So should I add meth after the build yall thing- at risk of my rods?

 

^^ huh?

meth wont help the fact that the mechanical limit of your rods is around 400 hp. You setup is rod limited. Any other bandaid to increase power will eventually lead to a set of eagle's or pauter.

 

Meth kit are so cheap (excluding Aquamist..) that it is going to help you one way or the other. Meth will lower your EGT and increase Knock resistance which are both can destroy your engine. You have a better chance of you engine running longer coz the added safety meth give you.

 

Ok, I thought I would ask this question without starting a new post.
I recently had a turbonetics system installed (you may have seen my rant).
I am having a bit of trouble with detonation, I think it is due to inconsistant octane from the pump. I found a station that sells 110 at the pump and walla...detonation gone. I do not want to have to buy 110 all of the time and am not in this area all of the time so now on to the question...finally!

I recieved a Meth/Water injection system from Snow today. I already know the benefits but I want to know if I can install this system without a new tune? Would there be any potentially ill effects or anything to gain?
I don't have a tuner nearby so I was trying to save a trip.

Any info would be great, thanks.

 

Do you have a reflash? It really depend what kind of mix (30/70,40/60, 50/50..etc) are you going to use. If you have a reflash then there is no way to compensate for the extra fuel (Meth) so you will be a little Rich but again it also depend how much you are going spraying. If are knocking then I say fix that first and find the culprit then add the Meth just for added safety.

 

I have a custom re-flash from Technosquare. I wonder if I were to communicate with them what I would like to do, could I just send them the ECU for an updated map? I was only looking to spray enough to eliminate the chance of knock. I only noticed it recently with my last fill up of premium 94, I had a knock problem when the car was stock on that gas and did better with a different brand at 93 octane. I am now running half and half 110 turbo blue and premium and it runs perfectly but I can't always rely on being able to get that gas. I appreciate any reply's and the previous reply.

 

It also depend on what kit you are going to use. Some progressive kit has a tune **** you can adjust to increase/decrease flow (coolingmist Kit) and others you have to swap around the Injector size to get the right amount (Snow Kit). What you can do is start with let say 50/50 mix and play around with your meth kit spray. 50/50 mix will not drastically change your A/F if you do a conservative spray. Once you start spraying and your A/F drop more than .75 then it mean you are spraying to much so adjust the tune **** or change to a smaller injector size.

 

a properly set up meth kit with a 50/50 mixture should drop your AF by 1 point. So the short answer is no, you cannot just add a meth kit with no retune, if you want it set up properly.

If you are just looking for knock prevention, spraying all water works just as well and will not affect your tune.

 

I believe you do have the basic kit right? You don't really get that kind of a drop with a progressive unless you are spraying to much or running more than 50/50 mix. Like I said before, it depend on the kit. Varicool has a tune **** that you can adjust to increase/decrease flow. Snow Performance state that if you see more than .75 drop then you have to change to a smaller nozzle.

Load and RPM play a big roll here too, most kit are not RPM dependent so if you hit let say 8psi at 3000rpm then you'll see a richer A/F drop compare to 8psi at 5000rpm with the same kit coz air flow are different at those rpm. I see this problem on my own kit since I will see a drastic A/F drop around 3500rpm@6psi but drop is not as bad around 5500rpm@6psi. This is because most kit are Map base and just spray the same amount regardless of RPM.

I do agree that a tunable EMS is necessary for this reason or use a 20/80 mix, 20/80 or 30/mix should not affect A/F that much.

 

ya i keep thinking in terms of my blower were boost and rpms are directly related. it makes it easy to tune for meth. with a turbo that has variable boost compared to rpms, a progressive kit or a 3d kit would be ideal.

 

Few clarifications.

Properly tuned, a 50/50 mix should drop the AF by no more than .5 point. You will run richer, but you will make more power at the same time. Not to its full potential obviously, but it should be fine without a retune, unless you are already tuned rich to ~10:1 at WOT.

And Water is a much much better knock deterrent than methanol. Methanol should be considered an octane booster first and a knock deterrent second. Water has a higher specific heat capacity so it will lower your IAT's better than meth and prevent knock more efficiently. You can add water injection without any retune. It will not mess with your AF.

But when you do run 100% water, you have a slight chance of cylinder wash, but with today's modern kits like Aquamist and Snow with their controllers, this should not be a problem.

 

Meth alone also has a great cooling effect of the Intake Air Temp especially when atomized . If meth wasn't to corrosive then I rather spray 100% Meth coz it has the cooling effect and higher octane that will give you higher resistance to knock. Not to mention you can increase boost, timing or run leaner A/F which you can't do with water alone.

 

You guys are awesome! I greatly appreciate the info!

I think I am going to install the kit and experiment with a very conservative mix and with just water. I will eventually get the re-tune but need to find a shop here in the Michigan area to do it or wait till I get back out west in the winter. Thanks again guys.

 

Of course you could run more aggressive timing,boost,etc with water alone. Meth does not even come close to preventing detonation compared to water, unless you run 100%, in which case water still comes up on top.

You could make more power with water injection, but you need to run a bulletproof system so that you have fail safes (Good controller to moniter water/fuel to air ratio at all times to ensure proper mix of water). You aren't going to make as much power as Meth (105+ Octane) because it's basically another fuel source and will see much better gains from increasing timing,boost,etc. My point is, from a safety standpoint, nothing beats water.

That's why a lot of people are running 50/50 for the best of both worlds. I'm just going to be running a 70/30 water/meth mix. Adding a little meth to decrease chance of cylinder wash, but it should boost my power by a little at the same time. I am not going to tune for it as well, just using it for safety and to extend engine life.

 

You are the first one I have encountered that said pure water will give you good gain. Every shop that I have talked to all suggested to even ditch the 50/50 mix and just go straight Meth coz Meth cools more and also gives you the octane to run more aggressive tune. Most shop suggest to use 50/50 for safety. Go ahead and spray pure water and let me know how you do with it without a retune. How can you make more power without a retune Yes Water can cool down your engine coz water is not combustible but water don't really increase the air density of your IAT dramatically. Fact is it may even hurt you without a retune since water will slow down the burn rate in the cylinder.