anything wrong with off the shelf stuff?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 62
From: Chicago
anything wrong with off the shelf stuff?
I know a lot of you guys are a little more in-depth with detailing your cars then the average person.
Over the past year my friends have bought me a lot of off the shelf detailing stuff. mainly brands like turtle wax/ eagle one/meguiar's
now i dont have any experience with waxing but reading these post makes me want to TRY.
I normally just wash my car in the summer with a 2 bucket system, dry with my waffle weave and go over the rest with my MF cloths and then put on tire shine.
What would you guys recommend me complete noob to start off with? I know i have a lot of gel wax and a lot of quick detailer spray. I'm not looking to spend an entire day in the garage. My normal wash takes me 30-60 mins.
I was thinking the best way to get my feet wet is to start off hand waxing just a body panel at a time, say i do hood and both fenders this week and move on to the doors in 2 weeks. and move around like that. Unless anyone have a better method to get my feet wet? Or should i start off with a cheap $50 buffer of some sort? I know a lot of these cheap buffers normally end up burning the paint and messing it up more then anything.
Over the past year my friends have bought me a lot of off the shelf detailing stuff. mainly brands like turtle wax/ eagle one/meguiar's
now i dont have any experience with waxing but reading these post makes me want to TRY.
I normally just wash my car in the summer with a 2 bucket system, dry with my waffle weave and go over the rest with my MF cloths and then put on tire shine.
What would you guys recommend me complete noob to start off with? I know i have a lot of gel wax and a lot of quick detailer spray. I'm not looking to spend an entire day in the garage. My normal wash takes me 30-60 mins.
I was thinking the best way to get my feet wet is to start off hand waxing just a body panel at a time, say i do hood and both fenders this week and move on to the doors in 2 weeks. and move around like that. Unless anyone have a better method to get my feet wet? Or should i start off with a cheap $50 buffer of some sort? I know a lot of these cheap buffers normally end up burning the paint and messing it up more then anything.
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Joined: Apr 2008
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From: suburbs of Chicago
Products off the shelf of a store are fine. Why would you wax a panel a week? It takes me less than a hour to wax my car w/a carnuba paste wax. With a liquid it takes about an hour(maybe slightly more). You need to let a liquid haze before removal. Most pastes are WOWO(wipe on wipe off). Do the whole car or don't do it IMO.
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Connecticut
Over the counter car care products are generally OK, but leave much to be desired.
There's no need to just wax a panel at a time, like Lou noted above you can wax you entire car in no time.
Once you get established you may want to look into ordering a PC to correct your finish with a polish. This will remove the marring and swirls, leaving you with a perfect finish.
Take a look at:
www.migliorewax.com
There's no need to just wax a panel at a time, like Lou noted above you can wax you entire car in no time.
Once you get established you may want to look into ordering a PC to correct your finish with a polish. This will remove the marring and swirls, leaving you with a perfect finish.
Take a look at:
www.migliorewax.com
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Joined: Sep 2006
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The quality of OTC (over-the-counter) products varies with each individual product.
Wash soaps - Generally as good, if not better than boutique stuff. You're just looking for high lubricity and clean rinsing. Most OTC soaps are more than adequate.
Clay - Generally these are OK OTC too. However, the OTC stuff (Meg's, Mothers, etc.) tends to be some of the least aggressive, and most user friendly stuff out there. There are more aggressive clays, but they generally cause marring and should only be used to attack severe paint contamination prior to polishing.
Polish - For the most part, OTC stuff won't do much. Most of the stuff you can find is really a pre-wax cleaner that has some abrasive cutting ability. Also, most OTC stuff is generally made for hand application and therefore won't do much besides clean the paint. If you want serious defect correction, you will need a real polish and a buffer.
Wax/Sealant - Again, most OTC stuff has cleaners, fillers, or both. Meguairs Hi-tech yellow wax and Mother's Step 3 Carnauba wax are exceptions. Both are very good waxes, in my opinion. Personally, I like Collinite, Klasse and Pinnacle products as my LSP. The subtle differences are worth the extra money in my opinion.
Wheel cleaners - Generally, OTC stuff is very acidic and *could* damage wheels over time. Non-acidic cleaners are a bit tougher to find OTC. But if you clean your wheels once, and keep them protected with a good LSP, then you should be able to clean them with regular wash soap anyway.
Tire cleaners/Dressings - Absolutely nothing beats Armor All tire foam and Extreme tire shine gel IMO.
Interior Dressing/Protectant - This is a matter of taste. I personally don't like to have a very oily residue or very shiny surface on my interior. Therefore I stay away from F2001, Armor All, and Black Magic products. Mother's protectant is just as good as 303 stuff IMO.
