Sway Bar Summary!
Originally Posted by myst
I have the sports package on my 05 sedan. When I swapped them out for the Stillens, the Stillen rear bar was thicker than the stock bar.
The front bar was similar is size, but since it was adjustable, it can be made to be stiffer than stock.
The front bar was similar is size, but since it was adjustable, it can be made to be stiffer than stock.
New to the sway bar thing, I know it minimizes body roll but what exactly does it do?
What are the optimum settings for best handling without sacrificing much comfort?
What are the optimum settings for best handling without sacrificing much comfort?
Originally Posted by cloud
New to the sway bar thing, I know it minimizes body roll but what exactly does it do?
What are the optimum settings for best handling without sacrificing much comfort?
What are the optimum settings for best handling without sacrificing much comfort?
^^^ very good and simple explanation.
you *want* sway bars. they do *not* effect straight-line car handling in a significant way - only in turns will you notice it's there. a lot of people set their sways to "medium/medium" firmness setting - which is plenty good, and tons better than stock. i can say that the sways were the single best cheap upgrade i did to my car to date.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Marietta, Georgia
Sway bars reduce the independence of independent suspension.
Sway bars REDUCE the traction on the end they are stiffened.
Just like springs [for the street] you want the minimal sway bar stiffness that will do the job of tuning fore/aft roll stiffness ratio.
Most people should start with softer than oem front and stiffer than oem rear.
Remember 3 hole bars are 9 way adjustable [assymetrical attachment holes].
Sway bars REDUCE the traction on the end they are stiffened.
Just like springs [for the street] you want the minimal sway bar stiffness that will do the job of tuning fore/aft roll stiffness ratio.
Most people should start with softer than oem front and stiffer than oem rear.
Remember 3 hole bars are 9 way adjustable [assymetrical attachment holes].
Originally Posted by Q45tech
Sway bars reduce the independence of independent suspension.
Sway bars REDUCE the traction on the end they are stiffened.
Just like springs [for the street] you want the minimal sway bar stiffness that will do the job of tuning fore/aft roll stiffness ratio.
Most people should start with softer than oem front and stiffer than oem rear.
Remember 3 hole bars are 9 way adjustable [assymetrical attachment holes].
Sway bars REDUCE the traction on the end they are stiffened.
Just like springs [for the street] you want the minimal sway bar stiffness that will do the job of tuning fore/aft roll stiffness ratio.
Most people should start with softer than oem front and stiffer than oem rear.
Remember 3 hole bars are 9 way adjustable [assymetrical attachment holes].
1left, 1 right
1 left, 2 right or 2 left, 1 right (same stiffness)
2 left, 2 right, or 1 left, 3 right and 3 left, 1 right (all three are the same)
2 left, 3 right or 3 left, 2 right (both are the same)
3 left 3 right
But yes, the three holes do give more options than just 1, 2, 3, since you don't have to match the left and right.
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Burnaby BC
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by caelric
Actually, they are only five way:
1left, 1 right
1 left, 2 right or 2 left, 1 right (same stiffness)
2 left, 2 right, or 1 left, 3 right and 3 left, 1 right (all three are the same)
2 left, 3 right or 3 left, 2 right (both are the same)
3 left 3 right
But yes, the three holes do give more options than just 1, 2, 3, since you don't have to match the left and right.
Dave
1left, 1 right
1 left, 2 right or 2 left, 1 right (same stiffness)
2 left, 2 right, or 1 left, 3 right and 3 left, 1 right (all three are the same)
2 left, 3 right or 3 left, 2 right (both are the same)
3 left 3 right
But yes, the three holes do give more options than just 1, 2, 3, since you don't have to match the left and right.
Dave
noob to this thing... but why would you want different settings for different sides of the car? [left vs. right?]
Originally Posted by Godzilla35
noob to this thing... but why would you want different settings for different sides of the car? [left vs. right?]
no, you don't want that. he was just listing that to be clever.
No, it's not that you want (or don't want) different settings on different sides of the car. The sides don't matter, what matters is the overall stiffness of the bar. The different settings on each side give more flexibility, so instead of 3 way adjustability, there is overall five way adjustibility, as I listed above.
Dave
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,514
Likes: 5
From: Marietta, Georgia
Actually you don't know that cross numbers are the EXACT same as it depends on which way you are turning because the bar shape is not straight [the convolutions to get around exhaust, etc.] coupled with the angle of the coupling arm. In theory they would be close but you must measure to be sure.
