Launching in a 5AT
Originally Posted by baileyrx
our cars computer decreases throttle by 30% when the brake is depressed. Its a safty feature.
To get full power you'll need a brake bypass switch! They're available from a couple of members on this site or my350z.com
To get full power you'll need a brake bypass switch! They're available from a couple of members on this site or my350z.com
Originally Posted by DaveB
I've done all the brake mods (yanking fuses, disconnecting the yaw sensor, etc) that do the same thing as the brake bypass switch. There's absolutely no differences in the way the car launches. It still feels like something is holding it back until 3000-3500rpms comes around.
Exactly what does it feel like? I brake torque @ aro 1800-2200 rpm, let off the brake and mash the gas. Falls flat on it's face until about 3k or so. Then takes off.
I'm tempted to try to up the brake torque to 2500-3000 rpm if the car won't move.
Or do you mash the gas then let off the brake?
I'm tempted to try to up the brake torque to 2500-3000 rpm if the car won't move.
Or do you mash the gas then let off the brake?
Originally Posted by DaveB
I've done all the brake mods (yanking fuses, disconnecting the yaw sensor, etc) that do the same thing as the brake bypass switch. There's absolutely no differences in the way the car launches. It still feels like something is holding it back until 3000-3500rpms comes around.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Exactly what does it feel like? I brake torque @ aro 1800-2200 rpm, let off the brake and mash the gas. Falls flat on it's face until about 3k or so. Then takes off.
I'm tempted to try to up the brake torque to 2500-3000 rpm if the car won't move.
Or do you mash the gas then let off the brake?
I'm tempted to try to up the brake torque to 2500-3000 rpm if the car won't move.
Or do you mash the gas then let off the brake?
It feels like exactly what you described...pathetic and anemic...there is no initial thrust in the autos b/c of engine torque management and Infiniti pulling out one of the two ********* belwo 3300 or so rpms...
What DaveB was saying is what I have said since May of 2003...no matter what you do in a G35 for mods to the engine and/or disable switches, etc...they have no sack under that RPM curve...if someone can figure that one out for us...Hello 13s in the 1/4 mi all day long for a lot of us.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I'm tempted to try to up the brake torque to 2500-3000 rpm if the car won't move.
Originally Posted by trey.hutcheson
I'm not sure that's going to do any good. I believe the stall for the converter is only at like 1800/1900 rpms. But I've seen claims otherwise as well.
For now...until someone figures this out...and I frankly can't understand how AAM or Technosquare can't do this...you need to just step on the brake...apply enough gas so that the driveline slack is taken up (Which can be felt) and then hit the gas and release the brake at just about the same time which sucks...but sucks less than if you step on the brake hard and the gas hard and load up the motor and really bog it down.
Thanks Boss hehe.
Has anyone asked Technosquare about this defeat? I notice haltech has elminated theirs on the vette.
For that matter, has anyone asked them for an Auto TCM tweak?
Hey I see you got a tuned ecu. Can't they put back all the timing retard that the ecu is pulling? This is one question that's been eating at me. If "feels" like there could be 15-20hp pulled out of power. It's alot less pronounced on the 05+ autos. And might be alot worse for us early 03 guys (aka Type 1)
I don't "think" it's in the TCM programming.
Has anyone asked Technosquare about this defeat? I notice haltech has elminated theirs on the vette.
For that matter, has anyone asked them for an Auto TCM tweak?
Hey I see you got a tuned ecu. Can't they put back all the timing retard that the ecu is pulling? This is one question that's been eating at me. If "feels" like there could be 15-20hp pulled out of power. It's alot less pronounced on the 05+ autos. And might be alot worse for us early 03 guys (aka Type 1)
I don't "think" it's in the TCM programming.
Originally Posted by bosssho
Jeff,
It feels like exactly what you described...pathetic and anemic...there is no initial thrust in the autos b/c of engine torque management and Infiniti pulling out one of the two ********* belwo 3300 or so rpms...
What DaveB was saying is what I have said since May of 2003...no matter what you do in a G35 for mods to the engine and/or disable switches, etc...they have no sack under that RPM curve...if someone can figure that one out for us...Hello 13s in the 1/4 mi all day long for a lot of us.