So to answer the questions - Most OTC stuff is ok. 90% of your results will come from technique and effort and 10% is dependent on the quality of the product. When you get as obsessed about detailing as I am, you'll be able to notice the subtle differences between the OTC products and the boutique brands.
Wash soaps - Generally as good, if not better than boutique stuff. You're just looking for high lubricity and clean rinsing. Most OTC soaps are more than adequate.
Clay - Generally these are OK OTC too. However, the OTC stuff (Meg's, Mothers, etc.) tends to be some of the least aggressive, and most user friendly stuff out there. There are more aggressive clays, but they generally cause marring and should only be used to attack severe paint contamination prior to polishing.
Polish - For the most part, OTC stuff won't do much. Most of the stuff you can find is really a pre-wax cleaner that has some abrasive cutting ability. Also, most OTC stuff is generally made for hand application and therefore won't do much besides clean the paint. If you want serious defect correction, you will need a real polish and a buffer.
Wax/Sealant - Again, most OTC stuff has cleaners, fillers, or both. Meguairs Hi-tech yellow wax and Mother's Step 3 Carnauba wax are exceptions. Both are very good waxes, in my opinion. Personally, I like Collinite, Klasse and Pinnacle products as my LSP. The subtle differences are worth the extra money in my opinion.
Wheel cleaners - Generally, OTC stuff is very acidic and *could* damage wheels over time. Non-acidic cleaners are a bit tougher to find OTC. But if you clean your wheels once, and keep them protected with a good LSP, then you should be able to clean them with regular wash soap anyway.
Tire cleaners/Dressings - Absolutely nothing beats Armor All tire foam and Extreme tire shine gel IMO.
Interior Dressing/Protectant - This is a matter of taste. I personally don't like to have a very oily residue or very shiny surface on my interior. Therefore I stay away from F2001, Armor All, and Black Magic products. Mother's protectant is just as good as 303 stuff IMO.
So to answer the questions - Most OTC stuff is ok. 90% of your results will come from technique and effort and 10% is dependent on the quality of the product. When you get as obsessed about detailing as I am, you'll be able to notice the subtle differences between the OTC products and the boutique brands.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 62
From: Chicago
would you recommend me start off applying wax by hand?
polish, wax, sealant... is there much diffrence between them?
as for wheel cleaners, i normally just use simple green, i think i read somewhere they told me simple green wheel cleaner is the lease acidic or something along those lines.
polish, wax, sealant... is there much diffrence between them?
as for wheel cleaners, i normally just use simple green, i think i read somewhere they told me simple green wheel cleaner is the lease acidic or something along those lines.
Everybody starts OTC at first...I know I did. Walking through Target, Autozone, etc and picking out what brand names and packages looked the best. At first you think they are fine. They you get a taste of what some of the specialized products can do and it opens your eyes to a whole new level of detailing results.
Ghaleon...I think your above post is spot on! Only difference I have is tire shine...I use Zaino...which like interior this is just a personal preference.
Ghaleon...I think your above post is spot on! Only difference I have is tire shine...I use Zaino...which like interior this is just a personal preference.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by TurTLe*
would you recommend me start off applying wax by hand?
polish, wax, sealant... is there much diffrence between them?
as for wheel cleaners, i normally just use simple green, i think i read somewhere they told me simple green wheel cleaner is the lease acidic or something along those lines.
polish, wax, sealant... is there much diffrence between them?
as for wheel cleaners, i normally just use simple green, i think i read somewhere they told me simple green wheel cleaner is the lease acidic or something along those lines.
And polish, wax, and sealant are all completely different products.
Polish - Generally a polish is an abrasive paste that when combined with a mechanical buffer will break down and smooth over the rough edges of paint defects, if not remove them entirely by gently wearing away and smoothing the clear coat around the defect. In some cases, some brands will expand the definition of the word "polish" to include an aggressive paint cleanser or even a synthetic paint protectant. But for the most part, polish is something that cleans and corrects defects in the paint and will not leave any kind of residue on the paint.
Sealant - Means a synthetic protectant for your paint. It bonds to clean paint and provides a protective barrier against things like water spots, bird crap, and acid rain. It prevents these things from actually penetrating yoru clear coat and creating a defect. Synthetic sealants are generally much more durable than carnauba waxes and will last alot longer than carnauba waxes.
