Registered User
manufacturer or distributor, PAY YOUR FEE. Doesnt matter what you do but your intent and the bottom line is APS is trying to sell their product. You guys are acting as though we are at the mercy of APS. Dont get me wrong but their good guys, very knowledgeable but without us, CUSTOMERS, no seller has anything. APS has given us a lot of information no doubt but only to promote THEIR product. If you have the intent on selling anything, pay your fee or stick to the classified section of this site.
Registered User
Quote:
A good example of how we are only humans afterall and can have different perceptions. I don't have a FI system and have no axe to grind or preference. I also have read every post on every FI thread here, at my350z and the other site....trying to educate myself and make up my mind. I actually have a significantly different perception of these events than Neffster.Originally Posted by neffster
They sold a system to people who were having their engines rebuilt for high boost (and these people told APS they were going to be running high boost) and APS sold them a TT system telling them they could achieve upwards of 800rwhp. In the end, the systems were boost limited to 12 psi (which is way below what APS advertised to achieve ~800rwhp) and now the people have to spend MORE MONEY on an upgrade kit from APS. That, IMO was STRIKE 1 against APS. They have not offered a FREE replacement kit to these few people and this is what should be done to protect APS "better than stellar" reputation IMO.
APS doesn't sell to end-consumers; therefore, they haven't 'sold' to people going for high HP and boost. I haven't seen a post saying our current kit will give you 800HP as is (meaning the parts). What I have seen is detailed discussions about the different turbos between APS and Greddy. And I have seen specific comments about MAF and that the APS turbos can handle the MAF to support up to 800 HP. I have also seen other posts about the fuel system and how it can't handle 800 HP, but that a big fuel system was on the way etc.
What I think has happened is a series of very detailed discussions about specific components of the APS system and what they can and cannot do....along with discussion/theroetical of what they might eventually be able to do when other components are released. APS' clear preferred strategy is to buy and install through APS dealers. Their strategy is to also to develop integrated systems, future ones of which might be able to create this HP. A few people read some of these threads and infer that they can reach these HP because afterall the turbos MAF can theoretically handle up to 800 HP. So they go out and buy an APS kit thinking they can apply the mix and match Greddy strategy to reach higher HP. Most likely they are doing this by buying the kit and then taking it to a performance shop, but one which is either not an APS dealer or has no experience attempting to install a high HP APS solution. The combination of purchaser/tuner believes that they can mix and match to get these high HP and then find out that is not the case...at least not yet. These tuners and people then get pissed off because they think they have been misled....unfortunately they have misled themselves. They get the kit, come up with a modified solution...and then find the actuators get in the way of the high HP solution.
The core issue is that different parties have different customers. The tuner shop wants to satisfy their customer. Some tuners are tuners cause they like to tinker
They will build it, experiment, help the customer go where no customer has gone before. This is not the APS preferred customer. They have released a 400 HP relatively safe total solution. They hope to some day offer a larger HP relatively safe total solution. They aren't keen on tinkering with their solutions because failures will undercut their position. This is not the Greddy solution...which isn't a solution...it's parts. People refer to the Greddy 'kit' but the Greddy 'kit' is a POS as far as 'kits' go. It isn't a 'kit'. It is a collection of parts. Many of the Greddy parts are great parts. They can be mixed and matched with other parts. Together all of these parts can make a great solution. Talented tuners can take these Greddy parts (not kits) and together with their brains they can tinker and developed all sorts of customized solutions to help customers go where no one else goes. It is an entirely different strategy and is not surprising that some consumers and some tuners will run into conflict with APS which has a different strategy. They will then cry foul and lament that future high HP APS solutions will be dependent upon other APS parts. Precisely, exactly...this is the APS business strategy. Mixing, matching and tinkering is not their strategy. Some mix and match tinkerers have a hard time accepting this...why...because THEIR strategy IS to mix and match and tinker.There is no 100% right and wrong in this. It is simply a reflection of the market. Some people want to be Capt Kirk and go where no man..... and most don't. Pick your market.
Anyway, that is my long winded read on the situation.
Registered User
Quote:
APS doesn't sell to end-consumers; therefore, they haven't 'sold' to people going for high HP and boost. I haven't seen a post saying our current kit will give you 800HP as is (meaning the parts). What I have seen is detailed discussions about the different turbos between APS and Greddy. And I have seen specific comments about MAF and that the APS turbos can handle the MAF to support up to 800 HP. I have also seen other posts about the fuel system and how it can't handle 800 HP, but that a big fuel system was on the way etc.
