did you identify yours? Well, we have!! I will use this analogy to explain it....."the finger can never be stronger than the arm, keep pushing the arm and the finger will break." The fingers are the welded parts on your STB that connect to the car.The weld joints started to crack. So my track mechanic welded something that look like what is used on a Honda or Acura. I did not take pictures, I was there to race not window shop
Originally Posted by wa2good
Realy?? Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I do not recall seeing that you have purchased a STB from me, especially since I handle ALL the sales of these braces personally. Pics of all that you describe would be nice. If you have them
I know you have to be intelligent to be from the aerospace industry and comprehension is important in that field....so the only conclusion that I can come to about your post above is to try and discredit me. First off I said I HAVE TRIED YOUR STB...I said nothing about purchasing one from you. Plus, I see them for sale all the time by other G owners. So what was your point???
There were 5 G35 at the track that day. 3 Had ARC or Richie's, and I borrowed your STB from a friend. I broke it, so I paid him for it.
Like I said, I would never have responded to your post if it were not for your insinuation, because 80%-90% of the people that buy STB's will never push it to the G forces that would show the limitations.
Last edited by XKR; Jul 17, 2007 at 12:00 PM.
Originally Posted by XKR
First off, I started road racing in the late 80's, so I am not new to the full cage or structural game. The only reason I am responding to your post is because you are insinuating that your product is better than ARC's which I have found not to be true. Any intelligent person that reads your post will think the same thing. Yes, you were the first to bring this devise to THIS market but not the first to make one. I saw one in Japan on a racing G35 November of 2003.It was not something the US market would want for sure.
I am not going to sit here and thrash your STB or get into a pissing contest with you because at least you have made one, but like I said, you were insinuating that yours is better. But if I am wrong...my bad.
As an Aerospace design person, you know that every design has a weak point (ex; Space Shuttle). You have identified ARC's....did you identify yours? Well, we have!! I will use this analogy to explain it....."the finger can never be stronger than the arm, keep pushing the arm and the finger will break." The fingers are the welded parts on your STB that connect to the car.The weld joints started to crack. So my track mechanic welded something that look like what is used on a Honda or Acura. I did not take pictures, I was there to race not window shop
I know you have to be intelligent to be from the aerospace industry and comprehension is important in that field....so the only conclusion that I can come to about your post above is to try and discredit me. First off I said I HAVE TRIED YOUR STB...I said nothing about purchasing one from you. Plus, I see them for sale all the time by other G owners. So what was your point???
There were 5 G35 at the track that day. 3 Had ARC or Richie's, and I borrowed your STB from a friend. I broke it, so I paid him for it.
Like I said, I would never have responded to your post if it were not for your insinuation, because 80%-90% of the people that buy STB's will never push it to the G forces that would show the limitations.
I am not going to sit here and thrash your STB or get into a pissing contest with you because at least you have made one, but like I said, you were insinuating that yours is better. But if I am wrong...my bad.
As an Aerospace design person, you know that every design has a weak point (ex; Space Shuttle). You have identified ARC's....did you identify yours? Well, we have!! I will use this analogy to explain it....."the finger can never be stronger than the arm, keep pushing the arm and the finger will break." The fingers are the welded parts on your STB that connect to the car.The weld joints started to crack. So my track mechanic welded something that look like what is used on a Honda or Acura. I did not take pictures, I was there to race not window shop
I know you have to be intelligent to be from the aerospace industry and comprehension is important in that field....so the only conclusion that I can come to about your post above is to try and discredit me. First off I said I HAVE TRIED YOUR STB...I said nothing about purchasing one from you. Plus, I see them for sale all the time by other G owners. So what was your point???
There were 5 G35 at the track that day. 3 Had ARC or Richie's, and I borrowed your STB from a friend. I broke it, so I paid him for it.
Like I said, I would never have responded to your post if it were not for your insinuation, because 80%-90% of the people that buy STB's will never push it to the G forces that would show the limitations.
I have only made a few of these STB versions that even fit with the JWT TT kit (that you have on your car) and I can acount for them all. So maybe you got one of my STB's that was not designed to fit the way it should and might have had issues, or you are ????????????????????