Wax - I don't remember the exact name of the tree, but there is a tree in the rainforests of brazil that produces a wax that coats its leaves, and this prevents the leaves from being destroyed by the heavy rains in the rainforest. This wax is harvested, and refined, and applied to car paint to provide the exact same protection. The problem with this is, that the wax in its pure form is rock hard. it must be milled and then mixed with any number of solvents and oils so that it can be spread easily on the car surface. The amount and purity of the harvested wax, the milling process, and the type and amount of solvents and oils all vary widely. That is why a can of Turtle Wax costs $4.99 and a container of Zymol costs $10,000. Many waxes that you can buy OTC contain fillers, and cleaners that will mask defects in the paint and make the car look awesome right after application. But because of the high content of oils and solvents, the wax will provide very little protection for only a short time.
The key to any product you use is to know exactly what it is. As I said, many brands will expand the definition of certain terms and confuse consumers. Then think logically about what the product does and fit it into your process properly.
For example, a was that has a very high content of cleaners should not be layered. Obviously, if your wax is cleaning the paint, a second coat will only clean off the first coat.
Also, be careful of the words 'sealer' and 'sealant'. I actually got the people at Mother's to admit that their Step 2 sealer glaze actually contains no 'sealing' properties at all. They can do this because by definition a sealANT provides protection while a sealER doesn't have to.
Another blantant false advertisement is Meguiars #9 swirl remover. While it does have some "cut" (though barely), it's primary purpose, and most potent application is as a defect filler. So even though the label says "Swirl REMOVER", they really mean that it's a swirl HIDER.
I know this is all confusing, but if you want good results, you need to be familiar with this stuff. Post the products and process that you plan to use on here or on Autopia. I can't tell you how many times i've seen people apply a glaze and then follow it up with a cleaner wax that just destroys all the work in the previous step. Or i read about people using a filler-heavy polish like Megs #9 and follow it up with a Sealant that can't possibly bond properly to that kind of base.
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Also - don't believe the hype (including my own) about acidic wheel cleaners. Let's face it, they wouldn't sell them if they didn't work. And they really do work. I've used many different OTC acidic wheel cleaners and had fantastic results.
The acid only becomes a problem if you leave it on for a long time, or if you use it ALOT.
I'll admit, every spring, after a long salty, sandy, winter I will hit my wheels with one of these cleaners. Why? Because it's easy, and it works. And I'm not really hurting my wheels if I only use it some of the time.
The rest of the time, I maintain my wheels with a good wax and/or sealant so that the brake dust doesn't accumulate as fast, and cleans off easier. I'm more worried about acidic wheel cleaners ruining the wax than I am worried about the cleaner ruining the wheel itself.
There are easier, and better ways to care for your wheels on a week to week basis. However, if you let them go for a long time, or have a particularly harsh winter, an occassional cleanign with one of these cleaners isn't the end of the world.
The acid only becomes a problem if you leave it on for a long time, or if you use it ALOT.
I'll admit, every spring, after a long salty, sandy, winter I will hit my wheels with one of these cleaners. Why? Because it's easy, and it works. And I'm not really hurting my wheels if I only use it some of the time.
The rest of the time, I maintain my wheels with a good wax and/or sealant so that the brake dust doesn't accumulate as fast, and cleans off easier. I'm more worried about acidic wheel cleaners ruining the wax than I am worried about the cleaner ruining the wheel itself.
There are easier, and better ways to care for your wheels on a week to week basis. However, if you let them go for a long time, or have a particularly harsh winter, an occassional cleanign with one of these cleaners isn't the end of the world.
Originally Posted by Ghaleon0721
I always apply wax by hand. Applying it by machine can be done, it's just a matter of preference. I don't think it makes a difference.
And polish, wax, and sealant are all completely different products.
Polish - Generally a polish is an abrasive paste that when combined with a mechanical buffer will break down and smooth over the rough edges of paint defects, if not remove them entirely by gently wearing away and smoothing the clear coat around the defect. In some cases, some brands will expand the definition of the word "polish" to include an aggressive paint cleanser or even a synthetic paint protectant. But for the most part, polish is something that cleans and corrects defects in the paint and will not leave any kind of residue on the paint.
Sealant - Means a synthetic protectant for your paint. It bonds to clean paint and provides a protective barrier against things like water spots, bird crap, and acid rain. It prevents these things from actually penetrating yoru clear coat and creating a defect. Synthetic sealants are generally much more durable than carnauba waxes and will last alot longer than carnauba waxes.