What I think has happened is a series of very detailed discussions about specific components of the APS system and what they can and cannot do....along with discussion/theroetical of what they might eventually be able to do when other components are released. APS' clear preferred strategy is to buy and install through APS dealers. Their strategy is to also to develop integrated systems, future ones of which might be able to create this HP. A few people read some of these threads and infer that they can reach these HP because afterall the turbos MAF can theoretically handle up to 800 HP. So they go out and buy an APS kit thinking they can apply the mix and match Greddy strategy to reach higher HP. Most likely they are doing this by buying the kit and then taking it to a performance shop, but one which is either not an APS dealer or has no experience attempting to install a high HP APS solution. The combination of purchaser/tuner believes that they can mix and match to get these high HP and then find out that is not the case...at least not yet. These tuners and people then get pissed off because they think they have been misled....unfortunately they have misled themselves. They get the kit, come up with a modified solution...and then find the actuators get in the way of the high HP solution.
The core issue is that different parties have different customers. The tuner shop wants to satisfy their customer. Some tuners are tuners cause they like to tinker They will build it, experiment, help the customer go where no customer has gone before. This is not the APS preferred customer. They have released a 400 HP relatively safe total solution. They hope to some day offer a larger HP relatively safe total solution. They aren't keen on tinkering with their solutions because failures will undercut their position. This is not the Greddy solution...which isn't a solution...it's parts. People refer to the Greddy 'kit' but the Greddy 'kit' is a POS as far as 'kits' go. It isn't a 'kit'. It is a collection of parts. Many of the Greddy parts are great parts. They can be mixed and matched with other parts. Together all of these parts can make a great solution. Talented tuners can take these Greddy parts (not kits) and together with their brains they can tinker and developed all sorts of customized solutions to help customers go where no one else goes. It is an entirely different strategy and is not surprising that some consumers and some tuners will run into conflict with APS which has a different strategy. They will then cry foul and lament that future high HP APS solutions will be dependent upon other APS parts. Precisely, exactly...this is the APS business strategy. Mixing, matching and tinkering is not their strategy. Some mix and match tinkerers have a hard time accepting this...why...because THEIR strategy IS to mix and match and tinker.
There is no 100% right and wrong in this. It is simply a reflection of the market. Some people want to be Capt Kirk and go where no man..... and most don't. Pick your market.
Anyway, that is my long winded read on the situation.
+1 Originally Posted by SUD
A good example of how we are only humans afterall and can have different perceptions. I don't have a FI system and have no axe to grind or preference. I also have read every post on every FI thread here, at my350z and the other site....trying to educate myself and make up my mind. I actually have a significantly different perception of these events than Neffster.APS doesn't sell to end-consumers; therefore, they haven't 'sold' to people going for high HP and boost. I haven't seen a post saying our current kit will give you 800HP as is (meaning the parts). What I have seen is detailed discussions about the different turbos between APS and Greddy. And I have seen specific comments about MAF and that the APS turbos can handle the MAF to support up to 800 HP. I have also seen other posts about the fuel system and how it can't handle 800 HP, but that a big fuel system was on the way etc.
What I think has happened is a series of very detailed discussions about specific components of the APS system and what they can and cannot do....along with discussion/theroetical of what they might eventually be able to do when other components are released. APS' clear preferred strategy is to buy and install through APS dealers. Their strategy is to also to develop integrated systems, future ones of which might be able to create this HP. A few people read some of these threads and infer that they can reach these HP because afterall the turbos MAF can theoretically handle up to 800 HP. So they go out and buy an APS kit thinking they can apply the mix and match Greddy strategy to reach higher HP. Most likely they are doing this by buying the kit and then taking it to a performance shop, but one which is either not an APS dealer or has no experience attempting to install a high HP APS solution. The combination of purchaser/tuner believes that they can mix and match to get these high HP and then find out that is not the case...at least not yet. These tuners and people then get pissed off because they think they have been misled....unfortunately they have misled themselves. They get the kit, come up with a modified solution...and then find the actuators get in the way of the high HP solution.
