Reality can be a hard pill to swallow, can’t it?

This forum has provided quite a bit of entertainment for me over the last year or so and I have learned from the more knowledgeable contributors here. And some of the more articulate posters have even motivated me to spend some money on mods for my car.

Does it run a little better? Yeah. Is it a little louder? Yeah. Is it a little faster? Yeah (but it might be just that it’s a little louder.) Has the fun factor increased? Sure!

But a big picture has begun to emerge that initially eluded me as I read individual posts. I’ve studied every dyno chart I can find and the reality seems to be that stock G’s put out about 225 rwhp and fully modded N/A G’s put out about 250 rwhp. (Please forgive me for not noting the few obscure examples I have not been able to find or for ignoring that one car that on one occasion that may have put out 255 rwhp.)

Bottom line - despite all the passionate posts asserting that Stillen is better than Borla or Crawford is better than DC Sports or ten wires are better than seven or black is better than blue - a rank, OEM beginner can hope for a TOTAL gain of ABOUT 25 rwhp. Period.

Ten percent - that’s it!! If one were to believe every manufacturer’s claim on every website, simple addition would cause one to conclude that 100 HP can be simply bolted on. But it ain’t so. It’s not worth losing sight of this overall perspective in either our debates or our outlays. Nissan/Infiniti really has done an excellent job in squeezing nearly every available HP out of this production engine and its remarkable reputation is well earned.

Further, and equally important, the engine internals and its high compression ratio cause it to be fundamentally unsuitable for FI. And, while FI produces impressive HP gains and appears to be more cost effective in the short run, it also produces an inherent instability that will ultimately compromise reliability and longevity. One is really playing at their own risk here. And some costly experiences are only read of between the lines.

I almost wish I hadn’t learned that last one!

 

Very nice summary.

I've gone through 2 VQ's and 3 trannies from FI. I will avoid FI on this car. FI is great, but I've spent too much time in tow trucks and too much time and shops waiting for parts.

Granted I installed FI on my Maxima with 66K miles (problems started around 90K miles), so we probably won't be seeing the breadth of FI problems on G35s until they get a little older.

The way I see it is, if you're going to spend another $8k on FI, you might as well buy s used M5, an S4, or a CTS-V.

My recommendation to anyone looking to increase their fun-factor with the G is to install a good, solid suspension that lowers it about 1" (350z suspension is nice), Z-tube, and a good catback (especially for sedan). You'd be at about $1,500, probably putting 240-245 WHP out, and would have a daily drivable, smoggable, hassle free vehicle. The value added from the plenum, cats, ecu, etc just isn't worth the investment. Not to mention ECU modifications may result in void'd warranty, etc.

I've gone all out on cars before, and I'm done with that. I just want a reliable, quick, fun to drive car.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, Stillen CAB, 04 Z Suspension

 

no offense or anything... but why would u mention exhaust and say cats and plenum arent worht it? I would say that exhaust is probably on my list last of things i want under TS ECU
cats and plenum. I guess u have a sedan so things are differnt but cats and plenum are still larger bottlenecks than your exhaust. I figure that i just want to be able to outrun a stock g35 coupe. thats the only thing i am competing with. If 25 hp will make my car be the "fastest g35" in my community (which it will), and people will also know me as "the kid with the g35 on rims thats SLAMMED", i will be happy haha. I want sways and suspension too because that stuff is whats fun about a car. I have a friend with a stage 3 rousche mustang and a friend running 30pounds of boost to his srt-4, and a friend with a 12 second wrx..... but those cars, although faster, just arent as fun as my g is in my mind. Who has fun stepping on the gas and holding a car in a straight line? I know that my fun is finding winding roads and getting on the gas out in the middle of no where with roads that are all curvy and stuff. I have a few places around here that are AWSOME for this

2004 Black on Black g coupe 6spd.... aluminum pedals, clear corners, z tube, and pop charger. soon to have 19" volk gt-c's and PIAA xtreme whites in the clearance and corners
Houston Texas

 

You're obviously a kid, who cares if other think of you as the fastest around. That's not a good reason to mod a car.

As far as your comment about exhaust, on the sedan it's the king of all kings NA mod.

This is what I've seen:

Countless dyno's of exhaust + ztube or exhaust + intake that yield 244-246 WHP.
Countless dyno's of cats, plenums, intakes, z tubes, exhausts, and TS ECU's that yield 248-249 WHP.

You do the math.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, Stillen CAB, 04 Z Suspension

 

I say your assessement is about on par.
A tough pill to swallow indeed, but none the less many of us are still drawn to the mod fever. Having said that and cost aside, 25rwhp is still a sizable gain to be had. Significant enough to be measurable at the track. 'Bolt-On' and 'Bang for the Bux' were never meant to be in the same sentence, while off the shelf FI options never had 'long term' in mind.

Us human work in a silly way ... *laughs* ... if part of it pays for the placebo effect then that'll make all the difference in the world ... just know whatever you do decide on, you'll luv it!

Cheers,

Clint (THX723)

 

You've seen the light and come to the same conclusion that most of us have: that the VQ from the factory is pretty well 'tuned' out of the box, and that extra ponies are hard to come by. No secret there.
Also that adding hp increases for mods cumulatively doesn't work out. IE: 10 for a plenum and 6 for an intake only really amount to 12 if your lucky.

