I need nos
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I need nos
anybody use nos yet?. I want to do a custom setup but dont know much about it. Is it really safe? can i do better than a 50 shot safely? Wet or dry? difference between the 2? Ahh, so many questions plz help guys. Thanks
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From: Rowland Heights CA
Re: I need nos
Can I run nitrous on my car?
Nitrous can be run on pretty much any car, whether it be stock or a fully built NA beast. If you have an older car or one with many miles on it, you will want to run a compression check. The numbers for each cylinder should be pretty close to each other and within Honda specs. For example, if you had 240, 238, 242, and 245 on a JDM H22A then it would be safe to run nitrous on that engine.
Secondly, aftermarket chips, ECUs, and Venom control modules that advance the ignition timing are not safe to use with nitrous. You may be able to use an MSD ignition timing controller or a Jacob's nitrous mastermind to retard the timing only when you are spraying, but it is very important to follow the rules for retarding your ignition timing when you are spraying nitrous. I will discuss these rules later in this post.
Finally, nitrous loves high compression, but the nitrous fuel ratio has to be tuned very precisely. 100 octane fuel will make it much easier to run high compression and nitrous, but it can be done to an extent on premium pump gas and good tuning.
Dry, Single fogger, and Direct Port: What's the difference?
Dry Kits
Dry kits have a single nitrous nozzle plumbed into the intake tube(Mount the nozzle at least 6 in. from the TB) and they only spray nitrous into the intake. The extra fuel is provided by the injectors, when the ECU notices the extra oxygen molecules in the intake air charge. Dry kits can only be jetted up to a 75 shot because the nitrous is not distributed evenly to each cylinder. The injectors give an even amount of fuel to each cylinder, but because some cylinders are getting more than others you will get a dangerous lean condition in that cylinder. Running lean leads to predetonation, and predetonation is what blows motors.
Single Fogger Kits
A single fogger kit has one fogger nozzle mounted on the intake tube(Also 6in. from the TB). However, both fuel and nitrous are sprayed through this nozzle. This kit has a fuel solenoid and a nitrous solenoid, where the dry kit has just a nitrous solenoid. The idea behind this kit, is that spraying fuel with the nitrous will fix the lean condition that plagues dry kits that are jetted above a 75 shot. The problem with this is that fuel is heavier than nitrous and therefore it won't be able to make the turn to the first cylinder after the TB as well as the nitrous does. Honda intake manifolds are biased towards certain cylinders, which will still give uneven nitrous and fuel distribution when usinf a single fogger kit. Some people swear by these kits, but personally I'd rather plumb in a direct port kit for anything higher than a 75 shot.
Direct Port Kits
Direct port kits spray nitrous and fuel through single fogger nozzles on each intake runner. This is the only kit that can provide perfectly even nitrous and fuel distribution. This kit incorporates one nitrous solenoid and one fuel solenoid, just like the Single Fogger Kit. The only drawbacks to this kit is that it is hard to hide, and impossible to hide from someone who knows alot about nitrous. Also when you want to increase your shot, you have to change 8 jets as opposed to two on the Single Fogger Kit. A direct port kit can be jetted to as low as a 75 shot and to high as your motor can hold (Providing your solenoids can flow that much nitrous and fuel)
What do I need to run X shot?
First of all, you must always run premium fuel(91+ octane).
50 shot
All that you need is a set of one step colder copper NGK plugs or a set of Zex plugs(Two steps colder than stock) and you can keep the ignition timing at the stock timing.
60 shot
You need the colder plugs and you will want to retard your ignition timing by a degree or two. You may want to look into getting an aftermarket ignition and spark plug wires.
75 shot
Retard your ignition timing by 3 degrees, pick up an ignition, colder plugs, spark plug wires, and look into getting a stronger clutch because your stock one will be slipping very badly. If you find that you are running lean or rich pick up a fuel pressure regulator. If you are running a direct port kit, then you can pick up an Apexi VAFC to control your fuel map.