Wax - I don't remember the exact name of the tree, but there is a tree in the rainforests of brazil that produces a wax that coats its leaves, and this prevents the leaves from being destroyed by the heavy rains in the rainforest. This wax is harvested, and refined, and applied to car paint to provide the exact same protection. The problem with this is, that the wax in its pure form is rock hard. it must be milled and then mixed with any number of solvents and oils so that it can be spread easily on the car surface. The amount and purity of the harvested wax, the milling process, and the type and amount of solvents and oils all vary widely. That is why a can of Turtle Wax costs $4.99 and a container of Zymol costs $10,000. Many waxes that you can buy OTC contain fillers, and cleaners that will mask defects in the paint and make the car look awesome right after application. But because of the high content of oils and solvents, the wax will provide very little protection for only a short time.
The key to any product you use is to know exactly what it is. As I said, many brands will expand the definition of certain terms and confuse consumers. Then think logically about what the product does and fit it into your process properly.
For example, a was that has a very high content of cleaners should not be layered. Obviously, if your wax is cleaning the paint, a second coat will only clean off the first coat.
Also, be careful of the words 'sealer' and 'sealant'. I actually got the people at Mother's to admit that their Step 2 sealer glaze actually contains no 'sealing' properties at all. They can do this because by definition a sealANT provides protection while a sealER doesn't have to.
Another blantant false advertisement is Meguiars #9 swirl remover. While it does have some "cut" (though barely), it's primary purpose, and most potent application is as a defect filler. So even though the label says "Swirl REMOVER", they really mean that it's a swirl HIDER.
I know this is all confusing, but if you want good results, you need to be familiar with this stuff. Post the products and process that you plan to use on here or on Autopia. I can't tell you how many times i've seen people apply a glaze and then follow it up with a cleaner wax that just destroys all the work in the previous step. Or i read about people using a filler-heavy polish like Megs #9 and follow it up with a Sealant that can't possibly bond properly to that kind of base.
And polish, wax, and sealant are all completely different products.
Polish - Generally a polish is an abrasive paste that when combined with a mechanical buffer will break down and smooth over the rough edges of paint defects, if not remove them entirely by gently wearing away and smoothing the clear coat around the defect. In some cases, some brands will expand the definition of the word "polish" to include an aggressive paint cleanser or even a synthetic paint protectant. But for the most part, polish is something that cleans and corrects defects in the paint and will not leave any kind of residue on the paint.
Sealant - Means a synthetic protectant for your paint. It bonds to clean paint and provides a protective barrier against things like water spots, bird crap, and acid rain. It prevents these things from actually penetrating yoru clear coat and creating a defect. Synthetic sealants are generally much more durable than carnauba waxes and will last alot longer than carnauba waxes.
Wax - I don't remember the exact name of the tree, but there is a tree in the rainforests of brazil that produces a wax that coats its leaves, and this prevents the leaves from being destroyed by the heavy rains in the rainforest. This wax is harvested, and refined, and applied to car paint to provide the exact same protection. The problem with this is, that the wax in its pure form is rock hard. it must be milled and then mixed with any number of solvents and oils so that it can be spread easily on the car surface. The amount and purity of the harvested wax, the milling process, and the type and amount of solvents and oils all vary widely. That is why a can of Turtle Wax costs $4.99 and a container of Zymol costs $10,000. Many waxes that you can buy OTC contain fillers, and cleaners that will mask defects in the paint and make the car look awesome right after application. But because of the high content of oils and solvents, the wax will provide very little protection for only a short time.
The key to any product you use is to know exactly what it is. As I said, many brands will expand the definition of certain terms and confuse consumers. Then think logically about what the product does and fit it into your process properly.
For example, a was that has a very high content of cleaners should not be layered. Obviously, if your wax is cleaning the paint, a second coat will only clean off the first coat.
Also, be careful of the words 'sealer' and 'sealant'. I actually got the people at Mother's to admit that their Step 2 sealer glaze actually contains no 'sealing' properties at all. They can do this because by definition a sealANT provides protection while a sealER doesn't have to.
Another blantant false advertisement is Meguiars #9 swirl remover. While it does have some "cut" (though barely), it's primary purpose, and most potent application is as a defect filler. So even though the label says "Swirl REMOVER", they really mean that it's a swirl HIDER.
I know this is all confusing, but if you want good results, you need to be familiar with this stuff. Post the products and process that you plan to use on here or on Autopia. I can't tell you how many times i've seen people apply a glaze and then follow it up with a cleaner wax that just destroys all the work in the previous step. Or i read about people using a filler-heavy polish like Megs #9 and follow it up with a Sealant that can't possibly bond properly to that kind of base.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 62
From: Chicago
thanks,
well this is what i know i have in the garage,
when it comes to material used, how much should one have for a typical detail.
