ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
It's chill dude. Just words from the horse's mouth since I went out and listened to Rod Millen give a quick course on the kit during stillen day. I have to say it was impressive but I at $4995 for the kit with out the intercooler, requiring a new hood, and installation labor for the warranty. I think that isn't very much bang for the buck. Sorry if I sounded bent but some people here like to give others a bunch of **** without checkin their facts first. That just irks me alittle. I think I may wait for a well tested TT setup though. Peace. [img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]
-Jason
Laser Red '03 6MT
-Jason
Laser Red '03 6MT
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
RedRok, If you speak to different people the 'screw/lobe' type superchargers tend to heat the air more than 'centrifugal' superchargers do, so at 7 psi you lose hp due to the extra heat that is generated.
Rambo, to answer your question about a Turb Boost Controler and a wastegate, Yes and No.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img] Short lesson on turbos and wastgates and you will see why I say this. A turbo without a wastegate would run amok and build boost to the limit of its Air Ratio design until it burns up, but long before that happens your engine would have quit working. The way a turbo is controlled is by the wastegate routing the exhaust gas around the turbine wheel of the turbo, making it not spin fast enough to create boost pressure. Inside the wastegate though is a spring and one or two orifices that have intake vacuum lines connect to one or both of them. As the turbo spins and start making boost this vacuum line through the connection to the intake or controller applies or bleeds off pressure to one side of a diaphram connected to the rod that open and closes the opening bleeding the exhaust around the turbine. Think of it like and it looks like a exhaust valve. Whew! There is more but that is the gist of it.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Rambo, to answer your question about a Turb Boost Controler and a wastegate, Yes and No.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img] Short lesson on turbos and wastgates and you will see why I say this. A turbo without a wastegate would run amok and build boost to the limit of its Air Ratio design until it burns up, but long before that happens your engine would have quit working. The way a turbo is controlled is by the wastegate routing the exhaust gas around the turbine wheel of the turbo, making it not spin fast enough to create boost pressure. Inside the wastegate though is a spring and one or two orifices that have intake vacuum lines connect to one or both of them. As the turbo spins and start making boost this vacuum line through the connection to the intake or controller applies or bleeds off pressure to one side of a diaphram connected to the rod that open and closes the opening bleeding the exhaust around the turbine. Think of it like and it looks like a exhaust valve. Whew! There is more but that is the gist of it.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
Cali,
A 70 shot on top of the Supercharger or Turbo may or may not adversely affect your engine, it will depend on the design and internals. I would not personally do it without upgrading the following.
1- Headgsket
2- Stronger and Higher temp valves
3- Forged pistons
4- Stronger Connecting rods and bearing
I hope I am wrong and the VQ is overdesigned like the TT Supras and can take more and more and more.....[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
A 70 shot on top of the Supercharger or Turbo may or may not adversely affect your engine, it will depend on the design and internals. I would not personally do it without upgrading the following.
1- Headgsket
2- Stronger and Higher temp valves
3- Forged pistons
4- Stronger Connecting rods and bearing
I hope I am wrong and the VQ is overdesigned like the TT Supras and can take more and more and more.....[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
I hope I am wrong and the VQ is overdesigned like the TT Supras and can take more and more and more.....
<hr></blockquote>
if the engine is built half as well as the 6 speed transmission is, it wont be able to stand that 370HP for more than a year...
face it, our 6 MTs SUUUUUUCCCCK... I had mine replaced the other day, and then infiniti did me the pleasure of wrecking my car while they had it... anybody have legal advice? they messed up the back bumper cover, knocked the trunk out of alignment and messed up all of the foam under the bumper... the also messed up my shifter ***, center console, and passenger seat while replacing the tranny...
I hope I am wrong and the VQ is overdesigned like the TT Supras and can take more and more and more.....
<hr></blockquote>
if the engine is built half as well as the 6 speed transmission is, it wont be able to stand that 370HP for more than a year...
face it, our 6 MTs SUUUUUUCCCCK... I had mine replaced the other day, and then infiniti did me the pleasure of wrecking my car while they had it... anybody have legal advice? they messed up the back bumper cover, knocked the trunk out of alignment and messed up all of the foam under the bumper... the also messed up my shifter ***, center console, and passenger seat while replacing the tranny...
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
Sorry to hear we have yet again another dealer HORROR[img]/w3timages/icons/shocked.gif[/img] story.
Bunch of lawyers on here though so you should get some comment on options you have if any.
I agree with you on the 6MT concerns.[img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Bunch of lawyers on here though so you should get some comment on options you have if any.