100+ shot
While you can get away with running a 100 shot on a stock motor, I'm not going to recommend it. If you plan on running any shot higher than a 100 shot, you will need to beef up your bottom end. Forged pistons nd forged connecting rods are the first step. I have heard that it is necessary to resleeve the block in order to run forged pistons on H22As. Whether you believe this or not, is up to you. I figure that if you are going to build a block, you may as well go all out and resleeve it as well, but that's just me. Everything that you need for a 75 shot you will also need for a 100+ shot. It will also be necesarry to upgrade your fuel pump to a 225 lph pump. Walboro, NOS, and Holley are all good choices for fuel pumps. A preogressive controller will also be necessary to control the nitrous flow, so that you don't smoke the tires for the first 1/8 mile. NOS, NX, TNT, and Jacob's Electronics all make nice progressive controllers. 2 step colder plugs will help ward off predetonation, and it will be necessary to retard the timing 2 degrees for every 50 shot.
What brand should I get?
NOS
NOS has been in the nitrous buisness for many years and has made a very good name for themselves. They produce single fogger kits, direct port kits, and dry kits. If you need a new solenoid, a nitrous line, nozzles, distribution blocks, etc. NOS will make a replacement part.
NX
NX is very similar to NOS. It is a good company, that makes quality parts, and they have been around for a while now.
Zex
Zex is the simplest dry kit that you can buy. The nitrous solenoid is housed in a purlpe control module. This makes it an easier install, but it also makes it so that you can't buy little individual parts to fix your kit, such as solenoid plungers,springs, etc. like you can with NOS and NX.
Venom
Venom is an expensive dry kit. It incorporates a computer program to control the nitrous flow and it also uses a program to watch your AF ratio, so that you don't run lean. The reason that I don't like Venom, is that you can only jet a dry kit up to a 75 shot, so you you don't put down enough power to have any really big traction issues. Basically, the computerized nitrous flow controls are unnecessary. Secondly, a fuel pressure safety switch from NOS and some dyno time will provide just as much insurance that you won't run lean as the Venom kit, and it will do it for cheaper.
Friends don't let friends drive stock
Nitrous can be run on pretty much any car, whether it be stock or a fully built NA beast. If you have an older car or one with many miles on it, you will want to run a compression check. The numbers for each cylinder should be pretty close to each other and within Honda specs. For example, if you had 240, 238, 242, and 245 on a JDM H22A then it would be safe to run nitrous on that engine.
Secondly, aftermarket chips, ECUs, and Venom control modules that advance the ignition timing are not safe to use with nitrous. You may be able to use an MSD ignition timing controller or a Jacob's nitrous mastermind to retard the timing only when you are spraying, but it is very important to follow the rules for retarding your ignition timing when you are spraying nitrous. I will discuss these rules later in this post.
Finally, nitrous loves high compression, but the nitrous fuel ratio has to be tuned very precisely. 100 octane fuel will make it much easier to run high compression and nitrous, but it can be done to an extent on premium pump gas and good tuning.
Dry, Single fogger, and Direct Port: What's the difference?
Dry Kits
Dry kits have a single nitrous nozzle plumbed into the intake tube(Mount the nozzle at least 6 in. from the TB) and they only spray nitrous into the intake. The extra fuel is provided by the injectors, when the ECU notices the extra oxygen molecules in the intake air charge. Dry kits can only be jetted up to a 75 shot because the nitrous is not distributed evenly to each cylinder. The injectors give an even amount of fuel to each cylinder, but because some cylinders are getting more than others you will get a dangerous lean condition in that cylinder. Running lean leads to predetonation, and predetonation is what blows motors.
Single Fogger Kits
A single fogger kit has one fogger nozzle mounted on the intake tube(Also 6in. from the TB). However, both fuel and nitrous are sprayed through this nozzle. This kit has a fuel solenoid and a nitrous solenoid, where the dry kit has just a nitrous solenoid. The idea behind this kit, is that spraying fuel with the nitrous will fix the lean condition that plagues dry kits that are jetted above a 75 shot. The problem with this is that fuel is heavier than nitrous and therefore it won't be able to make the turn to the first cylinder after the TB as well as the nitrous does. Honda intake manifolds are biased towards certain cylinders, which will still give uneven nitrous and fuel distribution when usinf a single fogger kit. Some people swear by these kits, but personally I'd rather plumb in a direct port kit for anything higher than a 75 shot.
