**NEED .02's LIKE NOW!!!** NEW TRANNY GOING IN!!
*Update
Car still with Dealer.
The tranny is installed w/ new Clutch; Clutch Plate; Flywheel; Throw Out Bearing (aka Release Bearing); Pilot Brushing
I went ALL OEM.
Did not have enough time to make a decision on JWT FW and the "chatter" that is associated w/ it. I don't think I had enough time to even get the part in much less if I did choose it. My "guy" @ the dealership said in the beginning that when they get the old tranny out, they will inspect the other parts, call me for advise on what to do and expect to slap it all back together somewhat quickly. I believed him, b/c I know they are not going to just have her sitting up in the jacks all day long with her **** hanging out so to speak. Plus if they wanted to move her back into the parking garage, they would have to push her, and I don't trust those tech's as far as I can throw them about being gentle w/ my baby. Well, as far as DIRT and GRIM goes. I had oily hand prints on the back end of my car once and had them wash the entire car for that crap!
It's sad too, considering we are paying for the luxury branding service. But, they've done too much damage (all replaced mind you) to her in the past. As soon as they gave me their .02 on the other parts, I told them I would call back in 30 and make a decision. Thus...the rest of the story about getting all new parts (all oem).
I'm still going to shop for an aftermarket FW now, just b/c I learned a little bit about them from this experience. I might just purchase one and 'house' it until I need/want to replace this new FW they are installing...
They charged me only $100 for labor. I thought it would be a good idea to take advantage of the low labor cost.
Either way, I'm sure to be happy.
Last I heard from them, the tech was placing the shifter back on and straightening it out.
I should get the car back tomorrow and will definitely post an update on how it all feels (handles)(Rides) etc etc,,,
I'm going to ask the Tech's about a break-in period and see what THEY say. I'm just curious. I trust YOU ALL over the dealership any day on facts about this car, but I want to see if they have anything to say to me.
**ALSO IS THERE ANY WAY TO TELL IF THEY SLAPPED A REBUILT TRANNY IN MY RIDE, OR IF IT IS IN FACT BRAND NEW LIKE THEY STATED?? IN OTHER WORDS, I SHOULD BE GETTING AN 06' or 07' MODEL TRANNY INSTALLED CORRECT??**
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
Car still with Dealer.
The tranny is installed w/ new Clutch; Clutch Plate; Flywheel; Throw Out Bearing (aka Release Bearing); Pilot Brushing
I went ALL OEM.
Did not have enough time to make a decision on JWT FW and the "chatter" that is associated w/ it. I don't think I had enough time to even get the part in much less if I did choose it. My "guy" @ the dealership said in the beginning that when they get the old tranny out, they will inspect the other parts, call me for advise on what to do and expect to slap it all back together somewhat quickly. I believed him, b/c I know they are not going to just have her sitting up in the jacks all day long with her **** hanging out so to speak. Plus if they wanted to move her back into the parking garage, they would have to push her, and I don't trust those tech's as far as I can throw them about being gentle w/ my baby. Well, as far as DIRT and GRIM goes. I had oily hand prints on the back end of my car once and had them wash the entire car for that crap!
It's sad too, considering we are paying for the luxury branding service. But, they've done too much damage (all replaced mind you) to her in the past. As soon as they gave me their .02 on the other parts, I told them I would call back in 30 and make a decision. Thus...the rest of the story about getting all new parts (all oem).
I'm still going to shop for an aftermarket FW now, just b/c I learned a little bit about them from this experience. I might just purchase one and 'house' it until I need/want to replace this new FW they are installing...
They charged me only $100 for labor. I thought it would be a good idea to take advantage of the low labor cost.
Either way, I'm sure to be happy.
Last I heard from them, the tech was placing the shifter back on and straightening it out.
I should get the car back tomorrow and will definitely post an update on how it all feels (handles)(Rides) etc etc,,,
I'm going to ask the Tech's about a break-in period and see what THEY say. I'm just curious. I trust YOU ALL over the dealership any day on facts about this car, but I want to see if they have anything to say to me.