I agree with you on the 6MT concerns.[img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
check it out, first one on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2420314899
They are jacking up the price on eBay when they sell it 1g cheaper from the manafacturer itself lol..

-Blk/Blk G35c
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2420314899
They are jacking up the price on eBay when they sell it 1g cheaper from the manafacturer itself lol..

-Blk/Blk G35c
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
Stillen's numbers on the website are rated at the flywheel and not at the wheels. Please note: they don't say it is at the wheels or supply the dyno sheet. Stillen has already shown their dyno sheet at the 350Z/G35 day and there are pictures of it on the net. Here is the dyno(courtesy of the 350Z guys).
http://www.my350z.com/gallery/albuq26/acv
Basically multiply their at the wheels numbers by 1.15 and you get their flywheel numbers. Here is a dyno at 7 psi of boost of the ATI kit(also courtesy of the 350Z guys:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...threadid=31281
Again, multiple by 1.15 to get flywheel numbers. You will get 424 hp. Figure close to 450+ hp with headers and an exhaust. The gains from exhaust mods are much greater on a boosted car than an NA car. I picked up 24 hp at the wheels from a Y-pipe on the Maxima with a supercharger.
So, how does the ATI kit make so much more power than the Stillen kit with only slightly more boost? This is very simple. Roots superchargers like the Magnusen are the least efficient form of forced induction that exists. The best of their compressors are only at 60% efficiency. They heat the air a lot more when compressing it and hotter air is less dense. So you actually have less air in the engine for the same boost level. The Procharger compressor in the ATI kit has a 77% efficency. So it is already 17% ahead. It also has an intercooler which will drop the intake charge about 100 degrees and add at least another 10%. The only way Stillen could put an intercooler in with their kit would be to package it between the heads and the supercharger like Saleen does. This would raise the supercharger even higher. Remember that already, the Stillen kit requires a new hood or the original to be modified. An intercooler also typically adds $1000-1500 to a kit. Last, roots superchargers take a lot more power out of an engine to drive. Remember that superchargers spin off the accessory drive of the engine. That means the engine has to drive the supercharger so there are additional drivetrain losses. The way the 2 superchargers make power are different. Roots superchargers make boost very early and carry the same boost level to redline. A centrifugal supercharger like the ATI makes more boost as rpms rise. There is typically little gain off idle. The Stillen has the edge until 3300 rpms. From 3300 rpms up, the ATI leaves it in the dust. So, unless you are short shifting at 3300 rpms, we know who will win this one.
I also asked ATI about the dyno today. If you look at the dyno, the torque curve is very close to flat for most of the rev range. It is from 300 to 323 lb-ft from 3800 to 6400 rpms. This in not typically characteristic of these types of superchargers, but this is intentional. Typically the torque curves of centrifugal superchargers are very peaky. This is the only kit they make with a P-1SC-2 supercharger. The compressor wheel in the supercharger is specifically designed to boost lower end performance and have a lower boost ramp on the high end. This wheel was only developed in the last year, where as the roots compressor in the Stillen kit was designed 20+ years ago. Don't think because of the design that this wheel isn't capable of making more boost. It can support as much as 30 psi and up to 800 hp.
Here are a couple last notes. The supercharger in the ATI kit is self-contained so it does not require an oil line from the engine for lubrication. It does have its own oil reservoir built-in that uses a special low-friction oil. The oil has to be changed every 6000 miles as maintenance, but it is easy to do. The entire kit is bolt-on and can be completely removed without any evidence it was on the car. You can't say the same for the Stillen unless you buy another hood and keep your old one to swap back out.
04' G35 Coupe(on order)
6-sp Diamond Graphite/Willow w/Premium
http://www.my350z.com/gallery/albuq26/acv
Basically multiply their at the wheels numbers by 1.15 and you get their flywheel numbers. Here is a dyno at 7 psi of boost of the ATI kit(also courtesy of the 350Z guys:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...threadid=31281
Again, multiple by 1.15 to get flywheel numbers. You will get 424 hp. Figure close to 450+ hp with headers and an exhaust. The gains from exhaust mods are much greater on a boosted car than an NA car. I picked up 24 hp at the wheels from a Y-pipe on the Maxima with a supercharger.
