Turning off/disabling VDC (For real.)
#31
05-10-2008, 04:15 PM
I think the earlier years had partial VDC disable and the newer cars have full VDC disable. My 05 and 06 coupes definitely did NOT intervene if the VDC was off. I caught many a *scary* slide as well as had 6500rpm burn outs on slightly damp roads simply by turning off the VDC using the button.
My 05 coupe (never tried it in the 06) DID re-enable the VDC if I was on the brakes at all. That is, I could drift/donut/burnout all I wanted but if I so much as TOUCHED the brake pedal, the VDC would come in and stabilize the car. If I let off the brake, it would go back to being in "off" state. This made it impossible to do brake-stand burn-outs using just the VDC off button.
My g37 behaves the same way -- I don't know about the brake-triggered temporary override as I have not tried it, but otherwise it behaves just like my 06 coupe.
I've heard enough people with 03/04 models say that their VDC stays on when "off" that I know suspect Infiniti changed this between model years.
My 05 coupe (never tried it in the 06) DID re-enable the VDC if I was on the brakes at all. That is, I could drift/donut/burnout all I wanted but if I so much as TOUCHED the brake pedal, the VDC would come in and stabilize the car. If I let off the brake, it would go back to being in "off" state. This made it impossible to do brake-stand burn-outs using just the VDC off button.
My g37 behaves the same way -- I don't know about the brake-triggered temporary override as I have not tried it, but otherwise it behaves just like my 06 coupe.
I've heard enough people with 03/04 models say that their VDC stays on when "off" that I know suspect Infiniti changed this between model years.
#32
05-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by mal_TX
I think the earlier years had partial VDC disable and the newer cars have full VDC disable. My 05 and 06 coupes definitely did NOT intervene if the VDC was off. I caught many a *scary* slide as well as had 6500rpm burn outs on slightly damp roads simply by turning off the VDC using the button.
My 05 coupe (never tried it in the 06) DID re-enable the VDC if I was on the brakes at all. That is, I could drift/donut/burnout all I wanted but if I so much as TOUCHED the brake pedal, the VDC would come in and stabilize the car. If I let off the brake, it would go back to being in "off" state. This made it impossible to do brake-stand burn-outs using just the VDC off button.
My g37 behaves the same way -- I don't know about the brake-triggered temporary override as I have not tried it, but otherwise it behaves just like my 06 coupe.
I've heard enough people with 03/04 models say that their VDC stays on when "off" that I know suspect Infiniti changed this between model years.
My 05 coupe (never tried it in the 06) DID re-enable the VDC if I was on the brakes at all. That is, I could drift/donut/burnout all I wanted but if I so much as TOUCHED the brake pedal, the VDC would come in and stabilize the car. If I let off the brake, it would go back to being in "off" state. This made it impossible to do brake-stand burn-outs using just the VDC off button.
My g37 behaves the same way -- I don't know about the brake-triggered temporary override as I have not tried it, but otherwise it behaves just like my 06 coupe.
I've heard enough people with 03/04 models say that their VDC stays on when "off" that I know suspect Infiniti changed this between model years.
#33
05-10-2008, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by mal_TX
My 05 coupe (never tried it in the 06) DID re-enable the VDC if I was on the brakes at all. That is, I could drift/donut/burnout all I wanted but if I so much as TOUCHED the brake pedal, the VDC would come in and stabilize the car. If I let off the brake, it would go back to being in "off" state. This made it impossible to do brake-stand burn-outs using just the VDC off button.
#34
05-10-2008, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by mal_TX
I've heard enough people with 03/04 models say that their VDC stays on when "off" that I know suspect Infiniti changed this between model years.
#35
05-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by DaveB
My VDC never kicks on if I have it turned off. The traction control will kick in only if I'm wet/icy/snow-covered pavement and the rear tires are moving much faster than the fronts and the car is hardly moving forward On drier surfaces and on my 17s, I can spin the tires through much of 1st with no intervention from either system as long as the car is going forward at a decent pace.
This is the difference I'm referring to...
#38
05-11-2008, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Sagemark
I can't imagine your car is any different, but not knowing your driving habits it is possible you are either not making it kick in or you aren't noticing it's operation. It's got to be one or the other, because it IS there! If you push your car hard enough around a corner to slide, whether over steer or understeer, VDC kicks in even with the VDC button off. When it kicks in the SLIP light flashes briefly. When that happens, the it trims the slide by individually controlling the brakes and cutting back on throttle.
