Well I guess if the CG won't stand up to a rain storm and I can't wax over it there is no choice but to try to remove it with a detergent and then apply traditional wax. I used about 1/3 of the small bottle for each of the 2 applications on my coupe using the instructions provided. As long as I have the 1/3 left maybe I will try one more application of the CG using the water spray bottle technique. Not sure why I am seeing such poor durability when other posts seem to be pleased with this stuff.

 

Geobau,

Okay, I'll break it down for ya-

This supposed "hard shell" protection you speak of..... exactly how "hard" is it and what will it "protect" against? If I were to drop a golf ball on the hood of two identicle cars (one with wax and one with CG) from a height of 30 feet, would there be less damage on the CG car? Would it even be dented at all? LOL, you're a funny guy....... will your little molecules do anything to protect your paint? Of course not. So stop BSing everyone with the "hard shell" crap.

And as for regular wax melting off the car.... when is the last time you walked by ANY car in a parking lot and saw the wax on the paint dripping off onto the hot pavement? Get real, bud. The layer of wax is so thin that it couldn't possibly melt off the car.

Did I already say that you're a funny guy?

If you want to buy into all this CG molecular bonding BS, then fine. I'll stick to a $3 bottle of wax.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by RamboRami on 07/20/03 10:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Ok, first of all, no need for namecalling, which is why i editted your post. Second of all, do not doubt CG because you obviously have NOT tried it.
I am weary about the protection of CG, like you. I dont think it is BS, but i would like to somehow do a long-term test, or if someone has a weather accelerating machine so that we can test this in a matter of minutes!


<font color=green>-Rambo</font color=green>
G35c 6MT DG/Willow/Grounding Kit

 

Thanks, Rambo...

Science 101:
Take your fingernail and scratch a piece of a flourite. Your fingernail won't scratch it, no matter how sharp it is, and no matter how hard you try. That is because the flourite is harder than your fingernail. Now... take an old, dull piece of glass and do the same. Glass IS harder than flourite, hence the scratch. Your fingernail has a "hardness" of about 2.5, flourite is about 4, and a glass is about 5.5.
Because one compound or mineral is harder than wax does not mean it creates an invisible shield of invincibility around it that will protect it from the fall of a golf ball, but rather that it will hold up to contact from a "harder" material. Crystal Guard is much 'harder' than any traditional waxes out there. Does that settle with you better?
Sorry you misunderstood me the first time. I don't expect anything to stand up to a golf ball dropped from 30 ft, however I do believe, after years of study in chemistry, that some materials are innately 'harder' than others. CG is harder than wax, hence it will not receive a scratch if you pull a stick across it, where as wax will slowly peel under the pressure of even a soft wood. Calcite (a mineral common in many of those little rocks that give you chips in your paint) will scratch wax, but not CG. Understood?
As for the melting issue-- you said it yourself; wax is an incredibly thin coating. That's why you don't see it melting down the side of a car- it's that thin. Microscopically so. Wax has a much lower melting point that CG, hence its evaporation. Don't think that one requires much explanation...
If I poured alcohol and water in two separate dishes, would you expect them to evaporate at the same rate? Any even moderately educated individual would say, of course not. The magic of chemistry. Some materials, though they appear the same, actually have different properties.
As a side note, I'm not sure if I could ever be called any name worse than "ignorant", but many thanks Rambo [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]
G


2003.5 Black w/ Willow
Premium / Sport / Aero / Winter / Navi / Tint
Indianapolis, IN

 

Quick corollary to my last post--
MOHS Hardness Intro
CG has a MOHS hardness of 6, your typical wax is a 2. That's a whole lot of stuff you'll be protected against with CG versus a wax...
G

2003.5 Black w/ Willow
Premium / Sport / Aero / Winter / Navi / Tint
Indianapolis, IN

 

thanks for the explanations dude... gonna go coat my car with DIAMOND! YEAAAAAAH! Gonna have the first truly real Diamond Graphite G35!!!! WOOHOOO [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img] nothing will be able to scratch it!

<font color=green>-Rambo</font color=green>
G35c 6MT DG/Willow/Grounding Kit

 

Okay GeoBau, lets take this debate another step:

Suppose you are 100% correct, and CG is molecularly "harder" than ordinary wax.(By the way, I have seen ZERO proof of that. I'm only going on your word. I'll just assume you've done some scientific studies in a lab somewhere) Now, in the real world, what exactly could I expect this "harder" shell of protection to do for me?

Probably nothing, right? I'm driving down the highway behind a flatbed truck, when he suddenly hits a bump and several small pebbles bounce off the truck and shower the front of my car. Will the CG protection prevent chips/scratches any better than if it weren't there in the first place? I don't think so....

Exactly how thick is an application of CG? Can it even be measured? Even if you had 100 coats of CG, I still don't see it offering any protection against the daily hazards of debris on the highways.

Face it, CG is nothing more than a glorified shine enhancer. If you really expect it to act like some kind of tank armor, you're more than fooling yourself. Keep the chemistry in the labs- I'd rather deal with real-world situations.

 

Hmmm.... RamboRami helps run this forum......Crystal Guard is a sponsor of this forum....therefore, RamboRami endorses Crystal Guard products.

I get it now.

 

Larryib-
Did you Dawn your car before applying the CG? It will only last as long as its weakest coat underneath it, which could be the remains of an old wax job or even simonizing from a car wash. Try to strip everything off it before you apply it- that will max our your effectiveness. I just drove my Envoy (CG'ed it a month ago) out in the rain, and after nearly two solid weeks of thunderstorms, it's still slick and shiny as new. Hope this helps...
G

2003.5 Black w/ Willow
Premium / Sport / Aero / Winter / Navi / Tint
Indianapolis, IN

 

Hitman, i dont run this forum, i am just a moderator, infact, i JUST became a moderator last week. I am in no way, shape, or form connected with CG or any of the companies that sell it. I pay just as much as you do for a bottle of CG

<font color=green>-Rambo</font color=green>
G35c 6MT DG/Willow/Grounding Kit

 

Okay, I'm starting to tire of banging my head against the wall here with this....

