Oh no Sam I understood, I just wanted to mention that yes it would take quite a bit of juice for the G to match the Z06's power output... I figure a 15-20% drivetrain factor as well....

Thanks for the kind words!



"See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a *****, but only enough blood to run one at a time."

 

wow...the Z06 can handle like that? hp is one thing, but you also have to take into consideration handling and gearing of the two cars at hand...0-150 mph in my 230 whp integra kept up with dyno proven 450 hp supras and corvettes...with my car weighing in @ 2800lbs with me in it, thats less than a 1:12 ratio, but the 92 gs-r tranny came with ridiculous gearing so i was good up to 150, but after that they just crept away...

 

Ed (Eagle1),
I'm glad you were able to make it out there with us. Seeing the elation on your face shortly after the 1st session, I knew you were hooked! Good for you. Laguna Seca is always a special place to be. You and I made the only G35 Sedan & Coupe out there. Oddly enough both Ivory Pearl Unfortunately ... no signs of any Zs there.

Once I had the suspension dialed in, I was able to turn in some very respectable times. A nice gentaleman in an Subbie STi came up to me for a little chat afterwards ... impressed by my mostly stock G. He was not able to pass me, although I'd probably not been able to do the same if I was behind him. He did almost lose it once, while trying too hard to keep up. It was interesting to see us taking very different lines at certain turns (RWD vs. 4WD) with basically similar lap times. All in all, we were fairly neck to neck out there. I got to check his STi up close ... a cool insturment cluster + a neat little boost guage (standard in STi) just above the steering column. Adjustable Electronic front LSD was pretty slick as well.

Laguna Seca is not a particularly hard and technical track. I'd say it is more of a finess track. Being smooth definitely pays divident here. It is fairly easy to get up to speed within a few laps, but to go from going fast to *extremely* fast takes some reall skills and 'ballz'.

Hope to see some G/Zs out there next time!



Clint (THX723)<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by THX723 on 02/09/04 08:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

sounds like a whole lot of fun...

but yes, a z06 will own most anything with the correct driver..

1/4 mile for a stock 2003 z06 (per road and track) is 12.8 @ 114... i dont' recall the skidpad, but i know it's in the high 90's. just an awesome car. though, i don't know if i'd get one...

 

Jealous! The only thing around NC that I know of is VIR and I don't know enough people to put together a G session.

 

A stock Z06 beats a stock G35 coupe....absolutely.

But with the FI on the G we were each putting down about the same rwhp, I may have had ten more. At the crank I have about 425. Of course, I weighed about 250 pounds more. (everybody dumps the spare tire, floor mats...even the ashtray...anything and everything that could conceivably come loose). These observations above are quite accurate and applicable.

But with the acceleration benefits of a lightweight flywheel, the LSD grabbing and putting down power in the turns, and the stiffer suspension, it was clear that what was happening for the no longer stock G35 was a consistently higher exit speed from the turns, and the ability to carry more speed into and through them. That is where all the results were to be found. This just made the run to each turn almost lustful in the chasing car. To the extent the Z06 had any advantage in straightaway power as a result of the torque or weight superiority, it was nominal compared to the handling disadvantages on a track that makes you haul down to between 30-50mph on three turns (2, 8a/b, and 11), and take most others at below 70mph, the exceptions being 1, 4, 6, 7 and 10. The 60mph + or - turns were 3, 5 and 9. And that is theoretical, because even on the big straight with the hammer down, where the only skill is foot down and hang on, with a couple of gear changes, the Z06 did not pull away. That is just machine to machine.

Obviously different drivers and cars will significantly impact those estimates for speeds at the corners, but for us modest skill types in roughly equivalent performing cars of this type, those are about what was going on. The advanced group guys were going quite a bit faster, just based on skill largely, though a couple had nice rides as well.

The front straight was maxed out at around 120mph, because at the end of it you have that 210 degree Andretti downhill diminishing radius hairpin.....you get real busy there with brake, clutch, throttle, gearshift and steering wheel. And squeezing your cheeks. And of course turn 11 going straight at the wall at 80+ and then doing a ninety degree left turn with a strip that is barely 20feet wide. I used to have a lot of admiration for the race drivers, and that has only increased after this introduction.

Bottom line, his skills were modest, and so were mine. No doubts about that. But side by side, the G35 just killed the Z06 in race handling on that track on that day. The credit is to the car, not the guys at the wheels.

There will be more testing and tweaking etc., and perhaps after the next couple of track days I will learn that this was a fluke. But the objective was to take a G, do reasonable mods that in the aggregate would take you to the cost range of a good Vette, but have a car that on a track would zap it, as well as other performance cars in a comparable price range, convincingly. But still maintain street civility and nice comfort and quality.