**ALSO IS THERE ANY WAY TO TELL IF THEY SLAPPED A REBUILT TRANNY IN MY RIDE, OR IF IT IS IN FACT BRAND NEW LIKE THEY STATED?? IN OTHER WORDS, I SHOULD BE GETTING AN 06' or 07' MODEL TRANNY INSTALLED CORRECT??**
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
Last edited by WhiteonWheat; Feb 20, 2007 at 07:53 PM.
**Update
NIGHTMARE, NIGHTMARE, NIGHTMARE
Where do I even start...jeeeeezzz!!!
Ok, let me break it down in steps:
1.) Go to the dealership, chit chat, blah blah w/ the service dude. My ride pulls up outside.
2.) Walk up to the car and first thing I noticed was a nice GASH in my passenger side door!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, this is like the 6th time this dealership has *F&$#ED my car up. LORD HELP ME PLEASE! I of course start reading out the 'riot act' to the guys telling them exactly how I felt. They say, they will fix. I say, let me drive the car and then we'll talk exterior.
3.) Open the driver door. F&$K!!!!!! I had nice black marks all over my interior door piece. This happens every single time I come in for service! They cleaned it all off. It's that black sole crap from mechanic's boots. What did I buy guys, a Ford???????? Jeez!
IT GETS WORSE MUCH, MUCH WORSE:
4.) I crank up the car and try and move it. The car SHUTTERS VIOLENTLY and stalls. WTF!?!?!?! I try again and get it to move, but the HARD SHUTTER is still there!
5.) I get out of the dealers lot and merge into traffic, coming to an immediate stop.
6.) When the light turns green and traffic starts to move, I try to get the car to go and the SHUTTER is still there. Is it the new CLUTCH/CLUTCH PLATE/FLYWHEEL/THROW OUT BEARING,,,,what!?!?!? I push it to the back of my mind and think to ask them when I get back, if it's b/c the brand new parts need to "BREAK IN"?
7.) Start to get going now, I shift into 2nd...Hmmm, much more smooth! I start to think everything is gravy now...nah..think again.
8.) I shift into 3rd and feel an immediate "KICK"/"BUMP", like the tranny wasn't sure if it wanted to throw the gear shifter right out of 3rd and into Netural??
9.) I ignore, turn down to the highway and kick it up a tiny bit. Things seemed fine, but the GEAR BOX WAS SO NOTCHY!
**PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO #10**
10.) While cruising around 40mph, I fully engage the clutch and put the transmission in NETURAL. As I'm COASTING in neutral (35mph now), I started to shift the car into all the gears, in attempts to warm the gear box up a bit and loosen her up.
Well, the tranny did not like this!!! So the CLUTCH IS FULLY DEPRESSED AND I'M COASTING PUSHING THE GEAR SHIFTER INTO ALL GEARS. WHEN ATTEMPTING 1ST GEAR, THE TRANNY LITERALLY STOPPED ME FROM DOING SO AND WHINED LIKE A DOG IN HEAT!!! I pulled the tranny back into neutral and then attempted 1st gear again, and it was like hitting a brick wall and it WHINED, WHINED, WHINED!! I was able to hit the gas and let the RPM's jump to test that the tranny wasn't actually trying to engage 1st gear with the clutch down.
The RPM's screamed and I went no faster, so I knew the tranny was in netural, but what the heck!? When I tried it for the third time, I finally got it into 1st gear but it now had a continuous WHINE! Like I could just coast to a stop, while this WHINE kept going. Of course after I did start to slow down, it in turn lowered in decible level, until I came to a complete stop.
I can duplicate this as much as I wanted. As a matter of fact, I should have taken video w/ my Treo cell phone....
11.) Now the dealership has her and is trying to figure out what the deal is.
12.) *NEW* tranny MY @SS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13.) By the way, if the GEAR BOX IS SO NOTCHY and almost impossible to get into gears sometimes, should I also suggest they replace the entire GEAR BOX and shifter?? Please give me some help and advice guys...