All sway bar formulae assume a straight main section on the bar and 90 degree bends for the coupling arms, even with mesh and conic section decomposition of the shape you cannot get to a 85% accuracy. therefore manufacturers bend one to shape then measure it then adjust the diameter among a few stock sizes.........Why different brand have different stiffness values.........not that they know something the others don't just how they come out using the diameters they have.
Just as the car is not balanced with a driver in the seat..........measure the weight on all four wheels with you in drivers seat at different fuel loads.
Actually there are 6 possible [assumming symetry]1-1, 1-2, 1-3 then 2-2,2-3 and 3-3.
Important to sit down with mathematics and to see/study what these aftermarket bars are really doing to changes instead of blindly slapping them on.
All sway bar formulae assume a straight main section on the bar and 90 degree bends for the coupling arms, even with mesh and conic section decomposition of the shape you cannot get to a 85% accuracy. therefore manufacturers bend one to shape then measure it then adjust the diameter among a few stock sizes.........Why different brand have different stiffness values.........not that they know something the others don't just how they come out using the diameters they have.
Just as the car is not balanced with a driver in the seat..........measure the weight on all four wheels with you in drivers seat at different fuel loads.
Actually there are 6 possible [assumming symetry]1-1, 1-2, 1-3 then 2-2,2-3 and 3-3.
Important to sit down with mathematics and to see/study what these aftermarket bars are really doing to changes instead of blindly slapping them on.
Last edited by Q45tech; Mar 16, 2006 at 08:31 AM.
Well, true, they are probably not exactly the same, since the bars are symmetrical, but like you said, they are pretty durn close.
And my guess is that 1-3 is the same as 2-2, although again, not quite exactly but close.
Anyways, the point is they are more than 3 way adjustable. I have mine set on 1-2 and 2-3, or as like to say, soft/med in the front, and med/hard in the rear.
Dave
And my guess is that 1-3 is the same as 2-2, although again, not quite exactly but close.
Anyways, the point is they are more than 3 way adjustable. I have mine set on 1-2 and 2-3, or as like to say, soft/med in the front, and med/hard in the rear.
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,514
Likes: 5
From: Marietta, Georgia
Look at it this way: Assume 1=7.5%x 2 holes and 2= 25%x 2 holes and 3= 50% x2 holes
1-3 might = 7.5% +50% = 57.5% close to 2+2 =50% but not the same.
Whether 95 lb/in or 90 lb/in is critical depends
Take the as published position stiffness and divide by 2 to yield the per hole stiffness increase.
As an example the old Q45 came with 3 rear bar choices { NONE, 12.5mm, and 20mm the resultant rear roll stiffness was:
[springs + bar if any was] 123, 135, 163 lb/in........Stillen created a 24 mm rear bar as the ultimate 223 with hard rubber and 260 with urethane.
The classical Goldilocks situation.
As you get around 50% stiffer small changes might no be feelable or even measurable on a skid pad.
Tire sidewall stiffness changes about 4% per 1 psi change in inflation over a narrow range around 35 psi.......the sidewall SPRING is in series with the sway bar and vehicle support spring. A professional race driver can feel and complain about the effect of a 1 psi change in tire inflation so maybe 5% changes [whether from springs or bars or tires or the combination] should be feelable to the wannabe street racer.
1-3 might = 7.5% +50% = 57.5% close to 2+2 =50% but not the same.
Whether 95 lb/in or 90 lb/in is critical depends
Take the as published position stiffness and divide by 2 to yield the per hole stiffness increase.
As an example the old Q45 came with 3 rear bar choices { NONE, 12.5mm, and 20mm the resultant rear roll stiffness was:
[springs + bar if any was] 123, 135, 163 lb/in........Stillen created a 24 mm rear bar as the ultimate 223 with hard rubber and 260 with urethane.
The classical Goldilocks situation.
As you get around 50% stiffer small changes might no be feelable or even measurable on a skid pad.
Tire sidewall stiffness changes about 4% per 1 psi change in inflation over a narrow range around 35 psi.......the sidewall SPRING is in series with the sway bar and vehicle support spring. A professional race driver can feel and complain about the effect of a 1 psi change in tire inflation so maybe 5% changes [whether from springs or bars or tires or the combination] should be feelable to the wannabe street racer.
Last edited by Q45tech; Mar 16, 2006 at 12:04 PM.