APS banned?
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Hawaii
Guys it was never my intent to say that APS should not pay sponsor fees if they are promoting their product. I certainly agree that it's only fair to those sponsors who pay to advertise their products here (and thus keep this site afloat).
However as I have said before, there is no information being passed on about why something has happened.
Usually when some gets banned it's a warning (written or PM'd) then if there's non compliance a banning. Go to the SoCal section a member was banned there. It was clear to me what is going on and why the banning took place. Everyone knew what the problems were and what to do to take corrective actions.
As I posted before I completely missed this at my350z and the bells only rung in my head on Monday.
I do not think that informing members on why someone is banned is out of line. If they are banned aren't we allowed to know why?
I'm thinking of dropping $12k+ in the next few months on an APS TT kit and I want some security that nothing funky is going on. I think that the money I'm going to lay out entitles me to that right. We're all here because we love the G and if a fellow G/Z-er is holding out information from me/others and I/we lose a crap load of money because of that I'm not going to be happy.
Again the question is why was APS banned?
Sorry guys, but I've got this feeling that this thread is going to get locked in a day or so.
However as I have said before, there is no information being passed on about why something has happened.
Usually when some gets banned it's a warning (written or PM'd) then if there's non compliance a banning. Go to the SoCal section a member was banned there. It was clear to me what is going on and why the banning took place. Everyone knew what the problems were and what to do to take corrective actions.
As I posted before I completely missed this at my350z and the bells only rung in my head on Monday.
I do not think that informing members on why someone is banned is out of line. If they are banned aren't we allowed to know why?
I'm thinking of dropping $12k+ in the next few months on an APS TT kit and I want some security that nothing funky is going on. I think that the money I'm going to lay out entitles me to that right. We're all here because we love the G and if a fellow G/Z-er is holding out information from me/others and I/we lose a crap load of money because of that I'm not going to be happy.
Again the question is why was APS banned?
Sorry guys, but I've got this feeling that this thread is going to get locked in a day or so.
GZire, this thread should not get locked up, we are discusiing the matter at hand as adults and this is what this forum is about.
I agree we should all have many of our questions answered we are all members and we keep this forum alive.
I agree we should all have many of our questions answered we are all members and we keep this forum alive.
Im in the middle on this one. I can see why the paying sponsors would be pissed about APS getting all this free publicity, but as many have pointed out, we all got a LOT of info from Peter.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
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Tinman, the costs for running sites like this are really not that much, and if you consider that 100 people (as you claim) means $3000 which is $250/month, which is FAR less than hosting can cost. Hosting is MAYBE, *MAYBE* $100/month, if it's more then the owner(s)/s is/are getting reamed.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Fort Lauderdale, Fl
Originally Posted by brittain
Im in the middle on this one. I can see why the paying sponsors would be pissed about APS getting all this free publicity, but as many have pointed out, we all got a LOT of info from Peter.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
Also, APS is a Manufacturer. Can you go to APS's website and purchase a single thing directly? If not then it's more of the Distributors role to be the ones that are promoting and paying to do so. For the most part, I thought Peter mostly answered questions. Sure, he did let everyone know when there was something new in the pipeline, but if not Peter, who would have done it then? Is there a US distributor who was the main clearinghouse for information? No? Then who?
We are all enthusiasts and will take information anywhere we can get it. We want what is best for our cars, period. If it was not for Peter's coming on here and informing everyone even about the APS TT kit, how woud we have known and how many would have the Gr3ddy TT Patented motor exploder instead. I know I am just biding my time to gather the scratch to get a TT kit and I want the best and most reliable.
I was previously a 3rd Gen RX-7 owner and on the RX7 b.b. vendors were always telling the community about new things in the pipe line. It was just how everyone expected it to work.
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Just a few comments: In my brief time as a moderator on this site, I've learned a thing or two.
1. The forum admins are VERY TOLERANT of people who voilate the "8 simple rules".
2. The admins ALWAYS allow the posters to find enough rope to hang themselves before stepping in to give them a warning.
3. They ALWAYS give people warnings before any action is taken. This warning usually comes way way way after the warning could have been given due to a #1 above.
4. The admins also have access to a truck load of more information on most subjects (this one included) that the majority of the posters don't have. There is always behind the scenes phone calls, e-mails, PM's, etc... that take place. Heck they even have their own "Administrator's Forum" specifically to discuss issues like this one. Then there is the "Moderator's and Admin Forum" to discuss the issues at a lower level. Don't think that this banning just happened. I'd bet it was discussed quite a bit before a decision was made.
For "us" to speculate as to what happened or to threaten not becoming/remaining Premier Members is not fair because we don't have, nor should we be privy to, the information as to what happened between APS and Kyle's 2 websites.