Thanks Guys!
-Sad WhiteonWheat!!!!!!!!!!!
NIGHTMARE, NIGHTMARE, NIGHTMARE
Where do I even start...jeeeeezzz!!!
Ok, let me break it down in steps:
1.) Go to the dealership, chit chat, blah blah w/ the service dude. My ride pulls up outside.
2.) Walk up to the car and first thing I noticed was a nice GASH in my passenger side door!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, this is like the 6th time this dealership has *F&$#ED my car up. LORD HELP ME PLEASE! I of course start reading out the 'riot act' to the guys telling them exactly how I felt. They say, they will fix. I say, let me drive the car and then we'll talk exterior.
3.) Open the driver door. F&$K!!!!!! I had nice black marks all over my interior door piece. This happens every single time I come in for service! They cleaned it all off. It's that black sole crap from mechanic's boots. What did I buy guys, a Ford???????? Jeez!
IT GETS WORSE MUCH, MUCH WORSE:
4.) I crank up the car and try and move it. The car SHUTTERS VIOLENTLY and stalls. WTF!?!?!?! I try again and get it to move, but the HARD SHUTTER is still there!
5.) I get out of the dealers lot and merge into traffic, coming to an immediate stop.
6.) When the light turns green and traffic starts to move, I try to get the car to go and the SHUTTER is still there. Is it the new CLUTCH/CLUTCH PLATE/FLYWHEEL/THROW OUT BEARING,,,,what!?!?!? I push it to the back of my mind and think to ask them when I get back, if it's b/c the brand new parts need to "BREAK IN"?
7.) Start to get going now, I shift into 2nd...Hmmm, much more smooth! I start to think everything is gravy now...nah..think again.
8.) I shift into 3rd and feel an immediate "KICK"/"BUMP", like the tranny wasn't sure if it wanted to throw the gear shifter right out of 3rd and into Netural??
9.) I ignore, turn down to the highway and kick it up a tiny bit. Things seemed fine, but the GEAR BOX WAS SO NOTCHY!
**PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO #10**
10.) While cruising around 40mph, I fully engage the clutch and put the transmission in NETURAL. As I'm COASTING in neutral (35mph now), I started to shift the car into all the gears, in attempts to warm the gear box up a bit and loosen her up.
Well, the tranny did not like this!!! So the CLUTCH IS FULLY DEPRESSED AND I'M COASTING PUSHING THE GEAR SHIFTER INTO ALL GEARS. WHEN ATTEMPTING 1ST GEAR, THE TRANNY LITERALLY STOPPED ME FROM DOING SO AND WHINED LIKE A DOG IN HEAT!!! I pulled the tranny back into neutral and then attempted 1st gear again, and it was like hitting a brick wall and it WHINED, WHINED, WHINED!! I was able to hit the gas and let the RPM's jump to test that the tranny wasn't actually trying to engage 1st gear with the clutch down.
The RPM's screamed and I went no faster, so I knew the tranny was in netural, but what the heck!? When I tried it for the third time, I finally got it into 1st gear but it now had a continuous WHINE! Like I could just coast to a stop, while this WHINE kept going. Of course after I did start to slow down, it in turn lowered in decible level, until I came to a complete stop.
I can duplicate this as much as I wanted. As a matter of fact, I should have taken video w/ my Treo cell phone....
11.) Now the dealership has her and is trying to figure out what the deal is.
12.) *NEW* tranny MY @SS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13.) By the way, if the GEAR BOX IS SO NOTCHY and almost impossible to get into gears sometimes, should I also suggest they replace the entire GEAR BOX and shifter?? Please give me some help and advice guys...
Thanks Guys!
-Sad WhiteonWheat!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by WhiteonWheat; Feb 23, 2007 at 07:43 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Never, ever, ever put a tranny in first gear at anything more than maybe 5mph. What you're hearing is the fact that first gear is "dog eared". This is done to add strength to handle the extra torque it has to deal with at the low gear. The "whine" you're hearing and the resistance is because the gear notches are not smoothly rounded off like in other gears. It's the same reason most cars have "whine" when moving in reverse.
