Just Blew My Stock Motor With APS TT!
#46
08-10-2006 | 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by KPierson
Can you list some 11s cars that cost under $50K brand new?
I think the closest you will get is the GTO or the Vette (as far as NA goes). But, neither of them will run 11s stock.
I think the closest you will get is the GTO or the Vette (as far as NA goes). But, neither of them will run 11s stock.
#47
08-10-2006 | 01:44 PM
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Ohio G Club Member
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Originally Posted by KPierson
Brian,
I just read about your misfortune, sorry to hear about this.
What is the current status of the car?
I'm not sure if I ever told you but I have a complete long block sitting in my garage.
I just read about your misfortune, sorry to hear about this.
What is the current status of the car?
I'm not sure if I ever told you but I have a complete long block sitting in my garage.
It's still sitting in my garage with a puddle of blood, I mean oil underneath it. I see it every day just sitting there. It's killing me! I'm still gathering funds and deciding on the build route I want to take, either sleeving or racing heads or maybe both. So this long block is from your original motor? Pm me the details and how much $.
#48
08-10-2006 | 01:51 PM
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Ohio G Club Member
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Originally Posted by exagorazo
Why not find a long block (assuming yours is beyond repair) and ship it down to SGP Racing for their $3700 short block upgrade.
http://sgpracing-store.stores.yahoo.net/sgpravqmo.html
You might end up sinking $6-7K in it, but you will probably end up with a rather reliable long term solution.
The realities are that a loss has been incurred and it will end up costing you no matter what you do. If you can swing the cash flow, you would probably like this result the best - and you might even be inclined to squeeze out a few more WHP!
I went down to GRD and rode in their APS G35. They made some rather confident sounding remarks about the OEM block being able to handle WHP in your range, but I didn't buy it. Then I wrote to Peter at APS and asked his opinion about the limits of the OEM engine. He told me they don't recommend anything over 380 WHP with the stock engine.
As tough as it is to swallow, it seems necessary to budget an additional $5K in a TT install just for an engine rebuild. That pushes the realistic price of a "do it right the first time" TT to at least $16K (cooling can't be ignored either). These blown engine stories are far too commonplace and heartbreaking to pretend that the risk is worth it.
Hope you can make the best decision for your situation!
http://sgpracing-store.stores.yahoo.net/sgpravqmo.html
You might end up sinking $6-7K in it, but you will probably end up with a rather reliable long term solution.
The realities are that a loss has been incurred and it will end up costing you no matter what you do. If you can swing the cash flow, you would probably like this result the best - and you might even be inclined to squeeze out a few more WHP!
I went down to GRD and rode in their APS G35. They made some rather confident sounding remarks about the OEM block being able to handle WHP in your range, but I didn't buy it. Then I wrote to Peter at APS and asked his opinion about the limits of the OEM engine. He told me they don't recommend anything over 380 WHP with the stock engine.
As tough as it is to swallow, it seems necessary to budget an additional $5K in a TT install just for an engine rebuild. That pushes the realistic price of a "do it right the first time" TT to at least $16K (cooling can't be ignored either). These blown engine stories are far too commonplace and heartbreaking to pretend that the risk is worth it.
Hope you can make the best decision for your situation!
I'm considering several different tuners for this build, including GRD. I've just been trying to educate myself on the best plan for the most reliability/whp and value. I wish the 380whp number would of been strongly advised to me back when I had it installed but I knew no matter what I was taking a risk with the stock block.
If I could of done it over, there's no doubt I would of spent the extra 5K for forged pistons and rods.
#52
08-10-2006 | 03:20 PM
#53
08-12-2006 | 01:27 AM
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From: Chesapeake Bay, MD.
Originally Posted by KPierson
I think you'll hard pressed to find a $50K car that can outperform a fully built VQ35. I smoke stock vettes all day long, no problems, on LOW boost. Crank up the boost and I slaughter stock Z06s.
For most people it's not about just having a fast car. It's about taking a stock car and getting the most out of it. If I, for example, bought a $50K car I would still plan on putting $30K in to it to make it better then it was from the factory.
The G35 is a really good platform because you get a pretty good deal on the car. I love the stock handling and supsension, and the VQ is a start towards performance. I basically view the G as a great handling car that only lacks power. Spend a few $$$ and build the motor and you'll be left with a great car.
For most people it's not about just having a fast car. It's about taking a stock car and getting the most out of it. If I, for example, bought a $50K car I would still plan on putting $30K in to it to make it better then it was from the factory.
The G35 is a really good platform because you get a pretty good deal on the car. I love the stock handling and supsension, and the VQ is a start towards performance. I basically view the G as a great handling car that only lacks power. Spend a few $$$ and build the motor and you'll be left with a great car.