The core issue is that different parties have different customers. The tuner shop wants to satisfy their customer. Some tuners are tuners cause they like to tinker
They will build it, experiment, help the customer go where no customer has gone before. This is not the APS preferred customer. They have released a 400 HP relatively safe total solution. They hope to some day offer a larger HP relatively safe total solution. They aren't keen on tinkering with their solutions because failures will undercut their position. This is not the Greddy solution...which isn't a solution...it's parts. People refer to the Greddy 'kit' but the Greddy 'kit' is a POS as far as 'kits' go. It isn't a 'kit'. It is a collection of parts. Many of the Greddy parts are great parts. They can be mixed and matched with other parts. Together all of these parts can make a great solution. Talented tuners can take these Greddy parts (not kits) and together with their brains they can tinker and developed all sorts of customized solutions to help customers go where no one else goes. It is an entirely different strategy and is not surprising that some consumers and some tuners will run into conflict with APS which has a different strategy. They will then cry foul and lament that future high HP APS solutions will be dependent upon other APS parts. Precisely, exactly...this is the APS business strategy. Mixing, matching and tinkering is not their strategy. Some mix and match tinkerers have a hard time accepting this...why...because THEIR strategy IS to mix and match and tinker.There is no 100% right and wrong in this. It is simply a reflection of the market. Some people want to be Capt Kirk and go where no man..... and most don't. Pick your market.
Anyway, that is my long winded read on the situation.
As a courtesy update to the rest of you I'm going to make this post and more than likely it's the last I'll make in this thread.
We have APS's side of it (or at least their side of it from a 3rd party).
We, or at least I, do not have Kyle's side of it. PM'd him on 06/14, it's 06/17 and I don't have an answer yet. That's his right and I know when I'm being blown off so I doubt we'll ever get his side.
If you do not specifically know the reason, please hold your opinions to yourself. There's been a lot of speculation of what's gone on and I know of two people for certain that know (one's responded indirectly the other hasn't). Hey if an admin tell's me to ask Kyle because he doesn't know, I don't think anyone else here that is a non-admin would know.
This being said, this is now a dead issue because I think everything that can be said has been already been said.
We have APS's side of it (or at least their side of it from a 3rd party).
We, or at least I, do not have Kyle's side of it. PM'd him on 06/14, it's 06/17 and I don't have an answer yet. That's his right and I know when I'm being blown off so I doubt we'll ever get his side.
If you do not specifically know the reason, please hold your opinions to yourself. There's been a lot of speculation of what's gone on and I know of two people for certain that know (one's responded indirectly the other hasn't). Hey if an admin tell's me to ask Kyle because he doesn't know, I don't think anyone else here that is a non-admin would know.
This being said, this is now a dead issue because I think everything that can be said has been already been said.
Registered User
Quote:
Please tell me where I can get 300 Gb monthly transfer on a dedicated server at a secure facility for $100/month and I'll sign up today and pay you a $100 finders fee.Originally Posted by AdamsInfiniti
Tinman, the costs for running sites like this are really not that much, and if you consider that 100 people (as you claim) means $3000 which is $250/month, which is FAR less than hosting can cost. Hosting is MAYBE, *MAYBE* $100/month, if it's more then the owner(s)/s is/are getting reamed.
--Steve
Guest
You think this site uses 300GB of bandwidth per month and requires a dedicated server? Please. If they were hosting video or games, sure, they might use the bandwidth, but you still don't need a dedicated server for a FORUM. The biggest load they use is for pictures. Even so, for just the 300GB statement, you show me that this site uses that much, and I'll retract my statement.
Registered User
Quote:
Of course he advanced his product. If you made aftermarket turbos to fit G35's, wouldn't you advocate them on a major G35 website?
I have personally been following APS for about two years, watching their TT development. They seem to be the most promising FI option (to me) and as far as I can tell, I rather like the way they do business.
This thread has been filled with speculation and responses to speculation, but few facts. So I wrote to Peter directly and asked him a few questions. Here is what he had to say in a response received today:
Hello Peter,
>Well, I just read the thread about APS being banned on the forced
induction forum. Unfortunately, it is filled with a lot of speculation
and responses to that speculation that further confuse the matter.
I can't see the thread Bill so I have no idea what's being said of
course.
Please allow me to ask you directly:
>Has APS failed to pay any dues or fees required of them by
G35driver.com?