If you aren't noticing, that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't still there. It could mean you aren't cornering hard enough to slide, so it doesn't kick in. It could also be that that when you corner hard enough to slide you are intently focusing on the road and don't observe the flashing slip light, AND that you fail to notice the corrective action the car is taking on your behalf, leaving you amazed by your ability to corner at high speeds without sliding or spinning out.
The system is pretty subtle in operation, and it is amazingly effective at keeping the car in a line on a corner at high speed.
If your car has not had the system disabled as described here, it MUST be there and doing it's job when required unless it is faulty which is highly unlikely.
Turning VDC off with the VDC button does allow greater amounts of wheelspin and changes the parameters of the system's operation, but it most certainly does not turn it off completely.
If you don't believe me just go out in a big parking lot and turn hard enough at a sufficient speed to cause the car to slide. Have a passenger watch the dash and they'll see the SLIP light come on. If you brake into a corner and turn in suddenly, a bit too hard, you'll understeer. If you pay close attention you'll feel the outside front wheel stab the brakes a couple times briefly and halt the understeer. It doesn't take it long, and you keep moving pretty fast, just slowed down enough to stop the slide. If you turn in hard with an open throttle, breaking loose the rear end, you'll feel the rear brakes apply and the rear quickly comes back in line. It's impossible to do a power slide and smoothly, gradually bring the rear back in line without completely disabling the VDC, instead it kind of stops the slide hard, and jerks back in, effective but ungraceful. That's the best I can describe how I've experienced things with my 2004 sedan, and the 2003 Coupe I used to have.
I'll be interested to hear what you find but I'm dead certain I know what I'm talking about on this, wholly from personal experience. I've got a couple of favorite 270 degree off ramps I drive every day that are 50mph low 3rd gear corners (just above 2nd gear redline speeds). I push the limit through them regularly. Through the familiarity that comes from this repetitive practice I've gotten used to exactly what the car has been doing in the situation.
I expect that because of your autocross experience and the fact you don't realize the VDC is still there you will find what I'm writing unlikely, but if you go do as I'm saying I'm sure you'll find I'm right.
I'm sure we could get a fair number of folks chiming in here, some agreeing with you and some confirming what I'm saying. I'll stand by what what I've said here as indisputably true though. To prove it isn't so for your car, take a video of your dashboard AND view out the windscreen as you slide your car through a corner. I guarantee you can't make a video that shows you sliding, with the VDC OFF light illuminated and no flashing SLIP light.
Sagemark
If you aren't noticing, that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't still there. It could mean you aren't cornering hard enough to slide, so it doesn't kick in. It could also be that that when you corner hard enough to slide you are intently focusing on the road and don't observe the flashing slip light, AND that you fail to notice the corrective action the car is taking on your behalf, leaving you amazed by your ability to corner at high speeds without sliding or spinning out.
The system is pretty subtle in operation, and it is amazingly effective at keeping the car in a line on a corner at high speed.
If your car has not had the system disabled as described here, it MUST be there and doing it's job when required unless it is faulty which is highly unlikely.
Turning VDC off with the VDC button does allow greater amounts of wheelspin and changes the parameters of the system's operation, but it most certainly does not turn it off completely.
If you don't believe me just go out in a big parking lot and turn hard enough at a sufficient speed to cause the car to slide. Have a passenger watch the dash and they'll see the SLIP light come on. If you brake into a corner and turn in suddenly, a bit too hard, you'll understeer. If you pay close attention you'll feel the outside front wheel stab the brakes a couple times briefly and halt the understeer. It doesn't take it long, and you keep moving pretty fast, just slowed down enough to stop the slide. If you turn in hard with an open throttle, breaking loose the rear end, you'll feel the rear brakes apply and the rear quickly comes back in line. It's impossible to do a power slide and smoothly, gradually bring the rear back in line without completely disabling the VDC, instead it kind of stops the slide hard, and jerks back in, effective but ungraceful. That's the best I can describe how I've experienced things with my 2004 sedan, and the 2003 Coupe I used to have.
I'll be interested to hear what you find but I'm dead certain I know what I'm talking about on this, wholly from personal experience. I've got a couple of favorite 270 degree off ramps I drive every day that are 50mph low 3rd gear corners (just above 2nd gear redline speeds). I push the limit through them regularly. Through the familiarity that comes from this repetitive practice I've gotten used to exactly what the car has been doing in the situation.