Last edited by wa2good; Jul 17, 2007 at 02:06 PM.
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From: Sugar Land TX/Boca Raton FL/Carefree AZ
Originally Posted by wa2good
Forgive me for finding this hard to believe. If you broke my (properly installed) STB then send it back to me. I would gladely warantee it, and I would love to see it.
I have only made a few of these STB versions that even fit with the JWT TT kit (that you have on your car) and I can acount for them all. So maybe you got one of my STB's that was not designed to fit the way it should and might have had issues, or you are ????????????????????
I have only made a few of these STB versions that even fit with the JWT TT kit (that you have on your car) and I can acount for them all. So maybe you got one of my STB's that was not designed to fit the way it should and might have had issues, or you are ????????????????????
Second off, Sharif has my car as we speak and I wont get it back until next week. Because of my racing back ground, I believe in doing suspension and brakes before power. So its obvious that it did not have the JWT setup when your STB was tested. I did also mention that there was more than one G35 at the track that day, did I not Third off, You did see that I mentioned that we modified your STB...so I am sure you would not give a refund, plus, I am sure you know that a person like me that spends over $40K on motor,Turbos,Diff and transmission upgrades at one time on a car that cost 40K brand new does not care about a refund, thats why I did not care about breaking it. So I see you keep trying to discredit me. I have nothing against you...I have never spoken to you....I just can't have you posting misleading info about your competitors product and making them think your STB is better. I grew up in racing with Peter Farrell, Cameron Worth (Pettit Racing) Steve Millen (Stillen), so like I said, I am not new to this game!!! I have been racing a long time...So i know how to push a car to the limit, and how to build it so it gets to the limit safely.Do you think I am the only person that came to the conclusion about your STB Think again. A lot of people talk on here about Stillen stuff is crap....But I assure you that a lot of real time testing went into those products..Camber/Toe kits, Sway bars. When it comes to cosmetic things and exhaust, everyone has their own taste. He just does not make something...slap it on to a street car that poses like a race car and then say its good to go.He has real test mules. I am one of the BIGGEST car nut God has ever put on this planet. If you have a big name company that makes products for my cars...I am coming to your factory. It could be in Japan ,England or Germany...I am comming there. So in closing...you have a good day 
Last edited by XKR; Jul 17, 2007 at 08:01 PM.
Originally Posted by XKR
Scott...first off, did I tell you that i tried to fit your STB to a car with a JWT setup Second off, Sharif has my car as we speak and I wont get it back until next week. Because of my racing back ground, I believe in doing suspension and brakes before power. So its obvious that it did not have the JWT setup when your STB was tested. I did also mention that there was more than one G35 at the track that day, did I not Third off, You did see that I mentioned that we modified your STB...so I am sure you would not give a refund, plus, I am sure you know that a person like me that spends over $40K on motor,Turbos,Diff and transmission upgrades at one time on a car that cost 40K brand new does not care about a refund, thats why I did not care about breaking it. So I see you keep trying to discredit me. I have nothing against you...I have never spoken to you....I just can't have you posting misleading info about your competitors product and making them think your STB is better. I grew up in racing with Peter Farrell, Cameron Worth (Pettit Racing) Steve Millen (Stillen), so like I said, I am not new to this game!!! I have been racing a long time...So i know how to push a car to the limit, and how to build it so it gets to the limit safely.Do you think I am the only person that came to the conclusion about your STB Think again. A lot of people talk on here about Stillen stuff is crap....But I assure you that a lot of real time testing went into those products..Camber/Toe kits, Sway bars. When it comes to cosmetic things and exhaust, everyone has their own taste. He just does not make something...slap it on to a street car that poses like a race car and then say its good to go.He has real test mules. I am one of the BIGGEST car nut God has ever put on this planet. If you have a big name company that makes products for my cars...I am coming to your factory. It could be in Japan ,England or Germany...I am comming there. So in closing...you have a good day