Direct Port Kits
Direct port kits spray nitrous and fuel through single fogger nozzles on each intake runner. This is the only kit that can provide perfectly even nitrous and fuel distribution. This kit incorporates one nitrous solenoid and one fuel solenoid, just like the Single Fogger Kit. The only drawbacks to this kit is that it is hard to hide, and impossible to hide from someone who knows alot about nitrous. Also when you want to increase your shot, you have to change 8 jets as opposed to two on the Single Fogger Kit. A direct port kit can be jetted to as low as a 75 shot and to high as your motor can hold (Providing your solenoids can flow that much nitrous and fuel)
What do I need to run X shot?
First of all, you must always run premium fuel(91+ octane).
50 shot
All that you need is a set of one step colder copper NGK plugs or a set of Zex plugs(Two steps colder than stock) and you can keep the ignition timing at the stock timing.
60 shot
You need the colder plugs and you will want to retard your ignition timing by a degree or two. You may want to look into getting an aftermarket ignition and spark plug wires.
75 shot
Retard your ignition timing by 3 degrees, pick up an ignition, colder plugs, spark plug wires, and look into getting a stronger clutch because your stock one will be slipping very badly. If you find that you are running lean or rich pick up a fuel pressure regulator. If you are running a direct port kit, then you can pick up an Apexi VAFC to control your fuel map.
100+ shot
While you can get away with running a 100 shot on a stock motor, I'm not going to recommend it. If you plan on running any shot higher than a 100 shot, you will need to beef up your bottom end. Forged pistons nd forged connecting rods are the first step. I have heard that it is necessary to resleeve the block in order to run forged pistons on H22As. Whether you believe this or not, is up to you. I figure that if you are going to build a block, you may as well go all out and resleeve it as well, but that's just me. Everything that you need for a 75 shot you will also need for a 100+ shot. It will also be necesarry to upgrade your fuel pump to a 225 lph pump. Walboro, NOS, and Holley are all good choices for fuel pumps. A preogressive controller will also be necessary to control the nitrous flow, so that you don't smoke the tires for the first 1/8 mile. NOS, NX, TNT, and Jacob's Electronics all make nice progressive controllers. 2 step colder plugs will help ward off predetonation, and it will be necessary to retard the timing 2 degrees for every 50 shot.
What brand should I get?
NOS
NOS has been in the nitrous buisness for many years and has made a very good name for themselves. They produce single fogger kits, direct port kits, and dry kits. If you need a new solenoid, a nitrous line, nozzles, distribution blocks, etc. NOS will make a replacement part.
NX
NX is very similar to NOS. It is a good company, that makes quality parts, and they have been around for a while now.
Zex
Zex is the simplest dry kit that you can buy. The nitrous solenoid is housed in a purlpe control module. This makes it an easier install, but it also makes it so that you can't buy little individual parts to fix your kit, such as solenoid plungers,springs, etc. like you can with NOS and NX.
Venom
Venom is an expensive dry kit. It incorporates a computer program to control the nitrous flow and it also uses a program to watch your AF ratio, so that you don't run lean. The reason that I don't like Venom, is that you can only jet a dry kit up to a 75 shot, so you you don't put down enough power to have any really big traction issues. Basically, the computerized nitrous flow controls are unnecessary. Secondly, a fuel pressure safety switch from NOS and some dyno time will provide just as much insurance that you won't run lean as the Venom kit, and it will do it for cheaper.
Friends don't let friends drive stock
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From: San Diego, CA
Re: I need nos
That's a pretty good, detailed article, you've got there... but I'm curious why you mention Honda as the example motor on a G35 forum? I imagine most of our readers would be interested in the specifics of how the VQ35 can handle nitrous.
2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter
2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter
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Re: I need nos
definetly concerned about the vq35 engine. do these same rules apply to this type of intake manifold and tb setup. ill get a list of the parts in the kit im looking at for an opinion.