Answer this:

Exactly how thick is an application (on averge) of CG? Does the "thickness" of this molecular protection make a difference?

Another real world example-

Your car is protected with CG. My car is just waxed with regular old wax.

A pebble is lightly tossed onto the hoods of both cars. Would mine be damged more than yours? Is it possible that neither hood would show any damage at all?

Now, that same pebble is shot at the hoods of both cars at approx 60 mph. Now what's your assessment? Does your CG give you less damage? No damage at all? After all, the CG molecular structure is harder than the minerals in this theoretical pebble, no?

With all your chemo-babble, you never once mention the fact that the rate of speed of a piece of debris can/will affect the outcome of your "protection" theory.

I can't believe I'm even arguing something as silly as this.....

 

Oh, by the way, if you really believe that every company follows the "truth in advertising" rules, then I can fully understand the reason that you buy into their claims 100%

In the real world, companies DO falsely advertise. I thought someone like you would realize that.

 

And for the record--- In all my years of driving, I have never once had a scratch on my paint from bird crap. Never.

And that's even on cars that I hardly ever even waxed.

I'd hate to see the kinds of birds flying around your town if they're scratching your paint with their feces.

I'd be much more concerned about the acid in the feces than tiny pebbles.

 

Wow, just got back from reading the CG website. Here is a paragraph on the durability of CG:

We use the Mohs Hardness Scale to compare the hardness of any mineral. The higher the number on the scale, the harder the mineral is. Each mineral can scratch only those on the same level or below it on the scale. CrystalGuard is approximately a six (6), which is an absolute hardness of approximately 72.

Interestingly, they also show a graph that includes the absolute hardness of an iron nail at 21. So are they saying that I could not scratch a CG protected paint job with an iron nail? Seems to me that's exactly what they're saying. After all, "Each mineral can scratch only those on the same level or below it on the scale"

 

*deep breath*
You're right. False advertising. Everyone the US does it, right? I mean, it's not like anyone's going to file a lawsuit against a big company in the US. Oh no, not here of all places. Stop banging your head against the wall; it seems to have affected damage.
For the sake of argument, consider the thickness as thick as your typical wax. But THEN consider the fact that it has tighter and more plentiful molecular bonds, a higher melting point, and a higher MOHS rating. This would typically be the end of any doubt for most individuals. Contemplate that.
Your "pebble at 60mph" scenario... I'm assuming this pebble fell off of a truck in front of you, and didn't just jump up from the road? If this is the case, go read a chapter on inertial physics and come back and ask the question if you still think it's even remotely realistic. Hint: the pebble isn't really traveling at 60mph relative to your car. You figure out the rest.

Bird crap. I'm glad you've never had to deal with it, but it will actually scratch your car if you attempt to wipe it off without lifting it or without proper paint protection. I'm not sure if you're happy with tiny scratches, swirl marks, and "spider webs", but perhaps you've never seen them, and perhaps you've never wiped off bird crap. You can't possibly deny the fact that birds keep rocks in the gullet and expel them with their feces... so then how can you deny their crap contains rocks? Rocks scratch, right? So, logically we could say that bird crap contains rocks, rocks scratch, thus... big conclusion here... bird crap can scratch. Tada! Don't make me go Socratic on you...

Here's a quick test for you to do at home (hooray for science). Take a candle, light it, and drip some wax onto a piece of paper. Now, take some solid, clear nail polish and put it next to it. Wait about ten minutes, and pull a nail across both surfaces with a moderate (read: Not INSANE) amount of pressure. The wax pulls up easily, the nail polish does not. Now, the paper was better protected from the nail, but the nail could still punch through it in both cases. Odd. But wait, the paper was still better protected from the nail when a moderate force was placed on it... could it be that the wax didn't protect as well, and it took about twice as much force to scratch the polish compound?
If someone had accidentally dragged their watch along your car, that would've been the case. If you had accidentally hit it with your keys, that would have been the case. If you had pulled an, unbeknownst to you, calcite-laden microfibre cloth across your car, that would've been the case. If some idiot had leaned against your car with their belt-buckle, that would've been the case. If a car wash or chamois had a little rock in it, that would've been the case. Need I go on?
If you're looking for a super-amazing-never-fails-ever-not-even-if-a-4x4-goes-through-the-hood-at-800mph wax, you're not going to find it. Even bullet-proof glass will fail if the bullet is going fast enough, but we're talking about a product created to withstand certain pressures from certain materials with certain tolerances, and it absolutely does it much better than wax-- THAT is my point.
I'm done with talking about this... I'm sure enough people out there reading this are educated enough to make their own decisions when presented with facts on a certain subject. My facts point to a conclusion that yes, CG is harder than a wax-based protectant, and yes, CG will protect against a larger scale of dings and scratches when placed on a surface.
If you would like to continue posting, feel free, however I have done the most I can do; referenced the laws of physics, chemistry, geology, and even the laws of the United States. Whoever wishes may interpret the facts accordingly and arrive at their own conclusions.
G
PS. You argue vociferously that CG is practicing false advertising. One might even consider that libel if they were paying attention... go sue Crystal Guard and tell me the verdict, then, and only then, will I acquiesce to that argument-- I will even refund your legal fees.


2003.5 Black w/ Willow
Premium / Sport / Aero / Winter / Navi / Tint
Indianapolis, IN