If APS was banned (for the second time) I guarantee you, without knowing what happened myself, that they overstepped the line many many times after they were warned.
Remember, being an admin isn't only a thankless job, it is a very difficult job! I support this site and EVERY administrator on the decisions they make. Reason being, they're doing the best job that they can and are at least as passionate about this site as anyone else who reads this thread.
1. The forum admins are VERY TOLERANT of people who voilate the "8 simple rules".
2. The admins ALWAYS allow the posters to find enough rope to hang themselves before stepping in to give them a warning.
3. They ALWAYS give people warnings before any action is taken. This warning usually comes way way way after the warning could have been given due to a #1 above.
4. The admins also have access to a truck load of more information on most subjects (this one included) that the majority of the posters don't have. There is always behind the scenes phone calls, e-mails, PM's, etc... that take place. Heck they even have their own "Administrator's Forum" specifically to discuss issues like this one. Then there is the "Moderator's and Admin Forum" to discuss the issues at a lower level. Don't think that this banning just happened. I'd bet it was discussed quite a bit before a decision was made.
For "us" to speculate as to what happened or to threaten not becoming/remaining Premier Members is not fair because we don't have, nor should we be privy to, the information as to what happened between APS and Kyle's 2 websites.
If APS was banned (for the second time) I guarantee you, without knowing what happened myself, that they overstepped the line many many times after they were warned.
Remember, being an admin isn't only a thankless job, it is a very difficult job! I support this site and EVERY administrator on the decisions they make. Reason being, they're doing the best job that they can and are at least as passionate about this site as anyone else who reads this thread.
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From: Hawaii
Neffster thanks for the post and your perspective from being inside the ropes.
I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said. However as far as you item# 4 this is doesn't appear to be the case this time. I've already PM'd one admin (not a moderator, an admin) and he did not know the circumstances behind the banning. I have also PM'd Kyle (Godzilla) and am awaiting an answer.
Again it's not my intent on stirring up trouble, I simply want to know why. I don't know about the rest of you, but the money I'm dropping for a TT kit and accessories isn't chump change to me and I just want some assurances about what's going on. At the very least it'll make me sleep easier at night.
I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said. However as far as you item# 4 this is doesn't appear to be the case this time. I've already PM'd one admin (not a moderator, an admin) and he did not know the circumstances behind the banning. I have also PM'd Kyle (Godzilla) and am awaiting an answer.
Again it's not my intent on stirring up trouble, I simply want to know why. I don't know about the rest of you, but the money I'm dropping for a TT kit and accessories isn't chump change to me and I just want some assurances about what's going on. At the very least it'll make me sleep easier at night.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: SW Houston, TX
Originally Posted by brittain
Im in the middle on this one. I can see why the paying sponsors would be pissed about APS getting all this free publicity, but as many have pointed out, we all got a LOT of info from Peter.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
The difference between APS and intensepower or a lot of the other sponsors is that APS is a manufacturer, whereas most of the others sponsors are distributors. Peter was pushing a product that is a compliment to many of the sponsors. When people decide to go with an APS TT, often they purchase other stuff like gauges, pistons, clutches, etc. All of these parts (including the TT itself) must be purchased somewhere. If the sponsors were smart they would have recognized that APS was becoming the trendy TT of the summer and would have unofficially teamed up with APS. Thats how I got in touch with Sharif and forgedinternals.com. The paying sponsors and APS arent competitors, they are compliments. If I were a sponsor, I wouldnt sit around and complain about all the attention APS was getting, I would have become an APS distributor and jumped on the gravy train.
Couldnt have said it better myself.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Here's Peter's Personal Response to this Issue
Like many others, I was most disappointed to learn that APS was "banned" from this site. Personally, I found Peter's contributions profitable in most cases. Further, although I have not read every one of his posts, I never found anything objectionable in the ones I did read.
Of course he advanced his product. If you made aftermarket turbos to fit G35's, wouldn't you advocate them on a major G35 website?
I have personally been following APS for about two years, watching their TT development. They seem to be the most promising FI option (to me) and as far as I can tell, I rather like the way they do business.
This thread has been filled with speculation and responses to speculation, but few facts. So I wrote to Peter directly and asked him a few questions. Here is what he had to say in a response received today:
Hello Peter,
>Well, I just read the thread about APS being banned on the forced
induction forum. Unfortunately, it is filled with a lot of speculation
and responses to that speculation that further confuse the matter.
I can't see the thread Bill so I have no idea what's being said of
course.
Please allow me to ask you directly:
>Has APS failed to pay any dues or fees required of them by
G35driver.com?
No we have not - Kyle asked me in a pm about 2 months ago if APS would
like to be a sponsor, I then pm him back and asked him to provide
further info on becoming a sponsor on G35 driver.com, he never replied
to my pm from what I remember. APS would have been interested in
supporting the forum in some way.