Second off, Sharif has my car as we speak and I wont get it back until next week. Because of my racing back ground, I believe in doing suspension and brakes before power. So its obvious that it did not have the JWT setup when your STB was tested. I did also mention that there was more than one G35 at the track that day, did I not Third off, You did see that I mentioned that we modified your STB...so I am sure you would not give a refund, plus, I am sure you know that a person like me that spends over $40K on motor,Turbos,Diff and transmission upgrades at one time on a car that cost 40K brand new does not care about a refund, thats why I did not care about breaking it. So I see you keep trying to discredit me. I have nothing against you...I have never spoken to you....I just can't have you posting misleading info about your competitors product and making them think your STB is better. I grew up in racing with Peter Farrell, Cameron Worth (Pettit Racing) Steve Millen (Stillen), so like I said, I am not new to this game!!! I have been racing a long time...So i know how to push a car to the limit, and how to build it so it gets to the limit safely.Do you think I am the only person that came to the conclusion about your STB Think again. A lot of people talk on here about Stillen stuff is crap....But I assure you that a lot of real time testing went into those products..Camber/Toe kits, Sway bars. When it comes to cosmetic things and exhaust, everyone has their own taste. He just does not make something...slap it on to a street car that poses like a race car and then say its good to go.He has real test mules. I am one of the BIGGEST car nut God has ever put on this planet. If you have a big name company that makes products for my cars...I am coming to your factory. It could be in Japan ,England or Germany...I am comming there. So in closing...you have a good day When you get a chance I still would love to see pics of my STB and the improvements you have made to it. And Stillen...Haha, don't get me started on them and their aluminum front STB that I know of 3 people who have bent those already I am not, nor do I have any intention of discrediting you, so take it easy.
Anyways, I am glad you are such a car enthusiest and racer. The world needs more people like us
. I would love to see your car, especialy at a road race track sometime here in the near future. You can't go wrong with a JWT TT kit. Keep it up, and keep me posted on it.
Last edited by wa2good; Jul 18, 2007 at 05:09 AM.
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From: Sugar Land TX/Boca Raton FL/Carefree AZ
Originally Posted by wa2good
Hahaha, fair enough, fair enough. LOL
When you get a chance I still would love to see pics of my STB and the improvements you have made to it. And Stillen...Haha, don't get me started on them and their aluminum front STB that I know of 3 people who have bent those already I am not, nor do I have any intention of discrediting you, so take it easy.
Anyways, I am glad you are such a car enthusiest and racer. The world needs more people like us . I would love to see your car, especialy at a road race track sometime here in the near future. You can't go wrong with a JWT TT kit. Keep it up, and keep me posted on it.
When you get a chance I still would love to see pics of my STB and the improvements you have made to it. And Stillen...Haha, don't get me started on them and their aluminum front STB that I know of 3 people who have bent those already I am not, nor do I have any intention of discrediting you, so take it easy.
Anyways, I am glad you are such a car enthusiest and racer. The world needs more people like us
. I would love to see your car, especialy at a road race track sometime here in the near future. You can't go wrong with a JWT TT kit. Keep it up, and keep me posted on it. LOL....Well, I would not call it improvements..
I will get the STB and send it to you..but no comments please You notice in my list of Stillen parts I did not mention his STB
. That would be a losing battle for me to argue with you about 
I credited you on the fact that you were the first person to come up with the STB for the G
And I just want to make something clear... I was not saying anything is wrong with your STB and that ARC or Richie's STB is perfect. Everything man made has limitations, and we were trying to see the limitations of each STB at the track. We found the limitations of ARC's, Richie's and yours....BUT like I said, only a very small percentage will ever push a car to those limits. Let me even go further and say (just to be fair to you Scott) that we were using Slicks and NOT street tires. When you can see a car turning on the Apex and the passenger front wheel is off the ground...you know you have arrived.... Keep up the good work, and I hope to see more G/Z aftermarket improvements from you...
In a perfect world we would have a bar like the EVO can have. Straight across tower to tower. NO curves in the middle to flex, no legs or fingers to flex, plus a nice juicy fire wall tie in. We can't have that hence I don't own anyone's bar. When someone makes a bar with those features somehow in 4130, I would pay dearly for it and sacrifice untold compromises to have it. Thanks alot Nissan for the engine bay layout we got stuck with
Last edited by Gsedan35; Jul 18, 2007 at 11:44 AM.