Your rationale is good, but it all depends on what you want. I ran a 10 sec 2000 Camaro SS (N/A) for less than 35K (bought the car new). So if you're talking modified cars, you can run significantly faster than a built VQ for WAY under 50K. And you can do it N/A, let alone FI (There are currently TONS of N/A LS1's in the 10's). IMO, if you're going to heavily modify, start with a larger, stronger V8. And the reasons go beyond just motor strength. Most of the fast stock V8's also come with beefier trans, rears, etc than the G.
I'm in the beginning stages of doing just that with my Charger SRT8.
Oh, and by the way, the bone stock Z06 in Sept C&D ran 11.7 @ 123, not to mention a skidpad of 1.01, and a top speed of 198 mph. Slaughter Z06's ????
Last edited by DP03; 08-12-2006 at 01:49 AM.
#54
08-12-2006 | 10:57 AM
His arguement was to buy a stock car faster then a modified VQ35. There are plenty of cars you can buy and modify that will be faster then a built VQ35, but none in stock form. I would agree that there are 10s MODIFIED LS1s, but I would also imagine that there are quite a few people who have blown up LS1s trying to run 10s in them.
On 7psi I dyno'd at 407whp. Still waiting on my 12psi dyno, but it should be around 525whp on pump gas.
On 7psi I dyno'd at 407whp. Still waiting on my 12psi dyno, but it should be around 525whp on pump gas.
#55
08-12-2006 | 12:37 PM
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From: Chesapeake Bay, MD.
Originally Posted by KPierson
His arguement was to buy a stock car faster then a modified VQ35. There are plenty of cars you can buy and modify that will be faster then a built VQ35, but none in stock form. I would agree that there are 10s MODIFIED LS1s, but I would also imagine that there are quite a few people who have blown up LS1s trying to run 10s in them.
On 7psi I dyno'd at 407whp. Still waiting on my 12psi dyno, but it should be around 525whp on pump gas.
On 7psi I dyno'd at 407whp. Still waiting on my 12psi dyno, but it should be around 525whp on pump gas.
I don't really understand the comparison between a fully modified G35 and other stock cars, because that argument would apply to any vehicle made (e.g., you can make a Ford Festiva or Honda Civic wicked fast with enough mods).
Have you run the car at the track at 7 psi yet?
#56
08-12-2006 | 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by DP03
I don't really understand the comparison between a fully modified G35 and other stock cars, because that argument would apply to any vehicle made (e.g., you can make a Ford Festiva or Honda Civic wicked fast with enough mods).
Originally Posted by Texasscout
So, in reality, what it comes down to is this; Do you want a very fast $35K car that costs $50K or do you want a very fast $50K car? 
Originally Posted by DP03
Have you run the car at the track at 7 psi yet?
#57
08-12-2006 | 01:25 PM
#58
08-13-2006 | 11:22 AM
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From: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Texasscout
And all I was saying is "do you want to put up with the headaches or drive". Sure a highly modded car is fun. But just look at all the trouble people have with them. The only way I would have a car like your talking about is IF it was NOT my daily driver.
Those things that are necessary to run a car at any streetable power level are are not secret. They are well known and they can be achieved with reliability.
The people that have problems (and I don't say this critically) are those who either move ahead without having the necessary information or who are trying to cut corners thinking they are saving money. These approaches WILL lead to headaches, it's just a matter of time. Unfortunately, wishful thinking will not hold either an engine or a transmission together. Power is expensive and trying to end run that reality is more expensive yet.
Cheaper is almost never less expensive in the long run, and that applies to a lot more than cars!
Last edited by exagorazo; 08-13-2006 at 11:39 AM.
#59
08-13-2006 | 12:33 PM
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From: Texas
Bill is right.
Do it right the first time (build bottom end, etc.) and you will only cry once.
As far as DP's (does that mean what I think it means...lol) comments about performance bang for the buck, you will always get more from an American V8, assuming you don't want to actually turn or travel in luxury.
Do it right the first time (build bottom end, etc.) and you will only cry once.
As far as DP's (does that mean what I think it means...lol) comments about performance bang for the buck, you will always get more from an American V8, assuming you don't want to actually turn or travel in luxury.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; 08-13-2006 at 01:00 PM.
#60
08-13-2006 | 04:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by Texasscout
So, in reality, what it comes down to is this; Do you want a very fast $35K car that costs $50K or do you want a very fast $50K car?
Now, as far as extracting the most performance out of a car, it is no secret that American muscle cars are more mod-friendly, so I doubt you'd need to dump $2000 for headers/test pipes to get a measly 20hp at the wheels, like you would with the G. In the end, it boils down to preference, I think all that Texasscount meant is that he prefers a car that's fast out of the box instead of building a car that would live in the shop.
Last edited by Finiti35; 08-13-2006 at 04:38 PM.