I'll leave the comments on FI to the more experienced members here, but from what I've seen and heard, the VQ will handle FI (to a point) but has to be set up and tuned carefully by very experienced hands.

I for one am glad that other people post their mistakes and errors as well as their victories -- God bless 'em for trying to help others.
Cheap lessons aren't they? [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=black>Silverstone Coupe</font color=black>

 

My take: Ever since I got the coupe, I learned how to drive manual, I attended safety driving schools, autoX schools, track schools, and spent lots of time cruising around learning the car. What I feel is this:

The stock VQ35DE engine in the G35C is plenty powerful! The chasis could use some more fine tuning to make driving more fun. I would do the sway bars, possible suspension mods, and a new set of wheels with racing tires on them. For my purposes, I would not touch the intake-tube-plenum-rods-cam-header-cat-exhaust-muffler combination. At least not until I feel I can utilize an extra 3hp and feel the difference.

With the G35C, I feel like wearing the Nike Jordan shoes, the capability of the car far outshines my ability to fully exploit it.

 

"no offense or anything... but why would u mention exhaust and say cats and plenum arent worht it? I would say that exhaust is probably on my list last of things i want under TS ECU
cats and plenum."...Raznips.

I think what he is saying and this is what I believe too after growing out of modding is that you can slap on an exhaust and get some benefits (nice tone and maybe additional horses) without voiding your warranty. changing the plenum, ECU, emissions system will for sure void your warranty if anything should go wrong. The ECU is the big player here since it controls the engine, if you modify or touch the ECU then all warranties are off on the entire engine. Emissons, becuse it is federaly madated by the EPA, they don't fool around with that either. Touch the emission system and your warranty's gone. I know there is a law to protect the consumer on aftermarket parts, but are you prepared to spend thousands of dollars and countless hours defending that right in court? I've been through a denied warranty because of a mod and it cost me 5k. I learned a lesson the hard way, it's not worth it to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars modifing a perfectly good new car to gain a few HP with the probability of decreased reliability and voided warranties looming overhead. Sure it might be fun, but if you step back and look at the overall picture it really doesn't make economic or resonable sense. You can easilly spend $15k on your $35k car and sure you'll have a fast car, but it's still a $35k car. You're better of just plopping down for a $50k car in the first place and have a nice car with a warranty. it's like dropping $15k on a civic, sure it's gonna be damn fast but what would you rather drive a fast civic with potential reliability problems or a G35 with full warranty coverage. it's the same amount of money in the end.

 

Also adding that last 25 hp is fun and only $750 if you do it without touching exhaust including not touching cats. All you need is plenum and a one more mod and your about done. Headers and a full cat back system would add some power but the returns are diminishing.

Essentially I was always after the cheap way to add the power so i wanted to limit the amount of mods and money per mod. 400 for plenum 200 for the pulley - z tube for free if you cut up the stcok one...hell 600 bucks is about all you really have to spend to get about 85-90 of the "limit" described.




2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

I can only speak for myself, but it's not all about the HP for me. It's about making my G different from the other guys or gals G. I don't want to be just another out of the box G35. I want my car to look, sound, perform better then your run of the mill G35. That's all.

 

I agree. The gains are marginal at best, constantly fighting the ECU unless you go the FI route along with the risks.

For me personally it's a fun hobby and I've learned more about my G (and still am) than I would have if not for this forum and getting my hands dirty with some bolt-ons. I've reached my comfort level and am happy with what I've done.

With that I would add that the beauty of our Gs can't be measured soley by straight line results.

2K4 G35x/Brilliant Silver/Graphite/Premium/Wood
Stillen Hi-Flow/ Z tube/ Crawford V5/ Ground Kit
coupe midpipe/HKS exhaust

 

Great replies by everyone here, seems like a pretty mature crowd. I've been in other msg boards where it turns into flame central.

I respect everyone's opinion, I was purely offering my advice after countless hours reading on the forums and after being a heavily experienced car modder.

Also, give it 2 more years and there will probably be some 'new' parts that really help out, that's how it is for every car.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, Stillen CAB, 04 Z Suspension

 

exagorazo,

What were the results of your dyno run?

<font color=blue>The above statements are only my take on the issue. If you disagree with anything I typed then you are 100% right!</font color=blue>

 

The Ideas and comments expressed so far regarding moding have been boucing around the back of my mind for sometime as well. In my mind our cars even stock, are like taking a thoroughbred race horse on a cart path.... the way they are without performance mods really is plenty. So throwing more money at them to squeeze even more HP out does seem a little ridiculous. But then again each mod has its own pay-off in the mind of the modder...so it always comes down to ones ability to justify it in your own mind. To me its just a means of satisfying ones thirst to focus ones attention, as a means of distraction from other areas of ones life...in summary "An Escape"!!

Tony B. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
2003.5 G35 Caribbean Blue Sedan

 

Neff,

Still waiting for my plenum. It's due next week. I plan to replace the plugs at the same time, thinking that mine may be a tad fouled because my ECU was tuned for the non-existent-yet plenum and I expect things are running rich. Exhaust tips seem kinda black.

So the plan is - install plenum, change plugs, reset, drive a couple tanks and then schedule a dyno (125 miles from me ( :0( ).