I expect that because of your autocross experience and the fact you don't realize the VDC is still there you will find what I'm writing unlikely, but if you go do as I'm saying I'm sure you'll find I'm right.
I'm sure we could get a fair number of folks chiming in here, some agreeing with you and some confirming what I'm saying. I'll stand by what what I've said here as indisputably true though. To prove it isn't so for your car, take a video of your dashboard AND view out the windscreen as you slide your car through a corner. I guarantee you can't make a video that shows you sliding, with the VDC OFF light illuminated and no flashing SLIP light.
Sagemark
You car is fvcked up.
-Sean
#39
05-11-2008, 10:49 AM
#40
05-11-2008, 12:40 PM
#41
05-11-2008, 01:05 PM
I just knew this was going to end up with a debate between the folks who swear it ain't so and the folks who swear it is. Now all we need is someone to start posting about how we shouldn't be turning it off coz it's dangerous and the thread will have truly and completely devolved from its purpose. .
Maybe there a model year difference, or some other explanation.
I went out this morning in the rain, re-enabled the system, hit the VDC OFF button and went out stomping through some corners. I did one tail out corner under power without the SLIP light flashing or VDC intervening, then did another and it did.
It is clear that for at least some of our cars, the VDC off button does not fully disengage the nanny.
I posted this thread for those of us for whom this is the case and who would like to have this information on how to fully disable the system if so desired.
For those who do not have this particular challenge, this thread was not intended for you, but it has ended up making you wonder why your car doesn't behave the same way. Maybe we'll even identify some factual data on which cars do/don't act in this way, model year etcetera but that was not my original intent.
It's is possible that some who don't have this happen just don't notice or don't push it into engaging but I'm not saying that IS the case for all or even necessarily some. By no means do I suggest that those who aren't experiencing this problem are all idiots and sissy drivers.
Canadian's video autocrossing clearly shows he pushes his with it off, but it doesn't prove the system didn't try to intervene, or that it might not try under different circumstances. It's easy to prove when it does intervene because when it does, its a fact. All it takes is one positive example. It's harder to prove that it doesn't intervene, because that requires repeated testing under different conditions to simply prove that those tests didn't cause intervention, not that the system is truly off.
Based on the fact that VDC does intervene on some cars when off, and from the conviction of drivers who's cars have not, it seems likely that there is a difference between how different cars are set up to operate with VDC off, but so far there is no irrefutable evidence that this is the case. (or maybe they're just all sissy drivers and idiots... hee hee
) Maybe someone with dealer knowledge could share?
Maybe there a model year difference, or some other explanation.
I went out this morning in the rain, re-enabled the system, hit the VDC OFF button and went out stomping through some corners. I did one tail out corner under power without the SLIP light flashing or VDC intervening, then did another and it did.
It is clear that for at least some of our cars, the VDC off button does not fully disengage the nanny.
I posted this thread for those of us for whom this is the case and who would like to have this information on how to fully disable the system if so desired.
For those who do not have this particular challenge, this thread was not intended for you, but it has ended up making you wonder why your car doesn't behave the same way. Maybe we'll even identify some factual data on which cars do/don't act in this way, model year etcetera but that was not my original intent.
It's is possible that some who don't have this happen just don't notice or don't push it into engaging but I'm not saying that IS the case for all or even necessarily some. By no means do I suggest that those who aren't experiencing this problem are all idiots and sissy drivers.
Canadian's video autocrossing clearly shows he pushes his with it off, but it doesn't prove the system didn't try to intervene, or that it might not try under different circumstances. It's easy to prove when it does intervene because when it does, its a fact. All it takes is one positive example. It's harder to prove that it doesn't intervene, because that requires repeated testing under different conditions to simply prove that those tests didn't cause intervention, not that the system is truly off.
Based on the fact that VDC does intervene on some cars when off, and from the conviction of drivers who's cars have not, it seems likely that there is a difference between how different cars are set up to operate with VDC off, but so far there is no irrefutable evidence that this is the case. (or maybe they're just all sissy drivers and idiots... hee hee
) Maybe someone with dealer knowledge could share?
