BTW- In an understeer situation, you would NOT want to slam on your brakes, as this would completely unbalance the car and induce a TTO (Trailing-Throttle Oversteer) situation, which would send you spinning to the inside of a turn. Your best bet is to smoothly lift out of the throttle and input more steering angle. The car will "scrub" off speed on its own with increased tire slip angles.

And in oversteer, braking will exacerbate the situation as well. Since a lot of the weight is already on the front wheels during oversteer, braking will force the rears to lock up first, increasing the slide and decreasing your control. Throttle input will (perhaps) return weight to the rear of the car and allow the rear tires to hook up.

LOL.....If you are on a race track and you are at a narrow point on the track and you have concrete on both sides of you, and the car has a tendency to understeer....and the front breaks loose, I guess you think you will have time to WRONG!!! YOu would "smoothly lift out of the throttle and input more steering" Into the wall At this point all you can do is try and limit the amount of damage to the car. They teach you in racing school (over 14 years of experience)that if the front breaks loose and you are heading to the wall or tire wall...put both feet to the floor ( one foot on the clutch and the other on the brake) You every watch racing on TV when the driver is coming in hot and he turns the wheel and the car goes straight and know he knows that he will not make the corner, so he FLAT SPOTS the tires That smoke you see is not from the exhaust Its coming from the tires That means the driver is slamming on the brakes.This is why Oversteer is the choice of skilled drivers. I don't get my info from magazines or Playstation.. I get it from behind the wheel

I have mine set soft up front and stiffest in the rear. The car feels very nutral in corners and I have never experienced oversteer. I think my car is perfect with this setup.

Great peice of information here, i agree 100%

-Sean

Well, I'm not sure what racing schools you have attended, but you might ask for your money back. My advice comes from my own experience with 2 racing schools (Skip Barber and Bondurant), 16 years of autocross experience, 2 seasons of Barber Formula Fords, and 20 years of driving on the street. No one in any of my racing schools ever advised me to put both feet to the floor in an understeer situation. In fact, Barber's advice was: "When in doubt, both feet out. In a SPIN, both feet in." You can call them and ask them this yourself.

If you're talking about going straight and then braking in a straight line to avoid a wall, or if you've lost all traction, fine, slam on your brakes till the cows come home. Nobody would dispute that. But I wasn't referring to a total loss of control situation. I was talking about a situation where you have already input steering angle and are in the turn and the car understeers. Locking up your brakes in that situation is a recipe for disaster. In fact lifting too hard in that situation (Trailing Throttle Oversteer) is also a recipe for disaster because it unbalances the car, which can lead to an inside spin (which may be safer than hitting the wall, however.) Yes, oversteer is desired by better drivers, but that's not the point here. For most folks, managing understeer with a careful lift is the way to go, especially on the street. Yes, you can snap off the throttle to get a little oversteer if you can handle it on the track, but again, we're not slamming on the brakes.

Anyway, don't take my word for it. Here's a posting that describes what I'm talking about:
http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/a....aspx?post=601
"Incidentally, when most folks start understeering, their natural reaction is to lift off the throttle. This is why most street cars tend towards understeer when you drive them off the lot - it's generally safer for the average Joe in most situations...

The trick here is to get back on the throttle at just the right time and the right amount to get weight back on the rear tires without breaking them loose, or you just might loop it all the way around. That said, a quick lift like this is often a good way to clear up a mild-to-moderate understeer with minimal time loss under racing conditions. I say "under racing conditions" because during qualifying, the lap is probably shot. And on the street, just lift slowly and carefully. :-)"

Here are some other random web links to help you:
http://securitydriver.com/aic/stories/article-124.html
http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/2007Tar...inalDraft2.doc
http://www.ehow.com/how_2001132_corr...cornering.html

I challenge you to find one that says to slam on the brakes when understeering.

So why exactly is it promoting understeer? From what I read, it promotes oversteer.

You are correct. The stiffer end of the car loses traction first. So, stiffen the rear in relation to the front, and you get oversteer. Soften the rear in relation to the front and you get understeer:

http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/...orrections.htm

Don't you just love it when someone tries to argue a point when they don't know what the points of the argument is You have just proven me correct

By the way...I did not waste my money, I completed the Pro course at Road Atlanta back in the early 90's, after then I received my IMSA license. Two 24 hours of Daytona. I did three 2 hour runs...one at night and the rest in day light.The car made it 21 hours before loosing transmission and the other time lost the turbos.

