Group discount for level 10 VB???
#16
08-28-2006, 04:06 PM
#17
08-28-2006, 05:42 PM
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Here's a question, since the valve body design changed for 04.5+ models so the TCM is directly attached to it. Are they rebuilding your own VB that you send in or doing a core exchange? Need to make sure they're aware of the difference so somebody with an 05 doesn't get a core back from an 03-04..
#18
08-28-2006, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by helldorado
Here's a question, since the valve body design changed for 04.5+ models so the TCM is directly attached to it. Are they rebuilding your own VB that you send in or doing a core exchange? Need to make sure they're aware of the difference so somebody with an 05 doesn't get a core back from an 03-04..
from dealer on 04 5At & 05 5At valve body. That he is sure it's the same, other wise, he couldn't do it. He do not have Core for 05 Sedan 5At.
#19
08-28-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by exagorazo
Apparently you haven't read this thread or you wouldn't be able to say that.
Nothing muddies the waters more than stories instead of experience!
If folk on these forums posted only what they know to be true from personal experience instead of hearsay, generalizations, and unfounded opinions, we could spend 1/10th the time reading them and come away with 10 times as much accurate information.
Nothing muddies the waters more than stories instead of experience!
If folk on these forums posted only what they know to be true from personal experience instead of hearsay, generalizations, and unfounded opinions, we could spend 1/10th the time reading them and come away with 10 times as much accurate information.
No offence, but the majority folks on these forums are car stupid (myself including
) - i'll sooner believe somebody on a Ford board whose actually disassembled their drivetrain and valve body and seen the work than people on here. hehe.
#21
08-29-2006, 01:56 AM
Registered User
Originally Posted by Mr_pharmD
level 10 emailed me back. It's very tempting.
The valvebody lists for $798.00. We would need a minimum buy of 5 cars. The discount would be $649.00 for each car. We must receive 5 deposits before group discount is given. Please call with any questions regarding this reply
The valvebody lists for $798.00. We would need a minimum buy of 5 cars. The discount would be $649.00 for each car. We must receive 5 deposits before group discount is given. Please call with any questions regarding this reply
Also, as far as Level 10 is concerned, I know personally a GOOD friend of mine that spent $4000 on a tranny upgrade from them, that worked for 300 miles. This was a so-called "built" tranny, that upon disassembly was discovered to have totally stock clutches and plates, and they refused to fix it (the tranny was shipped overseas). There are no clutches being made for our cars (a fact as of a month ago when I last checked), so I have no idea what they are/have been putting into their built trannies for almost two years now. They are terrible and have a terrible track record, even if my friend exagoraso had a good experience with them. There are always goingto be some satisfied customers, but there are truly too many poor quality works by them. I would not reward them with a GB.
#22
08-29-2006, 03:43 AM
#23
08-29-2006, 07:27 AM
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When I asked Sam at level 10, he admitted that the "pretty much" the whole point for the VB upgrade is to up the tranny line pressure. SGP stated on their website that they also put in bigger solonoids. The bigger solonoid allows even higher line pressure. The bigger solonoid account for the $200 difference between SGP vs. level10.
Non-disclosure agreement is often used to hide simple facts that, if revealed, less people may be willing to pay. Although I think $200 for solonoids seems reasonable.
Now, I read my 05 Service manual pdf. (There is a place on this site that point you to a place to down load 05 tech manuals for free), it states that TCM up adjust the line pressure for tranny when detect higher torque from Engine.
It would seem like if one could crack the TCM code, the baseline for line presure could easily be up adjusted. Or, better yet, Could Infiniti Dealer
Raise the Line pressure baseline? It would certainly be reasonable to
assume. BMW M3 tranny has several moldes for shifting with the same Valve body, from soft to super fast, I am guessing it's software adjusted line pressure at work.
Also, it would mean the 05 Tranny would shift faster when detect the additional torque resulted from FI. Anyone read the 04 manual? Does it say the same thing abut 03/04 5AT?
Has anyone called dealer to find out if the linepresure could be raised?
Non-disclosure agreement is often used to hide simple facts that, if revealed, less people may be willing to pay. Although I think $200 for solonoids seems reasonable.
Now, I read my 05 Service manual pdf. (There is a place on this site that point you to a place to down load 05 tech manuals for free), it states that TCM up adjust the line pressure for tranny when detect higher torque from Engine.
It would seem like if one could crack the TCM code, the baseline for line presure could easily be up adjusted. Or, better yet, Could Infiniti Dealer
Raise the Line pressure baseline? It would certainly be reasonable to
assume. BMW M3 tranny has several moldes for shifting with the same Valve body, from soft to super fast, I am guessing it's software adjusted line pressure at work.