#42
05-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Sagemark
I just knew this was going to end up with a debate between the folks who swear it ain't so and the folks who swear it is. Now all we need is someone to start posting about how we shouldn't be turning it off coz it's dangerous and the thread will have truly and completely devolved from its purpose. .
Maybe there a model year difference, or some other explanation.
I went out this morning in the rain, re-enabled the system, hit the VDC OFF button and went out stomping through some corners. I did one tail out corner under power without the SLIP light flashing or VDC intervening, then did another and it did.
It is clear that for at least some of our cars, the VDC off button does not fully disengage the nanny.
I posted this thread for those of us for whom this is the case and who would like to have this information on how to fully disable the system if so desired.
For those who do not have this particular challenge, this thread was not intended for you, but it has ended up making you wonder why your car doesn't behave the same way. Maybe we'll even identify some factual data on which cars do/don't act in this way, model year etcetera but that was not my original intent.
It's is possible that some who don't have this happen just don't notice or don't push it into engaging but I'm not saying that IS the case for all or even necessarily some. By no means do I suggest that those who aren't experiencing this problem are all idiots and sissy drivers.
Canadian's video autocrossing clearly shows he pushes his with it off, but it doesn't prove the system didn't try to intervene, or that it might not try under different circumstances. It's easy to prove when it does intervene because when it does, its a fact. All it takes is one positive example. It's harder to prove that it doesn't intervene, because that requires repeated testing under different conditions to simply prove that those tests didn't cause intervention, not that the system is truly off.
Based on the fact that VDC does intervene on some cars when off, and from the conviction of drivers who's cars have not, it seems likely that there is a difference between how different cars are set up to operate with VDC off, but so far there is no irrefutable evidence that this is the case. (or maybe they're just all sissy drivers and idiots... hee hee ) Maybe someone with dealer knowledge could share?
Maybe there a model year difference, or some other explanation.
I went out this morning in the rain, re-enabled the system, hit the VDC OFF button and went out stomping through some corners. I did one tail out corner under power without the SLIP light flashing or VDC intervening, then did another and it did.
It is clear that for at least some of our cars, the VDC off button does not fully disengage the nanny.
I posted this thread for those of us for whom this is the case and who would like to have this information on how to fully disable the system if so desired.
For those who do not have this particular challenge, this thread was not intended for you, but it has ended up making you wonder why your car doesn't behave the same way. Maybe we'll even identify some factual data on which cars do/don't act in this way, model year etcetera but that was not my original intent.
It's is possible that some who don't have this happen just don't notice or don't push it into engaging but I'm not saying that IS the case for all or even necessarily some. By no means do I suggest that those who aren't experiencing this problem are all idiots and sissy drivers.
Canadian's video autocrossing clearly shows he pushes his with it off, but it doesn't prove the system didn't try to intervene, or that it might not try under different circumstances. It's easy to prove when it does intervene because when it does, its a fact. All it takes is one positive example. It's harder to prove that it doesn't intervene, because that requires repeated testing under different conditions to simply prove that those tests didn't cause intervention, not that the system is truly off.
Based on the fact that VDC does intervene on some cars when off, and from the conviction of drivers who's cars have not, it seems likely that there is a difference between how different cars are set up to operate with VDC off, but so far there is no irrefutable evidence that this is the case. (or maybe they're just all sissy drivers and idiots... hee hee
) Maybe someone with dealer knowledge could share?Just my opinion.
-Sean
#43
05-11-2008, 10:04 PM
Everyone who claims the VDC does not step-in if the driver hits the brake pedal should go try it.
It was extremely obvious when I tried it on my 05 coupe that the VDC was applying BRAKES to my rear wheels, fighting my attempt to spin the tires, because I was applying the brakes. With the switch off and no brakes, I could spin tires all I want.
It was extremely obvious when I tried it on my 05 coupe that the VDC was applying BRAKES to my rear wheels, fighting my attempt to spin the tires, because I was applying the brakes. With the switch off and no brakes, I could spin tires all I want.
#45
05-11-2008, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Nismo G
It might be how you are controling the gas pedal. Even though you think it is the VDC it might just be how you are feathering the throttle. I doubt your VDC would work sometimes and then sometimes it doesn't (when set on the "off" mode). I know when i go out and i turn vdc "off" that it will feel like it is kicking in when in reality its just my foot letting up on the throttle a little bit and the tires gripping the road.
Just my opinion.
-Sean
Just my opinion.
-Sean