The notchiness and shudder are likely due to the new clutch. I would expect it to smooth out after break in.
The marks/gash sucks. Reading them the riot act was the way to go.
The notchiness and shudder are likely due to the new clutch. I would expect it to smooth out after break in.
The marks/gash sucks. Reading them the riot act was the way to go.
Never, ever, ever put a tranny in first gear at anything more than maybe 5mph. What you're hearing is the fact that first gear is "dog eared". This is done to add strength to handle the extra torque it has to deal with at the low gear. The "whine" you're hearing and the resistance is because the gear notches are not smoothly rounded off like in other gears. It's the same reason most cars have "whine" when moving in reverse.
If I'm going 35mph and I have the Clutch FULLY ENGAGED, going into 1st should not matter, why? B/c when the clutch is fully engaged, thus the transmission is at a complete stop status.
As I am "coasting", I should be able to select ANY gear I please as long as the clutch is fully engaged.
Please don't get me wrong though!
I APPRECIATE the comment and suggestion, but I do have to disagree...
Let put it this way: If I start off in 1st gear and get up to say 10mph and shift into 2nd and engage and get up to 25mph, shift into netural --> coast down to 10mph and fully engage the clutch and shift into 1st (again with the clutch fully engaged), I'm going to get a SCREAMING WHINNING TRANNY? and that's normal? If I'm in a parking lot sitting still, I can engage the clutch and "play" with the gear box as much as I want. I used to be able to do that going 80mph,,,even being able to select 1st gear. Of course not releasing the clutch, b/c that would blow the engine up! LOL
Do you get what I'm saying now??
Again, as long as the clutch is depressed in the fully engaged position, no matter if I'm sitting STILL or going 100+mph, I should be able to select ANY gear I want to go into...why? Again, b/c the tranny is no longer in motion when the clutch is engaged. 1st gear is irrelevant when the tranny is at a stand still.
Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it...like I said, I've never experience this before the tranny work...
Anyone else know anything about this?
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
White this may help you out understanding first gear and why it whines/cannot be engaged over 5MPH without doubleclutch/rev matching techniques.
The standard manual now uses Helical cut gears (because they are much quieter and engage eaiser in a sychro'd setup). Synchronizer rings preload any given gear as you let the clutch out (although driving like this isnt recommended) even without throttle input as long as you do it slowly enough. The time you have to keep the clutch engaged to do this will wear your clutches friction material, and thus is why "rev matching" is vital to the life of any transmission. Our transmissions use Helical gears in 2-6. First gear, however, is a Spur, or "dog cut" gear, hence where the term "Dog box" transmission comes from. Dog boxes are unsynchro'd (mostly) and are a bitch and a half to drive on the street. Spur gears do not engage with the meshed action of a helical gear, and because they are simply wheels with teeth, will create more gear noise as they are driven, resulting in the wine you hear when first winds down slowly in our car, or in a dog box'd car, in every gear regardless of accel or decel situations. I don't know if our first gear is synchronized, but as an educated guess, I would say no. I've never tried to ride the clutch down into first, as it takes throttle input to even get the gear selector into the gate for first gear over 5mph, and I only do it pulling into my driveway anyway. You should -NOT- be able to push the gear selector into first over 5mph, even with the clutch fully depressed. You may not hear it, but if your forcing it, your damaging the gear. Forcing a gear selector means your putting -any- pressure on it to get it into gear, a properly driven manual (esp this car) should be effortless up and down going into ever gear. Exerting force is doing nothing more than straining the linkage and possibly damaging the gears.