So, how does the ATI kit make so much more power than the Stillen kit with only slightly more boost? This is very simple. Roots superchargers like the Magnusen are the least efficient form of forced induction that exists. The best of their compressors are only at 60% efficiency. They heat the air a lot more when compressing it and hotter air is less dense. So you actually have less air in the engine for the same boost level. The Procharger compressor in the ATI kit has a 77% efficency. So it is already 17% ahead. It also has an intercooler which will drop the intake charge about 100 degrees and add at least another 10%. The only way Stillen could put an intercooler in with their kit would be to package it between the heads and the supercharger like Saleen does. This would raise the supercharger even higher. Remember that already, the Stillen kit requires a new hood or the original to be modified. An intercooler also typically adds $1000-1500 to a kit. Last, roots superchargers take a lot more power out of an engine to drive. Remember that superchargers spin off the accessory drive of the engine. That means the engine has to drive the supercharger so there are additional drivetrain losses. The way the 2 superchargers make power are different. Roots superchargers make boost very early and carry the same boost level to redline. A centrifugal supercharger like the ATI makes more boost as rpms rise. There is typically little gain off idle. The Stillen has the edge until 3300 rpms. From 3300 rpms up, the ATI leaves it in the dust. So, unless you are short shifting at 3300 rpms, we know who will win this one.
I also asked ATI about the dyno today. If you look at the dyno, the torque curve is very close to flat for most of the rev range. It is from 300 to 323 lb-ft from 3800 to 6400 rpms. This in not typically characteristic of these types of superchargers, but this is intentional. Typically the torque curves of centrifugal superchargers are very peaky. This is the only kit they make with a P-1SC-2 supercharger. The compressor wheel in the supercharger is specifically designed to boost lower end performance and have a lower boost ramp on the high end. This wheel was only developed in the last year, where as the roots compressor in the Stillen kit was designed 20+ years ago. Don't think because of the design that this wheel isn't capable of making more boost. It can support as much as 30 psi and up to 800 hp.
Here are a couple last notes. The supercharger in the ATI kit is self-contained so it does not require an oil line from the engine for lubrication. It does have its own oil reservoir built-in that uses a special low-friction oil. The oil has to be changed every 6000 miles as maintenance, but it is easy to do. The entire kit is bolt-on and can be completely removed without any evidence it was on the car. You can't say the same for the Stillen unless you buy another hood and keep your old one to swap back out.
04' G35 Coupe(on order)
6-sp Diamond Graphite/Willow w/Premium
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
I really enjoy reading the information that you guys post about these mods for our cars. I am learning, but a lot of it is still going over my head. I know the basic concepts of a supercharger, turbos, cold-air, exhaust, etc.. But could someone break it down in laymans terms for me:
How much life would be taken out of a G35 if you strapped one of these on and drove it hard?
What other mods would have to be made to lessen the stress that this much power would obviously put on the car?
G35Coupe B/B 6MT Aero/Premium
How much life would be taken out of a G35 if you strapped one of these on and drove it hard?
What other mods would have to be made to lessen the stress that this much power would obviously put on the car?
G35Coupe B/B 6MT Aero/Premium
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
I have seen the light! Thanks Loren. I now understand the differance between the two. The ATI definately sounds like the better deal. Thanks for the info. Peace. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]
-Jason
Laser Red '03 6MT
-Jason
Laser Red '03 6MT
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
GREAT POST
thanks from the dullards
All I know is I want a warranty ... thats all I know ..
I dont care how much it costs etc...
I want the warranty ..
because when I go to sell my baby to get the 05 GTR (PRAYING) that a regular joe is not scared of a modded car without a warranty.
PERIOD
later man..
thanks from the dullards
All I know is I want a warranty ... thats all I know ..
I dont care how much it costs etc...
I want the warranty ..
because when I go to sell my baby to get the 05 GTR (PRAYING) that a regular joe is not scared of a modded car without a warranty.
PERIOD
later man..
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
When you sell the car, take off the Charger and they wouldn't be the wiser!
Robert
G35 Coupe 5AT, DP, Tire and Wheel Pkg., Aluminum Pedals, Clear Corners, missing turbo
Robert
G35 Coupe 5AT, DP, Tire and Wheel Pkg., Aluminum Pedals, Clear Corners, missing turbo
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
Great post Loren. And I actually prefer that the SC kicks in at 3300RPMs+. This car has enough off-the-line power to spin the wheels at launch anyways - 3300RPMs is right about where the wheels take firm hold of the road, so it's a perfect time to kick in. Now if only I didn't kill the warranty by installing this baby!
Re: ATI Supercharger kit available for G35 Coupe!
This thing has a warranty....really?.....wow......heh, heh, heh!
"Use the Forced Induction Luke!"
-Jedi
Ordered 4/03: 2003 G35C, 6MT, Blk/Blk. Loaded ETA ~ 6/03
"Use the Forced Induction Luke!"
-Jedi
Ordered 4/03: 2003 G35C, 6MT, Blk/Blk. Loaded ETA ~ 6/03