>Did APS knowingly violate any rules of the forums in which they posted?
No, I can't ever remember being contacted by either an admin person
(other than Kyle) or moderator from G35driver.com. I certainly don't
remember being contacted by a moderator or admin person from
G35driver.com warning me that I have broken any forum rules.
>Was the posting of links or promotional information about APS products
by APS in conflict with or in violation of their membership status at
G35driver.com?
Bill to be honest I don't really know, it's a long time since I've read
any info regarding G35driver.com forum rules, I don't think I have done
anything different than what other people have done, I certainly did not
break any rules on purpose, that's for sure.
Regards
Peter
Of course he advanced his product. If you made aftermarket turbos to fit G35's, wouldn't you advocate them on a major G35 website?
I have personally been following APS for about two years, watching their TT development. They seem to be the most promising FI option (to me) and as far as I can tell, I rather like the way they do business.
This thread has been filled with speculation and responses to speculation, but few facts. So I wrote to Peter directly and asked him a few questions. Here is what he had to say in a response received today:
Hello Peter,
>Well, I just read the thread about APS being banned on the forced
induction forum. Unfortunately, it is filled with a lot of speculation
and responses to that speculation that further confuse the matter.
I can't see the thread Bill so I have no idea what's being said of
course.
Please allow me to ask you directly:
>Has APS failed to pay any dues or fees required of them by
G35driver.com?
No we have not - Kyle asked me in a pm about 2 months ago if APS would
like to be a sponsor, I then pm him back and asked him to provide
further info on becoming a sponsor on G35 driver.com, he never replied
to my pm from what I remember. APS would have been interested in
supporting the forum in some way.
>Did APS knowingly violate any rules of the forums in which they posted?
No, I can't ever remember being contacted by either an admin person
(other than Kyle) or moderator from G35driver.com. I certainly don't
remember being contacted by a moderator or admin person from
G35driver.com warning me that I have broken any forum rules.
>Was the posting of links or promotional information about APS products
by APS in conflict with or in violation of their membership status at
G35driver.com?
Bill to be honest I don't really know, it's a long time since I've read
any info regarding G35driver.com forum rules, I don't think I have done
anything different than what other people have done, I certainly did not
break any rules on purpose, that's for sure.
Regards
Peter
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Bill,
My guess is the "infraction" happened on my350z.com and the banning was a "dual site punishment".
This would explain the statement that where the poster sent a PM to a G35driver administrator and the admin stated that he did not know what took place.
Also, it would be in Peter's best interest to deny, deny, deny, no?
Finally, I too have been following APS rather closely and here's what I've learned. APS has a "seemingly good system" on paper however APS has made mistakes. They sold a system to people who were having their engines rebuilt for high boost (and these people told APS they were going to be running high boost) and APS sold them a TT system telling them they could achieve upwards of 800rwhp. In the end, the systems were boost limited to 12 psi (which is way below what APS advertised to achieve ~800rwhp) and now the people have to spend MORE MONEY on an upgrade kit from APS. That, IMO was STRIKE 1 against APS. They have not offered a FREE replacement kit to these few people and this is what should be done to protect APS "better than stellar" reputation IMO.
Also, APS doesn't have a lot of miles on many different (non APS affiliated) VQ35DE's. I remember a time where ATI was thought to be perfect, that was, until 1/2 the Forced Induction VQ population started blowing engines.
Me, I'm going to sit back and see what unfolds. BTW, is there a similar thread on my350z.com under way? If so, a link here would be nice.
My guess is the "infraction" happened on my350z.com and the banning was a "dual site punishment".
This would explain the statement that where the poster sent a PM to a G35driver administrator and the admin stated that he did not know what took place.
Also, it would be in Peter's best interest to deny, deny, deny, no?
Finally, I too have been following APS rather closely and here's what I've learned. APS has a "seemingly good system" on paper however APS has made mistakes. They sold a system to people who were having their engines rebuilt for high boost (and these people told APS they were going to be running high boost) and APS sold them a TT system telling them they could achieve upwards of 800rwhp. In the end, the systems were boost limited to 12 psi (which is way below what APS advertised to achieve ~800rwhp) and now the people have to spend MORE MONEY on an upgrade kit from APS. That, IMO was STRIKE 1 against APS. They have not offered a FREE replacement kit to these few people and this is what should be done to protect APS "better than stellar" reputation IMO.
Also, APS doesn't have a lot of miles on many different (non APS affiliated) VQ35DE's. I remember a time where ATI was thought to be perfect, that was, until 1/2 the Forced Induction VQ population started blowing engines.
Me, I'm going to sit back and see what unfolds. BTW, is there a similar thread on my350z.com under way? If so, a link here would be nice.