Also, it would mean the 05 Tranny would shift faster when detect the additional torque resulted from FI. Anyone read the 04 manual? Does it say the same thing abut 03/04 5AT?
Has anyone called dealer to find out if the linepresure could be raised?
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Just know that you are getting a few springs and bored out holes in the vb for 650, something that sells as a $125 kit for every auto tranny out there. What you get with Forged's or SGP's upgrade is a far more complex and sophisticated setup (I wish I could say more, but I am under a non-disclosure agreement to not reveal how it works).
Also, as far as Level 10 is concerned, I know personally a GOOD friend of mine that spent $4000 on a tranny upgrade from them, that worked for 300 miles. This was a so-called "built" tranny, that upon disassembly was discovered to have totally stock clutches and plates, and they refused to fix it (the tranny was shipped overseas). There are no clutches being made for our cars (a fact as of a month ago when I last checked), so I have no idea what they are/have been putting into their built trannies for almost two years now. They are terrible and have a terrible track record, even if my friend exagoraso had a good experience with them. There are always goingto be some satisfied customers, but there are truly too many poor quality works by them. I would not reward them with a GB.
Also, as far as Level 10 is concerned, I know personally a GOOD friend of mine that spent $4000 on a tranny upgrade from them, that worked for 300 miles. This was a so-called "built" tranny, that upon disassembly was discovered to have totally stock clutches and plates, and they refused to fix it (the tranny was shipped overseas). There are no clutches being made for our cars (a fact as of a month ago when I last checked), so I have no idea what they are/have been putting into their built trannies for almost two years now. They are terrible and have a terrible track record, even if my friend exagoraso had a good experience with them. There are always goingto be some satisfied customers, but there are truly too many poor quality works by them. I would not reward them with a GB.
#25
08-29-2006, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by ma_sha1
#26
08-29-2006, 10:50 AM
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The ECU sets line pressure that the TCU monitors.TS Raised ours in their re flash,the Consult cannot..EVen higher pressure solenoids will conflict with the TCU and those that go in that direction modify that feedback circuit...A valve body is not rocket science and several work well.Horror stories exist against all of them ,often to cover the owners mistakes
It is painfully true,most owners know little in this area...educate yourself,$700 is still $700
And yes,Level 10 has done all of my race cars and personal cars since around1990.When I got the FX I called with these stupid design problems in the trans and went to see them...got them corrected.When I joined sites,in particlar Org,everyone was complaining and no one had addressed the problems.I truly did not understand that,but simply shared what I had done.To the person who knew there were no better than stock clutches available,glad you clarified that.There are now and in my car 5 clutch packs not 4 stock all performance level.Available to the public in about 2 weeks
It is painfully true,most owners know little in this area...educate yourself,$700 is still $700
And yes,Level 10 has done all of my race cars and personal cars since around1990.When I got the FX I called with these stupid design problems in the trans and went to see them...got them corrected.When I joined sites,in particlar Org,everyone was complaining and no one had addressed the problems.I truly did not understand that,but simply shared what I had done.To the person who knew there were no better than stock clutches available,glad you clarified that.There are now and in my car 5 clutch packs not 4 stock all performance level.Available to the public in about 2 weeks
Last edited by brnjug; 08-29-2006 at 11:33 AM.
#28
08-29-2006, 01:00 PM
The point I suppose is not whether Level 10 is capable - but whether they have the customer support to back up the sale when problems arise. And bad things happen - just a fact of life - but it doesn't seem like they take care of their customers who experience problems...
Even if they come out with a great product (new clutch packs or whatever), a consumer has to accept a greater risk of a bad outcome because of their customer service history.
Horror stories may exist for most all shops (can't say I have scoured the Internet looking for them) but Level 10 seems the most prominent among the others (Stillen, SGP, Forged). In fact I only remember reading two (now 3 with Gurgen's post) about Level 10 - so maybe if they do 1000 VB a year, 3 might not seem that bad. Again, not a technical demerit - just a customer service one.
Even if they come out with a great product (new clutch packs or whatever), a consumer has to accept a greater risk of a bad outcome because of their customer service history.
Horror stories may exist for most all shops (can't say I have scoured the Internet looking for them) but Level 10 seems the most prominent among the others (Stillen, SGP, Forged). In fact I only remember reading two (now 3 with Gurgen's post) about Level 10 - so maybe if they do 1000 VB a year, 3 might not seem that bad. Again, not a technical demerit - just a customer service one.
Last edited by rcdash; 08-29-2006 at 01:02 PM.
#29
08-29-2006, 03:49 PM
Registered User
Anyway.... I said my piece. One thing that i can say that it would really help not to make suppositions and empty statements likethe ones in this thread by people who don't actually know.
