I was referring to other 350z/g35's, which all have a 60 degree radius bend in the intake tract after the tb

 

Lawrence did you gain 2mpg or lose 2mpg??? If gain, i'm all for that, i dont even care too much bout the power gains this may give me!!!

 

as far as I know only 1 that used it didn’t report a benefit... a second wasn’t sure... the remainder all reported positively. In fact the only negative comments I’m aware of are form people that have not ever tried one.

It’s not hard to understand this concept is it? Before saying it doesn’t work, try it. If in fact you DO install one and give it a fair trial – who am I to say your opinion is wrong. But you can’t really have a viable opinion of something you have never used. Its like saying you don’t like a certain type of food even though you’ve never tasted it.

 

I give up. If you think your TBS gave you 10hp and it makes you go to bed happy at night, then more power to you. Lets just be clear though, you DO NOT have to own something to know it is a poor design. Do I have to own an ebay intake to know it is a poor design with low quality materials? Of course not. Do I have to own a TBS to know that a <1" chunk of metal with a vortex design is not going to twirl the air going past it? Of course not. I'm an chemical engineer with some background in fluid dynamics, i think i know what I'm talking about.

 

I realize you like to present yourself as an expert (in many threads), and that it makes you happy for ppl to think you're a "know-it-all"... and if that helps you "go to bed happy at night" I'm fine with it... however, I know better.

 

Actually redlude97 doesn't think he knows it all. But he will apply his knowlege where possible.

Mike, I don't think you will be buying a tornado intake before determining it's merit will you?

 

there's a HUGE difference between making a decision based on lots of negative "user" reviews - and making a decision based on interpretation... besides, the tornado by design "can" impede airflow and "potentially" negatively affect... there isn’t anything about the design of this spacer that can negatively affect airflow - whether or not it does anything positive (imo) can only be determined by someone trying it.

IF there were a bunch of people that installed this spacer and reported negative reviews - I wouldn’t even debate it... I would post my opinion and be done with it... but that hasn’t happened. EVERY negative review is from ppl that haven’t used the thing.


How hard is it to grasp this concept?

I hate to bring a political analogy into this – but what sense would it make for someone to say “I cant stand the guy” when asked about Obama – before hearing a word of his ideas or reviewing any of his actions? (this analogy isn’t to imply that endorse or deny him – it’s just a simple reference since ppl haven’t seemed to grasp the concept)

 

Half of the supposed "tests" and "results" were from butt-dynos and psychological positivity. It's like the placebo effect (quite possibly one of the most basic terms out there), once you suggest that a product has benefit, whether or not it actually does, by spending (relatively valuable) money on the item (Cognitive Dissonance - Counter-Attitudinal theory), they will change their cognitions to fit their decision - which is to give the product a positive rating and say that it actually had an effect on engine performance because seeing that their purchased product as useless would hurt both their concept of self (See Post-Decision Dissonance).

However, most reviews of these types of products that do include technical, and measurable, variables tend to show that the products in question have little positive effect, if any, on engine performance.

It's actually quite insulting, and a little devious, that you recommend others spend money on it BEFORE you say ANYTHING about the product.

 

I remember reading some very looong thread somewhere here on 'driver. Lots of comments and reviews and I believe Church's did some dynos that showed definite gains. What ever happened to that thread?

 

I have a spare... anyone local that would like to try it out for a couple weeks feel free to let me know - I'll install and uninstall for you.

I am willing to do this SOLELY to create a basis for this topic... instead of having a bunch of theorists post their (unwarranted) opinion.

Anyone that wants to try it let me know... The reason I say “local” is because I am not going to ship it out, track it down and deal with the trouble of out of state users… its really not that big of a deal to me. Whether or not anyone has this mod or wants this mod is of no issue… but seeing people state a claim of something they have no experience with is.

 

yes. And its the only mod that Shawn has on his coupe - the problem is you have a handfull of ppl that will continue to debate this without ever using it, no matter what logic or facts you present to them.

 

Personally, I haven't seen any correct experimental designs to verify the vortex TSBs. This could be possibly due to the expense of running these tests, and not enough interest in them.

Just to give an example, considering some of you, I assume, are in scientific professions, and this is probably what Church did, as said in the prior post, when he was with the spacer and dyno:

But it really is quite simple, but it will require a dyno, a few hours, a 1 - 2 tanks of gas.

HP Test:
1. Run Baseline without TSB
2. Run with TSB

Consumption:
1. Run Baseline without TSb
2. Run with TSB
Consumption is the more difficult aspect, as it requires several variables to even achieve real world results. However, the simplest test that I can think of is to simply run a full tank (or if you can have an accurate petrol amount estimation (IE: 2.50 gallons of fuel) and run it at a steady rpm (IE: 2,500 RPM), and see how many miles it takes to use up the petrol with and without the TSB.

I'm sure most of you could have come up with this yourselves, and this has always been in the backs of your minds - but assuming there is no deviation in RPMs during the test, it would give a rather definitive, and simple, solution to the debates, and it would furthermore give a solid basis of evidence for these spacers.

 

^^^a bunch of testing has been done - there's a long history... a few ppl in this thread know the history and that’s why its a debate again...

this is my last post in this thread (they always end up the sane regarding tbs) - I will state it once more - if anyone local wants to try out this spacer before they spend the whopping $100, please PM me - I'll let you borrow one for a while and you can make a decision prior to shelling out the money on something that you not sure about.

And just to be clear - I don’t sell these things; I have no benefit from this offer other than helping someone make an informed decision.

I'm unsubscribing to this thread - but hopefully anyone looking for info will understand the contributions I have made to the topic.

 

Exactly why I left my personal opinion out of this discussion and deferred to Hydrazine's opinion of it. Which was negative. I thought his opinion would help clear up alot of the subjective opinions about it?

 

thank you