I have a 50 bag of MF towels for sam's club and waffle weave drying towel. I dont know what type of applicator pad to use and etc. if you can link me to something so i have an image and anything else i might need. how is the water blade thing?
i'm just going to stick to the 2 bucket system and just wash and then wax this summer. do you normally recommend waxing monthly? I normally wash weekly.
well this is what i know i have in the garage,
when it comes to material used, how much should one have for a typical detail.
I have a 50 bag of MF towels for sam's club and waffle weave drying towel. I dont know what type of applicator pad to use and etc. if you can link me to something so i have an image and anything else i might need. how is the water blade thing?
i'm just going to stick to the 2 bucket system and just wash and then wax this summer. do you normally recommend waxing monthly? I normally wash weekly.
I would get a paste wax instead of the liquid wax. Meguirs NXT wax is pretty good, looks pretty good on darker colored cars (but not black as much), and is OTC. It's about $15, fills in swirls, looks good, beads well, but only lasts about 3weeks- 1 month outside, although some people report it lasts longer.
If you like doing this, I would go with waxing. If you don't, spend some money on a quality sealant. They do the same thing as a wax, last A LOT longer, but are argueably less in the looks department. Some last around 7-8 months. Also, before you put on a new layer of wax or sealent, you have to strip the old one off first.
BTW, buy a clay bar.
If you like doing this, I would go with waxing. If you don't, spend some money on a quality sealant. They do the same thing as a wax, last A LOT longer, but are argueably less in the looks department. Some last around 7-8 months. Also, before you put on a new layer of wax or sealent, you have to strip the old one off first.
BTW, buy a clay bar.
Defintely start with OTC stuff. I have been detailing for a while, and I know how to use the products, so I use better quality stuff. But ur an amateur, and dont yet know what to do. So use the cheap stuff, because u wont see any difference anyway without the right techniques. Id try and find someone knowledgebale close to you and have them show u the ropes. Really al you need to do though is wash it (10 min), clay it (15), polish by machine (if you get a random orbital like the griots one which i love you wont burn through ur paint, 25), and wax (30). everything you do, do in straight lines. Im sure youve heard to go in circles, but dont. Overlap, like ur mowing a lawn. Wax by hand also. Meguiars will be your best bet. Nanotech is pretty good for what it is. Wax monthly, wash weekly.
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From: Indiana
Defintely start with OTC stuff. I have been detailing for a while, and I know how to use the products, so I use better quality stuff. But ur an amateur, and dont yet know what to do. So use the cheap stuff, because u wont see any difference anyway without the right techniques. Id try and find someone knowledgebale close to you and have them show u the ropes. Really al you need to do though is wash it (10 min), clay it (15), polish by machine (if you get a random orbital like the griots one which i love you wont burn through ur paint, 25), and wax (30). everything you do, do in straight lines. Im sure youve heard to go in circles, but dont. Overlap, like ur mowing a lawn. Wax by hand also. Meguiars will be your best bet. Nanotech is pretty good for what it is. Wax monthly, wash weekly.
I use a lot of OTC stuff that I buy locally.
Claybars(Megs, Mothers, Clay Magic:whichever is on sale)
Car wash (Megs Gold Class/NXT)
Glass cleaner (Stoner's)
APC (Meg's APC+)
Degreaser (Oil Eater)
Tire Shine (Meg's Endurance, Armor All Tire Gel)
Wheel well dressing (Armor All Tire Foam)
Sealant (Meg's #21 Synthetic Sealant)
Wheel Cleaner (Eagle 1 All Wheel Cleaner[OEM wheels], Meg's Multipiece Wheel Cleaner[Aftermarket wheels])
Claybars(Megs, Mothers, Clay Magic:whichever is on sale)
Car wash (Megs Gold Class/NXT)
Glass cleaner (Stoner's)
APC (Meg's APC+)
Degreaser (Oil Eater)
Tire Shine (Meg's Endurance, Armor All Tire Gel)
Wheel well dressing (Armor All Tire Foam)
Sealant (Meg's #21 Synthetic Sealant)
Wheel Cleaner (Eagle 1 All Wheel Cleaner[OEM wheels], Meg's Multipiece Wheel Cleaner[Aftermarket wheels])
All clay comes from the same company, so Griots is fine for that.
I like blackfire finishing polish for light stuff, and if the scratches are a little deeper ill use menzerma super intesive polish, then come back with the finishing.
Menzerna finishing touch glaze
Blackfire black diamond sealant
I use zymol wax, expensive, but worth it
Blackfire tire shine too
I like blackfire finishing polish for light stuff, and if the scratches are a little deeper ill use menzerma super intesive polish, then come back with the finishing.
Menzerna finishing touch glaze
Blackfire black diamond sealant
I use zymol wax, expensive, but worth it
Blackfire tire shine too