It did that.

Now, a really good driver in a turbo Mini Cooper would wax my tail, no doubt about it. Because mistakes cost you big and I would make lots and he would make none and ball game, he wins. But I watched the Vette car like a hawk for 20+ turns over two laps, and he just couldn't take it any farther, he was pushing his car, and that is further reflected by the fact that after the pass, he settled back down to a more comfortable pace and after two more laps he was probably a quarter track behind.

The G has good bones. You can do good things with it. There are other cars that are better on the track that cost less. There are other cars on the track that cost more that can't beat it. But overall, this little number has some real potential, and surprise for the unwary. What is fun is that someone looks at a 350Z and they think "fast sports car". They look at the G35 and think more like "nice luxury coupe". That creates opportunity for stealth to go with the performance.


The purpose of the post is not to get all worked up about one particular day or event, but to enthuse about a fun experience that others may wish to try (if a dufus like me can do it....well what are you waiting for..right?) and to advance some thoughts about potential for the car that really do make some fine differences. There is not a true issue of superiority/inferiority between these two cars stock...they are different animals. In performance and taste. Both great cars. I would very much like to have one of each. And a basket full of others as long as we are at it...who would not? But, I cannot. I have a very specific set of reasons for doing what I am doing to the car. After a couple more track days, I will probably be done with them with this vehicle, because by that time I will have reached the goal parameters I set.

Oh one more thing. The short shifter with the Nismo GT rubber ****, basically has the **** sitting right on the boot top. Your hand just falls down onto it from the wheel without any thought of looking for it, the throws are crisp and precise and give you a quicker change. No missed gates or wrong gates, and it helped to be confident and aggressive working the proper shifts. Under stress, it does help the driver interface with the car. Won't do anything for you in traffic particularly, but it feels good. Vibration not an issue either.

Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways

 

My apologies. I neglected to notice that the G was modified. I was thinking stock against stock.

 

Don't mean to flame, but SANCHEZ, where did you get your data for the Tremec/T56 not being an efficient transmission? It's the same one used in the viper, camaro ss, firehawk, cobra etc. (with different bell housing and drifeshafts of course) You probably got that rwhp data from an pre '01 Z06. Because Z06's werent' rated with 405 HP until '01. And typically dyno in the high 360's. Inf fact at a dyno day, my friend's Z06 dynoed 371. Anyway, I'm glad you(Eagle 1) had fun having that Z06 for lunch nontheless.

By the way, has anyone here ever been to the annual "hotchkis day at the track" sponsored by Hotchkis? It's it so much fun and totally worth the $. It is held at buttonwillow, CA. Maybe we could get a bunch us G owners there on the next one and have our own group!! (They divide the cars into groups...muscle cars, exotics, sport compact, etc). How cool would it be if enough G35 owners signed up that they would have no choice but to make an group just for us

 

No worries about the flaming... I know that the Camaro actually suffers less driveline loss that the Vette. I think it is because the vette is a transaxle(sp?). (Gears in the back)

FWIW: I drive a 99 C5 coupe and have installed a cabron fiber clutch and flywheel to recoup a little HP. So I guess my info is based on personal experience.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Yes, true. The transaxle will probably suffer more driveline loss. And yes you are right about the camaro/transam suffering less. In fact, my '01 SS rated at 345(slp package), I dynoed 314 bone stock! But I'm thinking it's more of the fact that the car is 'underrated'. By the way, I don't know if you heard(sorry to jump off subject), but some '02 camaro's also recieved the LS6 block! Well, my friend was one of those lucky bastards that did recieve the LS6 block. Anyway, don't want to hijack this post anymore than I already have. I can't wait to get this g on a road course. Hopefully the next "hotchkis day at the track'. I am not that great of a driver, but it's so much fun.

 

The question comes down to whether Z06 was stocked or not. How much did you spend all all your equipment in addition to the installation, and was it worth it to void the warranty. The z06 doesn't cost that much and it comes ready to race. G35c sure has potentials but when most people compare G35c to 350z they are comparing stocks.

 

Cookie:
All very good questions. The mods that I have done take me to the same zone as a Z06, that is certain.
But of course the cars are very different. I have an extra pair of seats, a useable trunk, and better interior fit, finish and luxury. And the car is faster and better handling. No warranty, however, on modified components. The objective was to develop a "stealth" high performance coupe, so that I could have fun when I wanted to, but go to places where such an aggressive vehicle might not be appropriate, such as business meetings, clubs, etc. For reasons to not go into here, showing up in a Porsche Carrera or Corvette is just out of the question. But the G is acceptable. So......bought the platform and then did the mods to get the performance I wanted out of the car. