Talked to a tuner today about installing my Vortech kit. Fairly reputable guy, but seemed to want to "upsell" on the tuning (OSIRIS dealer).

I know that the SS box that comes tandard with the Vortech kit is not the best solution for maximizing performance, but he went as far as saying it will inevitably lead to detonation. His rationalization is that our stock computer will continue to lean out the A/F ratio in an attempt to bring it back to stock (part of the learning aspect). I think this may be overstated.

My understanding is that the SS box will retard timing and increase fuel (via the aux. pump) during boost which seems to be at odds with what this tuner is telling me.

Anybody care to comment?

 

Go with whatever your tuner wants you to because in the end he needs to be comfortable with the platform you are relying on him to tune. If he can't properly tune the SS box and wants to do uprev, then don't argue it. Fine a new tuner instead if you don't want to go with uprev, because he has already chosen uprev for you.

 

So you would go with the a tuner that only knows how to deal with one way of tuning. Sort of the the don't fix it it if it isn't broke mentality. I can see that approach working due to the complexity of tuning.

Still doesn't answer the question of whether you are doomed to failure with a piggy back ECU. There are plenty of turbo XS users that might disagree. Hoepefully they will chime in.

Anyone else?

 

you can totally use your ss box w/o the ecu interfering and trying to 'lean out' your mixtures. thats what the ss box is for. like you said it wont give you the best gains in power, it will only give you what the kit states. its all about what your future power gain targets are.

 

My goal for now is to get into boost and put down 350-370 with a 3.12 pulley and mild supporting breathing mods (and not destroy the engine).

 

if thats what the kit is designed for then your ss box is what you want to use...for now. until you want more power!

 

^^ The SS box isn't going to give you any more or less than uprev if properly tuned. Since SS doesn't add any safety features and neither does Uprev I would argue your risk of 'blowup' would be the same given similar tune qualities between the two.

The statement about leaning out is complete BS. Under heavy load when you're hitting boost the ECU is in open loop and doesn't make any corrections.

First of all, the kit was never 'designed' around any particular EMS. If comes with a SS box for price/cost reason (it's a cheap EMS), NOT because it is the one you're supposed to use.

Secondly, you NEVER want to use a canned tune even if it comes with the kit. Find a good tuner that is very knowledgeable with a certain EMS, then go with that EMS, or vice versa.

An EMS is only as good as the tuner that tunes it.

 

That is a very wise statement.
So then my question becomes, can any advanced tuner be comfortable with what is suppose to be a simple EMS (SS box) and associated software. Here is Seattle there seems to be a disconnect with those that are familiar with The SS software (mainly mustang people) and those familiar with the VQ35DE.

 

If it were my choice I'd go with Uprev.

1. Less crap to go wrong because it's just reprogramming the stock ECU instead of adding a huge extra point of failure. A piggy pack intercepts every wire between the stock ECU and the car and takes up limited space in your dash, to the point of being crammed in there forcefully.

2. Your tuner knows Uprev. Let him do his thing or find another tuner for your SS.

 

dont get me wrong the SS box is fine to use w/the kit if you are running EVERYTHING to vortech specs. plently of people running off that alone.

i would say go w/osiris becuase it makes your car run soooo much smoother than some other software that is being used to tune our cars aside from the standalone systems.

but either way i would say you are safe w/both but if you can run osiris doet

 

Osiris does come at a signifcant expense (approx $800, internal fuel pump), but may be the way to go. Nothing saying I can't switch to it later also.

Thanks for the input

 

no, any piggy back system is designed for any fi system. i worded that wrong yes, but the tune on it is. and it might actually be safer because they tend to run a little richer to keep temps down.

dont get me wrong i went with a custom tune on my turbo set up, with a turboxs piggyback, but i wanted to push the limits.
the op just wants 350-370 out of it.
i think his ss will be more than adequate for that.


i agree with this statment 'an ems is only as good as the tuner that uses it' BUT IMO a good tuner should be able to tune everything because tuning doesnt change...only programs. all you have to do is read the instructions included.

 

The SS box is pretty primitive as far as tuning goes. And it only tunes certain parameters.

The Osiris is pretty much one of the more advanced tuning devices now. On top of tuning the open loop sections of the ecu, they can tune the closed loop code also.

 

Thanks for the insights,

Jeff92se, sending you a PM