Hello everyone, I received my ATI kit 2 weeks ago and decided to install the parts of the kit that i can (everything but the brackets and SC) because i sent out for the TS flash, Got a used ecu for 175 shipped! Note that im using a custom intercooler 34"12"4" with 3inlet/outlets. The installation was basic, i took off the front bumper cover, then relocated the power steering to the far diver side with the kit that procharger provided, however i went one step farther and routed new 3.8 line all the way to the fittings closest to the pump and reservoir. I had to do this to fit my bigger intercooler and clear way for the 3" piping route. This took about 1 hour. Then I routed my existing 3" intake kit (i created myself using various 45degree alum. pipes and customs plate i had made at a local shop) all the way to my intercooler and popped a high flow on the inlet at the passenger side of the intercooler. (Now the air is drawn from the opening of the front bumper then into the intercooler up to my mas and into the throttle body. There was a nice boost of power just from this alone! The response of throttle seemed dramatically improved. I was pretty impressed, almost made me want to go dyno it before i finish the rest of the SC install. But i decided not to cause id have to drive 4 hours to the nearest qualified shot "Chicago". Just a basic write up, for those who want a true cold air and do not want to go True FI. Plus you still have the aggressive look of the intercooler peaking out of the front! I will try to get pics, but that means ill have to take off my bumper again: mad: Total cost was under 400 bux! Believe it or not, hence i am using my old DSM race intercooler. But i see you can find nice intercoolers "non-brand name" for 300 bucks. Considering cold air kits now can cost 200+. Not, i did a test run after about 1 week of break in, drove my car hard for about 30min on country roads, opened the hood to see if the intake pipes were heat soaked and man they were ice cold!!! : D if i wasn’t going to go Full FI id prob keep it as is. But the quest for power and deseaese of spending hard earned dollars has bit me again!

 

So, basically, you are running the intake thru an air to air intercooler, without any forced induction?

I would say the restriction on the intake negate any cooling effect the intercooler has. Additionally, there probably isn't much cooling effect anyhow, as non-compressed air is being heated up all that much just by running through an intaek.

The whole point of an intercooler as that the turbo/supercharger heats up the air as it compresses it. Basic gas law: PV=nRT P being pressure, V volume, n number of molecules, R, Avogadros number (a constant), and T, temperature. As the charger increases the pressure, the temperature also increases, as the equation must be satisfied. Also, some heat is induced by turbochargers themselves being really hot from being the exhaust path flow. Anyways, the intercooler helps cool down some of that heat, which came from being compressed.

As you don't have any compression going on, there is no heat being added, and thus your intercooler is not doing anything. I would have to say that your "butt-dyno" is not very well calibrated....

Dave

 

are you saying this didn’t help my car at all??? from my "basic" understanding of a good CIA, it should provide an adequate supply of air, as well as providing cooler air. Which this setup does, you don’t need to be a rocket scienctist to figure that out. What is all this talk about pressure? I am simply stating that i think this is the coldest air i can create without FI.
Basic logic, I would assume would also lead me to believe that yes my intercooler is doing some sort of work. Also this setup seems to be pretty damn free flowing, granted there is no pressure from a turbo from a SC which was stated in my original post. This setup might not be necessary for other people to do but i figure i try it out. Fortunately we have experts like you to help

Sorry i do not know how to calibrate a buttdyno, if you do have a buttdyno-formula please pm it to me so i may recal. My butt

 

Yes, it is the coldest air you can create without going to a water/air intercooler. The problems is that any gains you will get by lowering the temp of the air 5-10 degreees more than a a regular CAI (which the stock intake on a G35 is already a CAI) will be offset by the restriction in flow that the intercooler causes.

The reason an I/C works for F/I is that the air is heated up way above the ambient air temperature by the turbocharger (or supercharger) as a direct result of compression. When you compress air (or any gas) the air will heat up. This is somewhat illustrated by the following: you know the cans of compressed air that you use to clean out the dust from a computer? You know how when you spray them the air coming out feels cold, and the can gets really cold if you spray a lot of air out? Thats because the pressure inside the can is dropping, and when the pressure drops, the temperature drops. The oppositie also happens, if you increazse the pressure, the can will heat up. Well, the same thing happens when you turbocharge a car. It's basic thermodynamics. (Ah, the benfits of a college edumacation...)

However, the air going in your car is not that much higher a temp than the ambient air, and an I/C, at it's best, can only cool the air to the ambient air temperature. As I said earlier, this does help, but the minor help is more than counteracted by the restriction an I/C provides.

The comment about the butt dyno i smeant to imply that often people have claimed they 'felt' gains when an actual dyno has show there were no or only very little gains. Most people can not feel the difference of a few percentage of HP. On the G, a 10% HP difference is 30 HP, and 10% is actually somewhat difficult to feel. It wasn't a slight against you, it only meant that what you feel is completely subjective and really doesn't mean much.

Dave

 

placebo... but still looks cool, and btw there are actually I/C looking intake out there to buy so you dun gotta ghetto rig one~

 

1% density change per 11F temp change.

Usual restrictions [intake tract from air box to intake valves] from the outside [supercharger effect] of atmospheric 14.7 psi [29.92 " HG] is less than 1.0 psi......total drop plenum [measure so called WOT vacuum in plenum ~~ 20" WC or 20/27.7=0.72 psi restriction].

Engineers think in terms of what is the pressure drop from the outside atmosphere [+14.7 psi at sealevel with standard barometer] to the pressure delivered to the cylinder......total restriction.

People get confused thinking the engine sucks in air, when in fact the missing air [expanded out thru exhaust valves by high temperature after the burn] is just replaced by outside air pressure.

An 18" HG idling [so called vacuum] is in fact a 18/29.92= 0.6 x 14.7 = 8.84 psi postive pressure on the intake valves.

A 1.0 psi intercooler added restriction at some flow rate would need to be balanced with a lowering of the air temperature [by 6.8% density increase per psi no change in temperature] which would require a temperature drop of 6.8 x 11F or 75F to just be EQUAL - no gain or loss from adding intercooler.

Even a 1/4 of a psi [7" WC] added restriction would need to drop air temp by 19F to just be neutral.

Till you boost outside air pressure above 4 psi or even 6 psi [depends on efficiency of supercharger] an intercooler may cause more restriction than it helps by lowering temperature.

Radial superchargers are very efficient [less excess air heating] per psi created and much less driving hp required compared to EATON type [axial] superchargers.......why you see intercoolers on Eaton type installs even at 5,6,7,8 psi from oem.

 

And there is your technical explanation with numbers, which I couldn't give, not being an engineer. My degree is only physics, so I think in terms of theory, not what is actually useful

Dave

 

Even with a chilled water [via cars AC system] intercooler [~~33F] the gain would only be 120-50F =70F or 6% roughly equal to a 0.8 psi loss thru intercooler.

Except that in Summer the engine wouldn't knock or use up any of the summer spark retard so there might be a much better feel with 50F air flowing into engine even with the pressure loss. ???