You want a camber kit, they all have some caster adjustment due to the inherent design of the part but you don't need to worry about caster honestly. Just set camber and toe, if caster is off then so be it this isn't a dedicated track car. I think mine is an entire degree out of spec and it's no problem.

Yes you toe is out of spec, TOTAL toe should be 0.08 in the front, each corner should be 0.04, the tech made almost no attempt to even out the two sides which is also very important. There's double the toe on one corner compared to the other which causes weird steer angle problems.

Rear toe total should be the nominal value from the FSM which is 0.12 degree or 0.06 per corner, I have no clue why their recommended specs are so far off from what the FSM recommends. I suspect they ran that much toe because getting it down was pulling camber out of spec, it's much better to have toe within spec than camber.

Camber means the tire is sitting at an angle instead of flat on the road, it wears evenly but at an angle with the inboard edge seeing more wear (number of degrees based on camber setting) compared to the outer edge.

Toe being off is basically the equivalent of turning the steering wheel at a slight angle while something pulls the car in a straight line, it causes the tires to drag sideways across the road instead of rolling flat down the road. This video does a fair job of explaining this near the end of the video

 

As an example of a wheel alignment, here's what I typically run for daily driver city/highway use on my 2006 coupe. Super mild camber in the front and even less in the rear, toe in spec. Car runs nice and straight with minimal tire wear.

 

Highway speed pushes down the front considerably so those "dry" numbers on the rack and up being quite a bit higher on camber when you have a lot of air pushing the front down. Probably an additional half a degree minus camber at speed.

 

Thank you for the information and the graphic. I was looking at the FSU and I think what confused me is that they show the Toe in Inches... I just wasn't sure how that translates to degrees. So the 0.04 for each corner, I could just tell them 0.04 degrees, then? Also, I see your caster is even worse than mine... and my camber doesn't actually look horrible all things considered. Which makes me wonder why they would recommend a camber kit when it is the caster that "seems" out of spec. I'm especially confused since the Toe is so far off the FSM... why bother with the camber if the caster and toe are off and the camber *seems* to be within range?

I did watch a few videos on YouTube about suspensions and understand turning radius, scrubbing distance, camber, and toe... I just didn't know what they meant practically, rather than in theory...

This is very confusing. I will ask my main mechanic to do an alignment with these specs, from the FSM/what you posted here as nominal. Is there any reason they wouldn't be able to get those Toes? Is it worth it for me to buy a camber kit? Also, what are shims? And are they usable in this situation/does it make sense to?

One other question (as if I didn't give you enough). Are the 1st gen suspensions the same for the Coupe and the Sedan? IE. if there's a TSB on the coupe compression rod, do they use the same rod on the Sedan?

I will start looking at camber kits if you think it is warranted. Otherwise I will ask for the alignment to be to MY specs (aka the ones in the FSM) rather than whatever they are going off of. And if I get any gruff I'll report back and let you know what they say!

Thank you again so much for you help.

 

Replying to myself... just in case anyone else stumbles upon this thread. No update since it's Sunday and everywhere is closed.

I found this on another site. If it is not ok to repost it here, please let me know or take it down. But I was wondering if this applied to just coupes or coupes and sedans and it appears to apply to all 2WDs.

How can I know if this was addressed or not? I'm the third owner.

I did see the entries in the TSB mega thread, however they are brief and truncated and only descriptions, I could not find the actual document itself. Please pardon me if this is crowding the site (if it's posted somewhere else) or if this is not allowed.

 

Just to confirm, those figures you're quoting, are positive numbers and Toe IN, right? That's what I gather from the FSU... sorry for a stupid question.

 

Your last posted alignment sheet looked okay to me although a bit more toe in than I would like still within spec. Within reasonable limits of caster and camber on the front. If the car's still pulling, that means something is changing in your alignment every time you drive the car, eg. worn out.

The front camber and caster is not adjustable from factory, but the only reason it would be off is if you're lowered or if you've got worn out bushings, ball joints, or bent components in your suspension. If you're not lowered, the correct solution to the problem would be fixing the problem that causes the issue in the first place, not adding a front camber kit. That would be a waste of money and your dynamic alignment (when you're moving) would still be off because of all the sloppy components.

