what floats my boat is that mere mortals can also afford higher end sports cars
but cant even get out of the way of their own butts on the race track...
While devotees like some of us are happily out lapping them with lessor sports cars...
anyone can yank out their wallet.... leaning how to drive is the best upgrade on the
planet

 

Totally agree. But even the money bags with their nice cars have to start somewhere.

And whenever I've asked someone with experience which upgrade is most important for the track: brakes. Not HP.

 

I was a little low on the GT-R price. Drive one off the lot and you're looking at $92,735. Those big MBs and BMWs in addition to offering performance offer very high end interiors. The GT-R is really a high performance 2 seat beast that would not appeal to MB, BMW high end drivers.

 

Agreed. I've been in the GT-R and I've been in a good many 3 series and the GT-R definitely has that Nissan cheap interior. I have not been in the latest GT-R so I can't say. The GT-R dash is also configured like a video game, which has no appeal to me. It seems childish.

On the other hand, one of the recent BMW worshipping auto mags was a bit down on the latest 335i interior quality. The executive class BMW interiors are of highest quality I'm assuming....I've certainly never been in a late model 7 series.

And the 07 and up G coupes have a far superior interior quality compared to the 06 and earlier coupes. I think this could translate into the G/GT-R combo and would be just fine. Not in the class with the giant executive boats but on par with the 3 and 5 series.

Anyway, it was all just a thought. World class performance and great looks for under $100k. Seems like magic to me.

 

nissan could make a luxury car comparable to bmw or porsche with GT-R performance and sell it in the same price range as and m3 and such but it's unlikely they would sell as well because nissan isn't established in the high end performance and luxury market, same for infiniti which is entry level luxury, if you are interested in an m3 or a 911 you probably aren't considering an infiniti, if you're someone who knows cars and can see the comparable performance and luxury, that's one thing but that isn't a big enough market to justify the costs of production, also, as much as I love infiniti, it just isn't as much of a status symbol as a bmw or porsche, even the corvette is a status symbol in its own right

 

Well that's my whole point. I'm talking about Infiniti breaking into that market with the assets they already posses. The remarkable thing about the GT-R is that it competes at a super car performance levels at a price point that makes the big names cringe. Infiniti might not be after that market, but the IPL program indicates that they are.

You may be right, I have zero real knowledge about Nissan/Infiniti's production costs. But it seems to me that there would be very little additional production costs. The R&D is done. It would be mostly a matter of wrapping a GT-R drivetrain in an Infiniti designed body. All of the production elements are already in place.

Agreed. I may not represent the average buyer....in fact I'm sure I don't...but status symbols are meaningless to me. If Kia made a coupe to compete with the 3 series for thousands less, I'd be the first in line. To me there is a huge appeal to buying a lesser priced, less prestigious car that would dominate the status symbols.

 

Well, I was saying they were younger, and my guess is they are younger than the average G owner. However, I didn't make any suggestion about them also being blue collar, that's your assessment. Younger people as a general rule make less money than us middle-aged types, and the older you are, the more likely you'll have a professional or white collar job.

Thank you for proving my point. People who can afford to spend $92K on a car are very unlikely to buy a GT-R or a suped up Coupe when they can get an E63 AMG for the same money, or a C63 AMG for alot less. Or a BMW 550 or M5, an Audi S6, a Carrera S, or even a Panamera. All of which have outstanding performance, significantly nicer interiors, and light years more prestige than any Nissan or Infiniti.

And as I said, if someone was smart, rather than buy a GT-R, they'd buy a standard G35, put $15K-$20K into it, and have 600+ HP going to the wheels, which is more than a GT-R or any special G version Infiniti would put out.

 

Agreed. I may not represent the average buyer....in fact I'm sure I don't...but status symbols are meaningless to me. If Kia made a coupe to compete with the 3 series for thousands less, I'd be the first in line. To me there is a huge appeal to buying a lesser priced, less prestigious car that would dominate the status symbols.[/QUOTE]

yeah I figured you were talking about what you want and I agree with your taste but that's really not enough to justify to production of said car

 

I stopped giving a **** when he said that 911s and M3s are not beautiful.


