oh cool, both graphs
here's a quick and dirty overlay

red/purple = vortech
blue/green = greddy


from 4100rpms to redline the vortech had the advantage it looks like for these two setups/psi levels

...actually it looks like my previous graph where I was guessing turned out to be fairly close

 

Your exactly right . Look at the graph the OP and Sentry posted . Power and trq are there at 2500rpm to 2800 rpm while the SCer is still at least 100 to 150whp and trq below it and doesnt catch it till 4000 to 4500rpm [something like that ]. The TT car will be to many car lengths ahead by the time the SCed car gets up steam . Even with your lower 4psi....it more than likely would beat your SCed set up in a 1/4 mile . Might be close , but I think it still would win .
A simular thread has been going on over at 350Z...a 400whp ST against a 400whp SC .

 

100-150 more tq/whp than a turbo at 2500-2800 rpms?
ok that's quite a ways away from reality

a big displacement engine might be capable of that, but not even the JWT TT kit will pull off 100-150 more tq (which equals 44-66 more whp @ 2500 rpms, not 100-150)


the graph is right there. Even on the dyno not much time is spent below 3000 rpms and that was probably dynoed in 4th or 5th gear so the turbo could really spool up early

you'd spend like a second below 4100 rpms in 1st gear during a launch with maybe around 50 more tq at 2500 rpms than the SC (about 23 more whp at 2500 rpms)

 

read what you just typed ...get it straight if your going to get on me .

I said ....something like that...., I didnt have the graph in front of me ....but still the whp and trq from a TT car at 4psi will be a lot more at 2000rpm to 3000rpm . You keep argueing about a dead horse . And split as many hairs as you can to keep a stupid arguement going , or to satisfy your need to be right . ANd it more than likely is the latter .

how come you didnt post up all your stupid graphs in the thread at my350 ? You can adjust them any way you want anyway .

 

I edited my post 10 seconds after I posted it, i divided wrong and corrected it

doesn't stop your post from being wrong - you can't have 100-150 more tq than a vortech at 2500 rpms on this engine. Not even nitrous can be shot at that rpm. Maybe a stroker kit might pull it off though or maybe if you did a 6th gear dyno pull starting at 1000 rpms and waited the 10 seconds it'd take you to reach 2500 rpms to make 100 more tq than a vortech

and you should know 100-150tq does not equal 100-150 whp when you're talking about 2500-2800 rpms
that's only true if you're right at 5252 rpms



the idea is you spend next to zero time below 4000 rpms in a race. If you spend more time than that, then you need to learn what gears are and downshift to the proper lower gear which will go by faster

 

Now read what I typed.....I said something like that......now stop harping on a number .

Fact is the TT car will have quite a bit more whp and trq for around or over 2/3rd's of the rpm range at 4psi .

 

yeah if both cars are the same PSI

no one here is talking about the same PSI - not even in the other 400whp thread going on right now. They're talking about whp being the same


This thread was about 617G's comparison to the 4psi greddy vs 8-9?psi vortech and he even posted his dyno graphs which for the entire WOT rpm range, his vortech looks like it was making a noticably higher amount of power than the 4 psi greddy setup

Below 4100, into the "2/3 of the rpm range" (as you put it) the greddy will rule the day - which his charts don't really show in this case, but we all know is true.

if the greddy didn't have lag, it'd start the dyno off already being at 300 tq or so. Or if the greddy started at like 2000 rpms, it'd build up full boost by 3k rpms or whatever

 

Thats right...Im not talking about 4 psi for both....4psi for the TT and what ever psi he had to make his 370 or what ever whp for the SCer . Probably 8psi .The SC will not even hit 4psi till around or over 4500rpm [ have to look at old logs ]

But anyway....talking about anything with you is like pulling teeth anyway...so Im letting it rest .

 

Vortech was at 7.X lbs, Greddy at 4psi until 5200, then drops down to 3.5. This was the first pull once it was tuned for wastegate pressure before the boost was turned up. It was also about 9X degrees and extremely humid.

The butt dyno does not lie. Down low, the TT's are no doubt faster than the SC felt, but up top the SC def has the edge.

None of this really matters in the long run. I just wanted to show the diff between the two setups via a plot. Even at 4 psi, the TT is making very good power compared to the 3.12 Vortech I had.

 

For reference here are my approx dyno numbers. If someone wants to plot them vs the Vortech.

----------4.8psi------------- 8psi
----------HP------- TQ------- HP------- TQ
2000----100------265------100------265
2500----150------315------150------315
3000----180------320------205------360
3500----215------320------255------385
4000----250------325------300------390
4500----285------335------335------400
5000----300------320------355------375
5500----330------320------390------375
6000----345------300------405------350
6500----0-------- 0---------0---------0

 

For comparison's sake...I went from a dig with an M3 today (no launch) and put 2 cars by 70mph when I shut it down (55mph road). The TT def hauls *** from a dig. The Vortech didn't "take off" until 4k rpm. Again, no launch.

 

cool let it rest
everyone on the other thead seems to agree that for equal whp cars, the vortech would be a little slower than a turbo.

But I'm confused why you say a vortech with 30 more tq and 50 more whp over the entire rpm WOT range is still slower than a turbo.

Yeah the turbo would get the initial jump from a dig, but that's only for the first 1-2 seconds of a race. Gear change after gear change, during the other 10-20 seconds of the race, the 4psi greddy seems to be at a noticable disadvantage in this case compared to the previous vortech

HE POSTED HIS DYNO CHARTS
we all know how to read dyno charts right?

617G's dyno didn't pick up and record all the low end tq the greddy, but I threw in some dots where the tq and whp probably were at. It really can't be higher than 300 tq, it's just not possible. 4psi across the entire rpm range and the engine's efficiency will make the tq peak happen at mid rpms. So below 4000-4500 rpms, I'd expect he makes less than 300 tq with 4 psi


here's 617G's greddy 4psi and vortech dyno charts again - that HE posted. All I did was overlay them and change the color for the sake of reading them easier

 

http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.p...5&goto=newpost

hear is the other thread where your getting pounded...trying to make the same arguement there too .

Now I let you have the last word......another thing you seem to have to have...lol...some peoples kids....lmfao !!!

 

Yes a 4psi Greddy is not that great when compared to a higher boost Vortech at high rpm. But who would ever run that set-up for any length of time? Lets see equal boost plots.

 

I have to agree with Sentry on that last graph he posted. In a race, the RPM's will be over 4800 95% of the time, with the other 5% being during the launch.

If the TT kit would have had been tuned with the same peak power as the SC Kit, then the outcome would be obvious. But in this case, for a race, I would give the slight edge to the higher tuned SC kit vs the conservative tune of the TT.

.