These are pretty delicate front suspensions, especially the compression rods (both the ball joint and bushing wear out 50-100k depending on road quality, driving style, etc) and inner lower control arm bushings. Either or both of these components failing will cause toe, caster and camber changes in the front end while you're driving.

If you're having issues I suggest you replace compression rods on both sides, and have your mechanic install all these bushings in your existing lower control arm and both new compression rods. These polyurethane bushings won't fail and you'll get noticeably better road feel and grip in hard cornering.
https://www.z1motorsports.com/suspen...saAhkkEALw_wcB

While those are getting replaced it's a pretty simple matter to impact wrench two bolts off and check for play the main lower ball joints which would be the only other component in the front besides those I've mentioned which could cause dynamic alignment changes... other than the upper control arms, but if those are bad it's pretty obvious.

Are you getting any noticeable clunks over rough roads or anything else that would indicate a suspension issue?

This forum enabled me to own my G and become knowledgeable in car mechanics, I haven't bought a membership but I do like to give back on occasion.

 

Your logic seems sound to me. It is a 17 year old car with 188k miles on it.

I am worried about the passenger's side Compression Rod specifically, due to the TSB that was put out. Despite repeated alignments and mostly in spec, or close to spec, and comparing my measurements to others, it seems to do exactly the behavior described in the bulletin. Also I am the third owner of the car and I don't know what part is on there now.

I see the kit includes bushings, is there a need to replace the rod itself? Or the bushings will suffice?

My guy did mention that my lower control arm bushings are wearing out, but he seemed more concerned about the caster and camber, and wanted to have the camber kit to adjust. But my concern is that the kit wouldn't rectify the issue. Seeing your response kind of confirms that to me, as well as seeing other people's specs that aren't reporting my issue.

The bushing set you linked me says it includes Front Inner Control arm bushings; I'm assuming that are the lowers then as it specifically says it doesn't include uppers... Sorry I'm not too educated on suspension parts.

For anyone else who was curious, since my alignment places uses degrees, rather than inches, I was confused about what to tell them. Is this right since the measurements in FSU/RSU are given in inches? I stumbled upon these equations to convert inches to degrees but I'm no math major so I'm not 100% sure of their accuracy:

g35
front toe in
total toe in 0.04 inches ,17 inch wheels, 26.311023622047244 inch tire diameter
convert tan^-1(0.04"/26.311023622047244") to degrees
0.0871 degrees total
/2 (two tires)

0.04355 degrees toe in each front tire

rear toe in
total toe in 0.11 inches 17 inch wheels, same tire diameter
convert tan^-1(0.11"/26.311023622047244") to degrees
0.24 degrees total
/2 (two tires)

0.12 degrees toe in each rear tire

Fully aware I might be trippin...

Thank you again folks for your help and feedback.

 

The alignment "looks good" on the rack when the car isn't moving. The minute you go over some bumps the old bushings shift around like mush and you lose your alignment. You can confirm this by getting an alignment, driving a week, and then getting it checked again. It's going to be off.

You need to replace the rod itself - the ball joint is non-replaceable and while it may be fine now, it'll suck if you pay to change the bushings (I pay $50 for a guy to press out the two new rubber bushings in the compression rods) and then in a year the ball joint starts clunking and you have to pay to have it all ripped apart again - and it WILL start clunking soon if you don't replace it, trust me.

The tech will say "it looks fine you don't need to replace it". He wants double labor for when it fails in a year or two.

Have him replace all the bushings in that Energy poly kit and both compression rods all at once, and make sure he checks the lower ball joints for play and boot leaks while the lower control arm is disconnected from the car. Worry about alignment after all your components are up to spec. Use Moog or OEM parts, Chinese ball joints are terrible and it's rolling the dice on whether they'll wear out early for no apparent reason. In fact I just replaced both of my compression rods last night because I used Chinese ball joints 53k ago to save $40 and one started clunking. It's a much bigger deal for you because a mechanic would want hundreds of dollars and several days of downtime for what a DIYer like me could do in a night with a decent impact.

 

So both compression rods and the bushing set, as well as check the lower ball joints for leaks and play. ... What would you expect this to run someone? I'm interested in having the car for a while but I can't justify like thousands of dollars you know? So far my tires are wearing OK and the only real negative aspect is the pull... It is a 17 year old car with 188K miles so... trying to be prudent here. What do you think?