That 600hp G still wouldn't be as fast as a GT-R. People with money don't want to buy cars they want to mess with. All the guys I know that have high end sports cars and exotics only put exhausts and maybe wheels on them. A few of them actually track their cars so they get different brake pads and tires, but that's about it. A guy in a GT-R, or a C2/4S doesn't care that he can get a G and make it have 600hp. It has no appeal to them. You put that 600hp G next to a bone stock E92 M3 and it won't have any appeal to me either. By itself it's great, but you put it in higher class company and it will just be a Nissan with no warranty.

 

GT-Rs performance levels don't make any big names cringe, because the big names sell their cars based on more than just pure numbers. You honestly think the GT-R is taking away sales from Porsche, AMG, BMW's M division, Maserati, AM, or all the other "big names"? It's a great car, don't get me wrong, and it's very fast, but the last 3 people I know that bought a car in that price range didn't even consider it.

Best example of this is the new M3 vs Mustang GT. The new Mustang GT performes very close to the M3, but do you honestly think anyone in their right mind that can afford the new M3 would consider buying a Mustang GT?

 

Well no ****. You're talking about two different groups of people. You can't compare the two. There's the high-end exotic sport car people who don't do a whole lot to their cars, and then there's the tuner scene who buy a stock car and mod it, pumping up to tens and thousands of dollars into it. Of course someone with a high-end car isn't going to pay much attention to a souped up Honda or Nissan. Same thing with many tuners out there; although they might have a high amount of respect for Ferraris, Lambos, etc, if they were given $200,000, many would probably buy a stock "modest" car and put the rest of the money into modding it.

Yeah, my Nissan might be without warranty and is "cheap" compared to those super cars, but at least I can say I put in countless hours of work and research into making it "my own." If you gave me a choice between a high-end car and $100,000, I'd take the money and throw it into a project car. 90% of the Ferrari, Porche, Lambo, etc owners will have the exact same everything as the other guy (except for maybe wheels and paint color), but you can put a line of 100 modded Nissans next to each other and the chances of one being exactly the same as another is slim.

 

Didn't prove your point at all. The GT-R has superior performance to all of these. THAT is the point.



That is not smart. In fact, its really stupid. Horsepower is only a small part of what makes a car perform well and a stock GT-R would still have far superior performance than a 600 HP G35 which would be constantly breaking because the car was not made for 600 HP. By the time you made it capable of actually handling the 600 hp (different traction control, true clutch based limited slip, beefier tranny, wider tires, better clutch, better fly wheel, the list goes on and on forever) you are in it for more than $20K, not to mention the depreciation (the car would carry zero value as anything but a part out). And then, after all that, it still would not perform as well as the GT-R, which is all wheel drive. So no, not smart. Like dumping money down a rat hole.

 

You are correct. I am not suggesting that the GT-R or my G/GT-R dream car would appeal to ANY tuners out there. It would not be intended for that crowd. It would be intended for someone who wanted a beautiful super car for 1/3 the price of an average super car.

THAT is my whole point. A beautiful car that performs significantly better than anything in its price range, be it BMW, Porsche or Merc, but performs at the level of high end 'vette, Ferrari, Lambo, Astin-Martin. "Tuners" would clearly not be part of the target market.

 

It certainly makes them cringe when they see their cars lose in car mag and TV show competitions. Yes, that's a lot of fluff but the advertising cache' is priceless.

Regardless, that is not my point. The Mustang GT is selling well. It makes no difference if it is taking market share from BMW. This does not have to be a market share issue.

 

Agree.
Disagree (and I know you said it to spark some discussion).

I think there's a well-defined line here where guys -- white collar or blue -- will enhance the car's performance (i.e handling, not so much power) and will individualize their cars to look OEMish, WITHOUT going across that line into the extensive mods like boost that can lead to problems. The mods are in no way ghetto or redneck -- check my mod list, you won't find a single one -- though I tend to agree the higher-end owners will not go for, say Z springs (more likely expensive coilovers) or more likely want to buy most of their performance off the showroom floor, have 'the shop' add the rest, and have the same shop fix it when it breaks.

I think the IPL will be sufficient for most typical Infiniti buyers who want something with a little more performance and exclusivity while maintaining warranty and not have to get one's hands dirty.

I also think Infiniti could play in the luxury supercar space with a toned-down Essence sporting a GT-R engine, but perhaps there's no economic reason for them to do so. We enthusiasts might appreciate it, but will buy very few. Most higher-end buyers who would go for an M3 or Porsche want that name, and would not 'settle' for a mere Infiniti.