It feels like exactly what you described...pathetic and anemic...there is no initial thrust in the autos b/c of engine torque management and Infiniti pulling out one of the two ********* belwo 3300 or so rpms...
What DaveB was saying is what I have said since May of 2003...no matter what you do in a G35 for mods to the engine and/or disable switches, etc...they have no sack under that RPM curve...if someone can figure that one out for us...Hello 13s in the 1/4 mi all day long for a lot of us.
Last edited by Jeff92se; Aug 15, 2006 at 05:02 PM.
Here is some info on Torque Management on the new mustangs. Superchips was able to defeat it fairly quickly. It 'sounds' like a "feature" that can be turned "on" "off". I hope!
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1.../features.html
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1.../features.html
THE SECRET YOU MUST KNOW
A big concern with the introduction of the new Mustang was that sophisticated electronic engine management might essentially lock out the performance aftermarket, and according to Superchips Custom Tuning President Chris Johnson, that may be true for tuners who are late to the game. "Anybody who hasn't already been working on this will be two years behind the curve," he says.
Unlike previous generations of the Ford electronic engine management systems, the EEC-ECU in the '05 Mustang, which is very similar to the technology introduced in the '04 F-150 trucks, uses torque management to sense potential "abuse" to the engine and drivetrain-like burnouts and power shifts that are flagged when the computer detects engine rpm that doesn't match driveshaft or wheel speed. This is accomplished with an electronic throttle that removes all physical linkage between your foot on the gas pedal and the engine's throttle blade. You can step on the gas as hard as you want, but if the ECU senses that the engine is turning too fast for a given wheel speed, or vice versa, it switches into a shutdown mode and it's game over. We saw this firsthand after PHP installed roll control on the front brakes. The Mustang would just get started into smoky wheelspin before throttling back the engine. You might be able to do dry hops or squeal away from a stoplight in a stock '05, but Ford's official position is "No Burnouts Allowed." At least until Johnson got to work on his laptop. Within minutes he found the code that enabled the torque-management strategy and switched it off, allowing tire-melting burnouts. The electronic throttle control also pulls the throttle back partially when the engine is shifted at WOT to protect the drivetrain from shock, with the side-effect of preventing power shifting.
The three-valve engine's variable camshaft timing also presents challenges as well as opportunities to tuners, but by the time you read this, Superchips Custom Tuning will have off-the-shelf programs ready for the '05 Mustang that will allow users to reset rev limits, turn off traction control and speed limiters, bump fuel and timing curves, and compensate for speedometer error, just like it offers for current-gen Mustangs. HRM
A big concern with the introduction of the new Mustang was that sophisticated electronic engine management might essentially lock out the performance aftermarket, and according to Superchips Custom Tuning President Chris Johnson, that may be true for tuners who are late to the game. "Anybody who hasn't already been working on this will be two years behind the curve," he says.
Unlike previous generations of the Ford electronic engine management systems, the EEC-ECU in the '05 Mustang, which is very similar to the technology introduced in the '04 F-150 trucks, uses torque management to sense potential "abuse" to the engine and drivetrain-like burnouts and power shifts that are flagged when the computer detects engine rpm that doesn't match driveshaft or wheel speed. This is accomplished with an electronic throttle that removes all physical linkage between your foot on the gas pedal and the engine's throttle blade. You can step on the gas as hard as you want, but if the ECU senses that the engine is turning too fast for a given wheel speed, or vice versa, it switches into a shutdown mode and it's game over. We saw this firsthand after PHP installed roll control on the front brakes. The Mustang would just get started into smoky wheelspin before throttling back the engine. You might be able to do dry hops or squeal away from a stoplight in a stock '05, but Ford's official position is "No Burnouts Allowed." At least until Johnson got to work on his laptop. Within minutes he found the code that enabled the torque-management strategy and switched it off, allowing tire-melting burnouts. The electronic throttle control also pulls the throttle back partially when the engine is shifted at WOT to protect the drivetrain from shock, with the side-effect of preventing power shifting.