The standard manual now uses Helical cut gears (because they are much quieter and engage eaiser in a sychro'd setup). Synchronizer rings preload any given gear as you let the clutch out (although driving like this isnt recommended) even without throttle input as long as you do it slowly enough. The time you have to keep the clutch engaged to do this will wear your clutches friction material, and thus is why "rev matching" is vital to the life of any transmission. Our transmissions use Helical gears in 2-6. First gear, however, is a Spur, or "dog cut" gear, hence where the term "Dog box" transmission comes from. Dog boxes are unsynchro'd (mostly) and are a bitch and a half to drive on the street. Spur gears do not engage with the meshed action of a helical gear, and because they are simply wheels with teeth, will create more gear noise as they are driven, resulting in the wine you hear when first winds down slowly in our car, or in a dog box'd car, in every gear regardless of accel or decel situations. I don't know if our first gear is synchronized, but as an educated guess, I would say no. I've never tried to ride the clutch down into first, as it takes throttle input to even get the gear selector into the gate for first gear over 5mph, and I only do it pulling into my driveway anyway. You should -NOT- be able to push the gear selector into first over 5mph, even with the clutch fully depressed. You may not hear it, but if your forcing it, your damaging the gear. Forcing a gear selector means your putting -any- pressure on it to get it into gear, a properly driven manual (esp this car) should be effortless up and down going into ever gear. Exerting force is doing nothing more than straining the linkage and possibly damaging the gears.
^Thanks for that great info!
So what about the NOTCHY gear box???? Any ideas on that?
Could it be all the new parts need more time to "Break In" ??
Thanks "theb"!
I'll keep more posted from more and more test drives and everyday driving to work and back now...
Oh and also the resolution on the GASH in the passenger side door...
Please wish me tons of luck guys, I'm needing it. I'm starting to dislike driving the car now, and THAT has me up @ nights, b/c this was my "Dream Car". Arrrrrgggggghhhh!
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
So what about the NOTCHY gear box???? Any ideas on that?
Could it be all the new parts need more time to "Break In" ??
Thanks "theb"!
I'll keep more posted from more and more test drives and everyday driving to work and back now...
Oh and also the resolution on the GASH in the passenger side door...
Please wish me tons of luck guys, I'm needing it. I'm starting to dislike driving the car now, and THAT has me up @ nights, b/c this was my "Dream Car". Arrrrrgggggghhhh!
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
*Update
I STILL get a 'Clunk' type sound when shifting into 2nd gear. I'm going to take video of it tomorrow to share and get feedback on BEFORE I go back to the dealership and meet w/ the Service Manager this coming Tuesday morning.
If ANYONE knows how to post videos, please give me a hint or two, please!
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
I STILL get a 'Clunk' type sound when shifting into 2nd gear. I'm going to take video of it tomorrow to share and get feedback on BEFORE I go back to the dealership and meet w/ the Service Manager this coming Tuesday morning.
If ANYONE knows how to post videos, please give me a hint or two, please!
Thanks Guys!
-WoW
Edit: BTW, I didn't read this whole thread. I don't think they gave you a new tranny, but good luck.
I would say ride out the stock clutch if you are not F/I, planning on it, or have current issues.
If you do decide to go with a flywheel/clutch, research this well to be sure you have a good combo that will work well together. Some flywheels aren't the best match for some clutches and can transmit vibrations through the tranny under load. You usually feel it in the pedal.
A clutch job will usually run you between $300-400 dollars. About 4-5 hours of labor. It is always good to save money while you can. If they are doing tranny work now anyways, they may just charge you 30min-1hour for labor, or even for free. I did the same thing on my Cobra, so take advantage when you can to save money in labor.
I would say ride out the stock clutch if you are not F/I, planning on it, or have current issues.
If you do decide to go with a flywheel/clutch, research this well to be sure you have a good combo that will work well together. Some flywheels aren't the best match for some clutches and can transmit vibrations through the tranny under load. You usually feel it in the pedal.
A clutch job will usually run you between $300-400 dollars. About 4-5 hours of labor. It is always good to save money while you can. If they are doing tranny work now anyways, they may just charge you 30min-1hour for labor, or even for free. I did the same thing on my Cobra, so take advantage when you can to save money in labor.
Last edited by Cobra-2-G; Feb 25, 2007 at 05:42 AM.
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