One other thing that I will say is that VB of pre-2003 nissan cars were all the same, becuase the trannys didn't involve closed loop line pressure control. And NO, it's not set by the ecu, but is set by the TCM and minotred by the TCM. Without overriding the closed loop response of the tranny solenoids/TCM, there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can keep the line pressure raised throughout the duration of the shift, which is why you can never chirp tires and have very high speed shifts with no chance of clutch slip with the L10/Stillen VBs. If you want verification of this, connect fluid pressure gauges to all of the four ports (situated just aft of the rear edge of the AT fluid pan under the transmission... these are 1/8"BSP threads). This way you can monitor the actualy line pressure; if you do this you will see that with the l10/stillen VB'b, the line pressure IS up from the stock level of 205-210 (to approximately 240-250) at WOT, but right before the shift, it dips right back down to 205 before the actual shift occurs. That does not happen with the Forged/SGP VB. This is just a fact. And no, SGP does not change the solenoids, smth else is involved.
One other thing that I will say is that VB of pre-2003 nissan cars were all the same, becuase the trannys didn't involve closed loop line pressure control. And NO, it's not set by the ecu, but is set by the TCM and minotred by the TCM. Without overriding the closed loop response of the tranny solenoids/TCM, there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can keep the line pressure raised throughout the duration of the shift, which is why you can never chirp tires and have very high speed shifts with no chance of clutch slip with the L10/Stillen VBs. If you want verification of this, connect fluid pressure gauges to all of the four ports (situated just aft of the rear edge of the AT fluid pan under the transmission... these are 1/8"BSP threads). This way you can monitor the actualy line pressure; if you do this you will see that with the l10/stillen VB'b, the line pressure IS up from the stock level of 205-210 (to approximately 240-250) at WOT, but right before the shift, it dips right back down to 205 before the actual shift occurs. That does not happen with the Forged/SGP VB. This is just a fact. And no, SGP does not change the solenoids, smth else is involved.
Last edited by GurgenPB; 08-29-2006 at 03:51 PM.
#30
08-29-2006, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Anyway.... I said my piece. One thing that i can say that it would really help not to make suppositions and empty statements likethe ones in this thread by people who don't actually know.
One other thing that I will say is that VB of pre-2003 nissan cars were all the same, becuase the trannys didn't involve closed loop line pressure control. And NO, it's not set by the ecu, but is set by the TCM and minotred by the TCM. Without overriding the closed loop response of the tranny solenoids/TCM, there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can keep the line pressure raised throughout the duration of the shift, which is why you can never chirp tires and have very high speed shifts with no chance of clutch slip with the L10/Stillen VBs. If you want verification of this, connect fluid pressure gauges to all of the four ports (situated just aft of the rear edge of the AT fluid pan under the transmission... these are 1/8"BSP threads). This way you can monitor the actualy line pressure; if you do this you will see that with the l10/stillen VB'b, the line pressure IS up from the stock level of 205-210 (to approximately 240-250) at WOT, but right before the shift, it dips right back down to 205 before the actual shift occurs. That does not happen with the Forged/SGP VB. This is just a fact. And no, SGP does not change the solenoids, smth else is involved.
One other thing that I will say is that VB of pre-2003 nissan cars were all the same, becuase the trannys didn't involve closed loop line pressure control. And NO, it's not set by the ecu, but is set by the TCM and minotred by the TCM. Without overriding the closed loop response of the tranny solenoids/TCM, there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can keep the line pressure raised throughout the duration of the shift, which is why you can never chirp tires and have very high speed shifts with no chance of clutch slip with the L10/Stillen VBs. If you want verification of this, connect fluid pressure gauges to all of the four ports (situated just aft of the rear edge of the AT fluid pan under the transmission... these are 1/8"BSP threads). This way you can monitor the actualy line pressure; if you do this you will see that with the l10/stillen VB'b, the line pressure IS up from the stock level of 205-210 (to approximately 240-250) at WOT, but right before the shift, it dips right back down to 205 before the actual shift occurs. That does not happen with the Forged/SGP VB. This is just a fact. And no, SGP does not change the solenoids, smth else is involved.
I must admit that you have raised my curiosity about how the Level Ten VB upgrade is deficient, especially since I already have one!
What all does the Level Ten VB upgrade include?
Does their upgrade overcome the closed loop issues?
What are the pressures before and during shifts in the Level Ten VB?
What, if anything, does Level Ten do the the solenoid in their upgraded VB?
How does their VB cause my tranny to shift so much faster than before?
Level Ten told me that they have a number of Nissan trannys out there with ONLY the VB upgrade that are successfully surviving around 450 WHP. Is this not true?