The three-valve engine's variable camshaft timing also presents challenges as well as opportunities to tuners, but by the time you read this, Superchips Custom Tuning will have off-the-shelf programs ready for the '05 Mustang that will allow users to reset rev limits, turn off traction control and speed limiters, bump fuel and timing curves, and compensate for speedometer error, just like it offers for current-gen Mustangs. HRM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Thanks Boss hehe. Hey I see you got a tuned ecu. Can't they put back all the timing retard that the ecu is pulling? This is one question that's been eating at me. If "feels" like there could be 15-20hp pulled out of power. It's alot less pronounced on the 05+ autos. And might be alot worse for us early 03 guys (aka Type 1)
I don't "think" it's in the TCM programming.
I don't "think" it's in the TCM programming.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Here is some info on Torque Management on the new mustangs. Superchips was able to defeat it fairly quickly. It 'sounds' like a "feature" that can be turned "on" "off". I hope!
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1.../features.html
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1.../features.html
On our 06 Trailblazer SS I got it tuned by a company in Chicago called Vector Motorsports and they cracked the TCM too...now the TBSS just launches off the line like an animal and throws you in the back seat for the 1-2 shift and keeps pulling...mid 13s in the 1/4...13.95 bone stock. What kills me is our Gs could be right there...
My G called...it wants its' ***** back
My 03 seems to have no trouble pulling mid to high 2.1 60 foots, but damn, the launches still feel slow as hell. Another thing that works against the G is it's 8" longer wheelbase. 5AT Z's have no problems ripping 1.9-2.0 60 foots and I think a lot of their launch comes from the shorter wheel base. IMO, the longer wheel base in the G plants the tires too hard and creates a bog. Next time I go to the track, I'm going to tire up the rear tires to thier max psi and try to induce wheel spin to help the car come off the line with a little spin and get over that sub 3000rpm hump. When I launch my G in colder weather, the wheels spin quite a bit and it sure feels quicker coming off the line compared to that annoying initial bog I get on a sticky track.
Jeff, try launching with a very quick stall. Foot hard on the brake, go WOT, release the brake. The second you see the rpms jump up, release the brake. This has always netted me the best 60 foots. I have a feeling those coupe 19s are killing your car off the line though.
My 03 seems to have no trouble pulling mid to high 2.1 60 foots, but damn, the launches still feel slow as hell. Another thing that works against the G is it's 8" longer wheelbase. 5AT Z's have no problems ripping 1.9-2.0 60 foots and I think a lot of their launch comes from the shorter wheel base. IMO, the longer wheel base in the G plants the tires too hard and creates a bog. Next time I go to the track, I'm going to tire up the rear tires to thier max psi and try to induce wheel spin to help the car come off the line with a little spin and get over that sub 3000rpm hump. When I launch my G in colder weather, the wheels spin quite a bit and it sure feels quicker coming off the line compared to that annoying initial bog I get on a sticky track.
Jeff, try launching with a very quick stall. Foot hard on the brake, go WOT, release the brake. The second you see the rpms jump up, release the brake. This has always netted me the best 60 foots. I have a feeling those coupe 19s are killing your car off the line though.
Last edited by DaveB; Aug 16, 2006 at 12:48 AM.
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Chandler, AZ
You know whats interesting is that the VQ is used in a lot of different Nissans, my wifes Pathfinder has the same motor. I would swear to you
that when I drive her Pathfinder, that it would definately beat my G
off the line. It has much better low end torque off the line.
I can just punch it and roast the tires. It has some ***** off the line.
I definately believe that it is tuned for more low end torque.
Someone with the expertise should look into what is different between
the Pathfinder version of the motor and the G version.
Is it different tuning, different ecu, etc...
that when I drive her Pathfinder, that it would definately beat my G
off the line. It has much better low end torque off the line.
I can just punch it and roast the tires. It has some ***** off the line.
I definately believe that it is tuned for more low end torque.
Someone with the expertise should look into what is different between
the Pathfinder version of the motor and the G version.
Is it different tuning, different ecu, etc...