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Re: I need nos
If you read the previous posts, juicedcoupe is running 125 shot with no problems and nosg35 is running 100 shot, I believe. Both people are using stock fuel pump and no additional mods like AFC or nitrous mastermind, just a rpm window switch (optional) and 1 step colder (100 shot) and 2 steps colder (125 shot). I just ordered the same setup up as juicedcoupe, zex wet kit, msd window switch, and spx-kentmore fuel adapter. As soon as they're in, I'll be goin for the hundred shot. If your really worried, don't buy nitrous. It is safe, I've run it on several imports before the G. If your ****, you can measure that A/F ratio when spraying to be sure you are running where you need to be. Or frequently check your plugs. I don't believe the G can use a dry kit because of the lack of vacuum fuel pressure regulator (not confirmed), but everyone is running a wet kit. People's clutches are holding up with 100, but juicedcoupe's started slip after four back to back runs at the track, but after it cooled, it was fine.
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Re: I need nos
Yep, people are using the stock ECU. It is handling it fine. Since nitrous is onlyused for a short period of time, the ECU doesn't really have the time to make any drastic changes to timing, A/F, etc... So far no one has had issues going with the Zex (except for support issues from Zex tech support and that was only one person, everybody else likes the kit, but hates their spark plugs). LIke I said earlier, I just ordered the same set up as most of the other people running n20 on the G, zex wet kit (82021), denso 1 step colder plugs (or NGK 1 step colder copper) (I have the part numbers if you need them, but you can search the other forums as well), and a SPX-Kentmore adapter to easily tap into the fuel system. Without the SPX Kentmore, you'll have to splice into the fuel line, with the Kentmore, you just undo two bolts and put the adapter right in. This makes it easy to remove in case you need to take it to the dealer. Also, buy 350Z intake tube and use that for your nitrous install, it'll give you a few extra ponies when natural, but will allow you to replace it with your stock one (untouched) when you want to take it back to the dealer for anything. If not, they;ll know you had nitrous by the hole in the intake from the nitrous nozzle. Other than that you can get a rpm window switch to make sure you don't hit the rev limiter with the nitrous spraying, but this is an optional saftey measure. Good luck,.
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Re: I need nos
the reason i asked about the ecu is im putting the technosquare flash in. i dont want anything they change there to adversely affect the n2o. basically timing is my concern there.
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Re: I need nos
SEANP, you need to have the TechnoSquare ECU programmed for use with the nitrous or your next thread will be "I need a new engine." The ECU upgrade in itself will increase the timing, which is not good for nitrous. The ECU, however, can be programmed to be used with nitrous.
I am currently running a 140 hp shot to the wheels with 2 step colder iridium plugs. Aside from the clutch issue described by berelin, I have had no issues with the kit.
Be weary: the advertised hp shot ratings have been overstated; for example 150 shot has been 117 hp, 200 shot has been 140 hp. A few of us have also found that the car runs slightly lean using the recommended jetting; this is possibly due to the fact that we have not retarded the timing. You may be okay if the TS ECU is programmed to dump some additional fuel, but you may want to invest in some dyno time to tune the nitrous setup. We have had to increase the size of the fuel jet.
ZEX wet kit 140 WHP
ZEX remote opener, bottle heater
Denso iridium 2 steps
Z tube, Amsoil filter
JIC-Magic traction rods
BFG Drag Radials 265/40/18
12.85 @ 108.5
I am currently running a 140 hp shot to the wheels with 2 step colder iridium plugs. Aside from the clutch issue described by berelin, I have had no issues with the kit.
Be weary: the advertised hp shot ratings have been overstated; for example 150 shot has been 117 hp, 200 shot has been 140 hp. A few of us have also found that the car runs slightly lean using the recommended jetting; this is possibly due to the fact that we have not retarded the timing. You may be okay if the TS ECU is programmed to dump some additional fuel, but you may want to invest in some dyno time to tune the nitrous setup. We have had to increase the size of the fuel jet.
ZEX wet kit 140 WHP
ZEX remote opener, bottle heater
Denso iridium 2 steps
Z tube, Amsoil filter
JIC-Magic traction rods
BFG Drag Radials 265/40/18
12.85 @ 108.5
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juicedcoupe?
juice, thanks for the assistance you've given me. I got everything ordered, now just waiting. The SPX-Kentmore adapter won't be coming in until mid-to-late october. They said they were out of stock. So I'll have to wait until then to hook it all up and give it a try. I have searched on forums for the jet settings and have come up with several ratings, could you confirm what you have bene running for the 100 and 125 shot. I had people saying 52 N20, and anywhere between 26 and 31 for fuel. For 125, 54 N20 32 fuel. Can you post your results, i.e. where you were lean and what worked for the different shots you tried? I think it would be helpful. Also, any words of wisdom on the Denso's Iridium versus NGK standard plugs.