I have ran in road races at Moroso Raceway, Sebring Raceway and also Phoenix International Raceway. No big deal, if you have 10K to 20K (depending on the car) and you have a Pro license anyone can drive.

You do Autocross? You bearly get up to speed to come out of second gear, not to mention third gear. Of course your theory would not apply here. Did you read my response to your post I even gave an example about when watching TV and you see a car approaching a corner and when a driver sees that he is coming in too hot and he is trapped in Understeer...you see him SLAM on the brakes flat spotting the tires Now with the experience you said you have, dont you know that when the word FLATSPOTTING a tire was mentioned, should that not have told you that this discussion is not about Autocrossing and more about high speed

Please read a post and comprehend it before trying to argue a point. The rules that apply to Road Racing (average top speeds of 160-190mph) would not apply to Autocrossing (average top speeds of 20 -40mph)

Dan...every car is different, and even 2 cars of the same exact model, can also react differently. But one rule of thumb is "Never set up a car where the shocks and springs are softer in the front and Harder in the rear.

You ever see a... for example, an old Caddy when you slam on the brakes, the front dips? That dramatic transferal of weight prevents steering control under braking when the rear is stiffer than the front.

From my experience (depending on the car and driver the effect of control you want) Medium Front & Medium Rear.... Medium Front & Soft Rear.... Hard front & Medium Rear are the settings we use for achieving a neutral feel to a little Oversteer to alot of Oversteer.

I have not proven you correct except to agree that when you lose it completely you lock the brakes. That's not the point of this thread or discussion - rather, it was to address how to correct understeer, not to correct a car that has lost all traction. Your original post stated: "but with understeer all you have is the brake." That is what I was in disagreement about.

And talk about reading comprehension...I guess you didn't read the part about my 2 years of road racing Formula Fords with Skippy...I've driven Watkins glen, Lime Rock, Bridgehampton and Mid-America, so I've got plenty of track time.

Finally, to argue that understeer and oversteer don't apply in autocrossing has to be one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard. Nobody who honestly knows anything about motorsports would make such a ridiculous argument. And top speeds in autocross approach 60, not 40, depending on the course. Please do a little research before posting incorrect information. Google is a wonderful tool.

I can see that you don't understand the theory of a car set up What is one of the reasons for using shocks? For keeping the tires planted to the pavement.It is also used to control weight transfer. Oversteer is also caused by weight transfer. Its not just that easy to say "stiffer end of the car loses traction first." It also has to do with controlling the transfer of weight. Also sway bars and so on. Under power, you want the weight to transfer to the rear on RWD cars, and under braking you want the car to be neutral causing all four tires to have the same traction. I GIVE UP!! If you did not learn this in "Autocross School"...I cant help you

I was talking about this theory will not apply. I can see you only have 2 years experience...was that in reading

And exactly why wouldn't it apply? Please shower us with your "brilliance." LOL.

Look, it's a nice try throwing in "weight transfer" to try and confuse the situation, but I didn't make that up. Sure weight transfer matters as I've already discussed in TTO, but we're not changing shocks here. In general, it is absolutely correct to say that, all other variables being held constant (as in the case being discussed here of just adding or adjusting sway bars), the stiffer end of the car will lose traction first in a turn. That table is a an old standby used by racers everywhere to set up cars. I'm sorry if you never covered it in your "racing school" but it's pretty well known.

This is that post you responded to. Note the word High Speed. I am sure you could not mistake that statement for referring to Autocross. Your THEORY FOR SCRUBBING OFF SPEED WOULD NOT APPLY WHILE HEADING TO A WALL OR TIRE WIRE AT High SPEED GET IT

Also, I said AVERAGE TOP SPEED OF AUTO CROSS. NOT TOP SPEED YOU GET THAT ALSO Not everyone goes 60mph. If one person goes 60 mph and most of the other go 50 or 40.....the AVERAGE SPEED IS NOT 60. In formula one, some cars reach 205mph but the average speed is not 205mph.....it could be 190 or 195 or less.

I apologize to the rest of you for posting on here like this.