No we have not - Kyle asked me in a pm about 2 months ago if APS would
like to be a sponsor, I then pm him back and asked him to provide
further info on becoming a sponsor on G35 driver.com, he never replied
to my pm from what I remember. APS would have been interested in
supporting the forum in some way.
>Did APS knowingly violate any rules of the forums in which they posted?
No, I can't ever remember being contacted by either an admin person
(other than Kyle) or moderator from G35driver.com. I certainly don't
remember being contacted by a moderator or admin person from
G35driver.com warning me that I have broken any forum rules.
>Was the posting of links or promotional information about APS products
by APS in conflict with or in violation of their membership status at
G35driver.com?
Bill to be honest I don't really know, it's a long time since I've read
any info regarding G35driver.com forum rules, I don't think I have done
anything different than what other people have done, I certainly did not
break any rules on purpose, that's for sure.
Regards
Peter
so...how come admins are not commenting on this thread?Originally Posted by exagorazo
Like many others, I was most disappointed to learn that APS was "banned" from this site. Personally, I found Peter's contributions profitable in most cases. Further, although I have not read every one of his posts, I never found anything objectionable in the ones I did read.Of course he advanced his product. If you made aftermarket turbos to fit G35's, wouldn't you advocate them on a major G35 website?
I have personally been following APS for about two years, watching their TT development. They seem to be the most promising FI option (to me) and as far as I can tell, I rather like the way they do business.
This thread has been filled with speculation and responses to speculation, but few facts. So I wrote to Peter directly and asked him a few questions. Here is what he had to say in a response received today:
Hello Peter,
>Well, I just read the thread about APS being banned on the forced
induction forum. Unfortunately, it is filled with a lot of speculation
and responses to that speculation that further confuse the matter.
I can't see the thread Bill so I have no idea what's being said of
course.
Please allow me to ask you directly:
>Has APS failed to pay any dues or fees required of them by
G35driver.com?
No we have not - Kyle asked me in a pm about 2 months ago if APS would
like to be a sponsor, I then pm him back and asked him to provide
further info on becoming a sponsor on G35 driver.com, he never replied
to my pm from what I remember. APS would have been interested in
supporting the forum in some way.
>Did APS knowingly violate any rules of the forums in which they posted?
No, I can't ever remember being contacted by either an admin person
(other than Kyle) or moderator from G35driver.com. I certainly don't
remember being contacted by a moderator or admin person from
G35driver.com warning me that I have broken any forum rules.
>Was the posting of links or promotional information about APS products
by APS in conflict with or in violation of their membership status at
G35driver.com?
Bill to be honest I don't really know, it's a long time since I've read
any info regarding G35driver.com forum rules, I don't think I have done
anything different than what other people have done, I certainly did not
break any rules on purpose, that's for sure.
Regards
Peter
according to that post, i dont think APS should be banned(?)
Registered User
This APS Manufacturer...
Information vs Retailing...
I'd see a reason why if any of the sponcer felt it was unfair for them that APS was retailing anything of their APS products. But if APS was simply sharing information, it would be no different than me sharing information on their behalf.
Was APS retailing anything? I dont know, if they were - they were rightfully banned in all fairness to paying sponcers. But if all they were offering is information on their products 1st hand, I see no problem in them continuing on.
If a Manufacturer rep, say someone like Greddy, HKS or, Stillen would log into the forums and started sharing the wealth of information of all the products they have. should they get banned? They're not paying a dime, yet their products are retailed by sponcered sites. Would that still be fair to the paying sponcers?
Information vs Retailing...
I'd see a reason why if any of the sponcer felt it was unfair for them that APS was retailing anything of their APS products. But if APS was simply sharing information, it would be no different than me sharing information on their behalf.
Was APS retailing anything? I dont know, if they were - they were rightfully banned in all fairness to paying sponcers. But if all they were offering is information on their products 1st hand, I see no problem in them continuing on.
If a Manufacturer rep, say someone like Greddy, HKS or, Stillen would log into the forums and started sharing the wealth of information of all the products they have. should they get banned? They're not paying a dime, yet their products are retailed by sponcered sites. Would that still be fair to the paying sponcers?
Registered User
Is it just me or are the letters APS in red bold caps in every post now? I know I was up late but I cant be that tired still! Anyone?