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Fixing abrupt oversteer at high speed

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Old 11-19-2006, 11:02 AM
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Fixing abrupt oversteer at high speed

I have a G35 sedan with sport suspension. I notice at relative high speed cornering, the rear end sometimes steps out almost too abruptly which was really scary. A couple of times when I made a 80+ turn on the freeway, I feel like the weight of the car resting almost entirely on either the left or rear tire depending whether I turn right or turn left.

I am thinking of install a pair of after market anti sway bar hopefully to fix this somewhat.

Does anyone had any experience with this?
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:03 PM
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A set of better tires should do...
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:33 PM
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Sway bars would work, but be careful - stiff sways and soft suspension often make the situation worse.
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 04:05 PM
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sounds like an alignment problem to me, or tire wear. Stock sport suspension has a lot of understeer before going into oversteer mode.
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 04:10 PM
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Tires, tire pressures, alignment to a lesser degree.
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sukairain
Sway bars would work, but be careful - stiff sways and soft suspension often make the situation worse.
And also stiff sways, stiff suspension but with bad tires would also make the situation worse.
No matter how good the suspension is, it's still the four tires that are touching the ground.
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 05:30 PM
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I'm having trouble visualizing the situation. Highways generally have very gradual turns. We're talking about one of those, right?

You should only experience oversteer if you're heavy on the gas while turning. The proper fix for this is a lighter foot on the gas in turns, just enough to maintain speed. You should only begin to accelerate as you start to straighten out.
 
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh
I'm having trouble visualizing the situation. Highways generally have very gradual turns. We're talking about one of those, right?

You should only experience oversteer if you're heavy on the gas while turning. The proper fix for this is a lighter foot on the gas in turns, just enough to maintain speed. You should only begin to accelerate as you start to straighten out.
Not nessecary. When getting of a freeway off-ramp at around 80+mph, i start with slight braking, right turn with my foot off of the gas, and all of a sudden the rear left tire/suspension gave up momentarily, which is a little too abrupt than I would like, with very little warning. I could correct it but a little progression would help.

I hope the a little stiffer anti sway bar, maybe I could feel the rear end breaking loose a little earlier.

But not just off-ramp, on some of the down-hill moutain drive, a slight jab on the brake will slightly break loose the rear end too.
 

Last edited by LudwigB; 11-19-2006 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:34 AM
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What was the ramp rated for? Maybe your just driving to fast.
 
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:36 AM
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Sounds like you're doing what is known as "trail braking." Here's a good discussion of it:

http://www.getfaster.com/Techtips/Physics23.html

In general, trail braking, which is continuing to brake after you've started to turn, will cause any car to oversteer. This is why driving classes generally teach people to finish their braking before entering a turn. It does sound like the G35 is touchier than most cars when using this technique.

My understanding is that this is a matter of suspension geometry, so there's probably not much you can do other than doing less braking while turning.

Firmer front springs would probably have more of an effect than a larger rear sway, as trail braking creates oversteer by shifting weight off the rear tires, not by overloading them.
 
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh
Sounds like you're doing what is known as "trail braking." Here's a good discussion of it:

http://www.getfaster.com/Techtips/Physics23.html

In general, trail braking, which is continuing to brake after you've started to turn, will cause any car to oversteer. This is why driving classes generally teach people to finish their braking before entering a turn. It does sound like the G35 is touchier than most cars when using this technique.

My understanding is that this is a matter of suspension geometry, so there's probably not much you can do other than doing less braking while turning.

Firmer front springs would probably have more of an effect than a larger rear sway, as trail braking creates oversteer by shifting weight off the rear tires, not by overloading them.
What I notice is that the G35 doesn't like abrupt (or even a little abrupt) turn in. The car probably prefers you guide it through the turn in rather than making it turn direction quickly even through a 40mhp corner.

The G35 has a higher initial body roll than other cars I've driven but once it settles down, it grips pretty well. Maybe this initial roll that induces the initial oversteer. Well, just my guess.
 

Last edited by LudwigB; 11-20-2006 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:23 PM
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Honestly after reading your description I think the what you need to do is change your driving habit. What you described above (moderatly high speed turn in, throttle lift, trail braking) is exactly what I would do on a track when I want to induce braking oversteer into a decreasing radius corner. It's kind of like drifting, and you initiate it with weight shifting to the front outside tire. The G35 (especially sedan) does this more than normal vehicles, (53:47 weight distribution, FR, long wheelbase, narrow footprint width compared to length) but that's perhaps it's saving grace when it comes to tight tracks.

Like above poster mentioned - slow down before you exit the freeway, brake in a straight line, and then turn smoothly.

Hope that helps and keep the VDC on.
 
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Old 11-20-2006, 03:09 PM
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It's no secret that the G is relatively heavy. While most of that is up front, she does have a big enough @$$ to carry some momentum. Be smooth and make her look light on her feet.

The sways helped my '05 6MT feel tighter and increased the overall cornering limit... ...but I'm not sure that it changed the transition for the better. I'm sure it's even more abrupt now, but harder to reach unintentionally.
 

Last edited by GT-Ron; 11-20-2006 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 11-20-2006, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GT-Ron
It's no secret that the G is relatively heavy. While most of that is up front, she does have a big enough @$$ to carry some momentum. Be smooth and make her look light on her feet.

The sways helped my '05 6MT feel tighter and increased the overall cornering limit... ...but I'm not sure that it changed the transition for the better. I'm sure it's even more abrupt now, but harder to reach unintentionally.
What's your anti sway bar setting? I've read with Stillen bar, most people seem to be satisfied with med-med setting.
 
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Old 11-20-2006, 04:45 PM
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I went with the NISMO non-adjustable. Pretty much the same basic OEM characteristics but a higher level of grip. It feels more balanced overall, with the tendency to understeer taken down several notches.
 


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