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Re: juicedcoupe?
The kit they are starting with is a standard nex kit. THe differences will be they want to put the injectors directly to the intake manifold and there will be six injectors.(one for each cylinder) To add to the safety of it they are adding a maximizer and then all the happy b.s toys such as bottle warmers and such. Sorry if i have too many questions im new to having a car that i wanted to go faster so i really dont know where to begin. All of your opinions and answers are greatly appreciated
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Re: juicedcoupe?
berelin, when you say NGK standard, do you mean platinum? It is not recommended to use platinum plugs with nitrous, though I know someone who is doing so successfully. I personally believe in the iridiums and have used them for a few years now with both turbo and N2O applications...they are good plugs.
I've played with so many jet combos, I can't really remember the exact findings. For 117 whp, I believe you'll need 54/30. Don't try 52/26 without a dyno - that combo has proven to be lean on a G...scary lean.
A friend of mine has been going through the nitrous highs and lows with me; perhaps he has been keeping better track of the different jet combinations. I will PM him and ask if he could post any further info in this thread. As I stated in a previous post, though, your absolute best bet would be to dyno tune for the nitrous.
SEANP, direct port injection is great; I personally chose the adapter route because I want to be able to remove all traces of nitrous quickly should the need arise to do so (any trip to the dealer).
Spray ya' later.
ZEX wet kit 140 WHP
ZEX remote opener, bottle heater
Denso iridium 2 steps
Z tube, Amsoil filter
JIC-Magic traction rods
BFG Drag Radials 265/40/18
12.85 @ 108.5
I've played with so many jet combos, I can't really remember the exact findings. For 117 whp, I believe you'll need 54/30. Don't try 52/26 without a dyno - that combo has proven to be lean on a G...scary lean.
A friend of mine has been going through the nitrous highs and lows with me; perhaps he has been keeping better track of the different jet combinations. I will PM him and ask if he could post any further info in this thread. As I stated in a previous post, though, your absolute best bet would be to dyno tune for the nitrous.
SEANP, direct port injection is great; I personally chose the adapter route because I want to be able to remove all traces of nitrous quickly should the need arise to do so (any trip to the dealer).
Spray ya' later.
ZEX wet kit 140 WHP
ZEX remote opener, bottle heater
Denso iridium 2 steps
Z tube, Amsoil filter
JIC-Magic traction rods
BFG Drag Radials 265/40/18
12.85 @ 108.5
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From: Baltimore,Md
Re: juicedcoupe?
Got your pm Juicedcoupe. I looked all over for my old jet combo's but couldn't find them probably because I was in a hurry to get to work. I'll look for them when I get home. He is right though, 52/26 was not a good set up for me. The fuel jet should at least be a 28 or 29 to be sure. I'm currently running 150 shot which is 54/30 I believe. I have yet to dyno and will when I get a chance. Best advice I could give is to make sure you dyno when running this much hp. Every motor is not exactly the same. That 52/26 combo was perfect for someone else that I knew but was bad for my car. It's just like any car that gets forced induction, have to dyno to make sure the a/f is perfect. Good luck! Hey juiced, ready to sell me those 200hp jets yet?
Edretti
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6mt Loaded Brillant Silver
http://www.cardomain.com/id/edretti
Edretti
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6mt Loaded Brillant Silver
http://www.cardomain.com/id/edretti
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Re: juicedcoupe?
if i am not mistaking i remember reading somewhere that some lawsuit made car dealers have to be able to prove that the aftermarket work is what caused a problem to deny you warrenty work. i.e if your power window stops working its not because of nitrous. is there anybody that can verify that. read it a while ago cant remember the source, [censored] coulld have even dreamed about it. BTW they found away around drilling the intake manifold. They just need to fabricate a spacer to raise the manifold slightly higher than a half inch. Im hearing several stories on 150 shot with pump gas isnt that what usually makes nitrous dangerous?