I would like to share the Good News for thouse with 05 or later model going FI.

My dealer just installed my AEM wideband A/F gauge to my 05 G35x & was able to get wideband A/F read out from OE 02 sensor.

He said 05 or later G comes with two wideband 02 sensors, one left & one right,
so all you need is a wideband gauge.

Did anyone know anout this before?

 

dude, that is totally yesterday's news.


j/k. that's kinda cool. post up some pics of your gauge set up.

 

That's great news! The late model saturns and RSX's also have NICE factory widebands.

 

Dude, you almost got me there for a moment.
Here is the photo again. I posted it elsewhere a few days ago without the
'News" as I was selling the AEM sensor on ebay.

 

yeah this is definitely been around for a while. However, you can't just tap the o2 sensor voltage and display it to a guage, it will not be accurate. The temperature compensation is done by the controllr built into the ecu.. so it's not that simple.

Also, it's starting with the LEV2 cars, (nov 2003 manufacture date and beyond, approximately) , thye all had widebands. So that's not just 05's, but also, 04.5's.

 

But its not accurate as Aftermarket WB Sensor all people advice to avoid using the factory sensors, especially if you went FI because the car is originally designed to not get more richer than 12.5 AFR

 

You can get accurate readings in 04.5+ cars by using a tool like CIPHER and a calibration curve (which is posted somewhere).

No gauge necessary... that said NETSHARK is right -> most going FI will not trust the OEM widebands as they are not designed for the same range as FI (which runs richer)... [EDIT-SEE GURGEN's POST BELOW - I stand corrected]

(I don't know this for a fact as I've never seen someone compare an aftermarket wideband output with CIPHER log data in a FI application)

 

No. all widebands have a range of 7.35 to 22.39, that's the technology, this pretty much goees for Bosch LSu4.2 and NTK sensors. The range has nothign to do with it. I promise you, if your car runs at 8:1 afr for some reason, your cipher will show 8:1. Range has nothign to do with it. The problem is that the stock ECu will NOT do any kind of free-air calibration on the sensors. Just like the AEM UEGO gauge, the car will rely on the sensors factory calibration, which is accurate to +/.14 units ON A BRAND NEW SENSOR. Here is the problem... all WB sensors exhibit "sensor ageing"...after several hours of use (don't remember the number), the accuracy goes to +/- 2. After 500 hours of use, +/- 0.2-0.4. A good WB controller, like the Innovate one, will do free air calibration, so you can always perfectly calibrate the sensors any time you want... as long as it's exposed to free air (like 6-8 hours after car's shutdown, or unscrewing the sensors and let hem hang in fresh air); it's very simple to do that if you have the LC-1/XD-16 wideband combo...you just press the button on the XD gauge three times, until "CAL" lights up, and then pressing it one more time calibrates instantly. SO, you see why don't like WB systems that can't do that. Others that do do that are Motec ECU, Motec PLM controllers, Magnetti Marelli. I have yet to verify if the HKS Knock amp does it or not.

HTH

 

Certainly enlightening if not helpful info. I have an Innovate and wouldn't trade it for any other out there.

 

bro, that A pillar is hurtin for coverage... do the rest on suede

 

Great info. So does the accuracy contunue to drop after 500hrs or does it hold at +/- 0.2-0.4? Does the accuracy change +/- every time you start the car or is it a swing in one direction that coninues to increase as the sensor ages to the 500hr mark. If it holds at the 500hr point could you take the car to a dyno and compare readings using the dynos WB02. This way you would know what the offset is and adjust for it? In my other car I use a Profec E01 to display AFR and it allows you to offset the voltage to AFR ratio.

 

I want to differentiate between accuracy and precision. Accuracy is definitely affected, and yes, it will continue to go down to a certain point, but i do not have those values. Now, when i say +/- 0.4, it will not necessarily go to one end of that spectrum or another, but when it does, i just don't want to be on the receiving end of that error. TIf you hear some people say that will tell you that 0.4 off is not a big deal, call them "misinformed" or "idiots" please. It's likely that it will not be a problem, but still sufficiently enough of a problem that if you have a tight tune, which any all-out race setup car has, that can become a real issues, say, 20% ofthe time.

As for precision, I will have to look at the white papers forthat again, but it's very possible/likely that both precision and accuracy are affected. Which means that even if you were to come up with a correction factor, you would still be off if the measurements aren't precise. As for correction factors, in short, NO, it's not possible to implement one, since when they become inaccurate, they do so non-linearly; i.e. they are more inaccurate in richer areas than in leaner areas, that's my understanding.

Short answer, if oyu have an AEM, sell it and buy an Innovate. If oyu can't afford to, then tune your car sloppy (with at least 0.4-0.5 afr units richer then you otherwise would). If you don't own one yet and are on a market for one, then it'd be silly to go for a unit that does not calibrate.

HTH

EDIT: P.S. I would never use a dyno wideband measurement as the benchmark for calibrating your own wb afr system. You would not believe some of the measurements that i haveseen come from dyno wb sensors (some off by full 1.8-2 points on the lean side). Especially if they use a tailpipe measurement. Now, if they use calibrating units, like the Motec PLM or Innovate (and there ar eothers) and are screwed into a bung on the downpipe and were recently (last 20 hours) calibrated, they they can definately be trsuted. One exception for the tailpipe factor, if your dyno, and I haven't personally seen one (but know that EFI university facilities use them) is that if the innovate exhaust clamp that is beautifully designed http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2

 

What about the TurboXS tuner reg? Does it auto-calibrate?

 

Thanks Gurgen, very informative post.

According to UpRev post on my350z, OEM WB sensors range is 0-3V which they calibrated to 10.95-30.00 AFR with LM1 sensor from Innovate

 

No prob

Sorry for the typos guys, there was a lot of glare on my laptop at the time I was typing this.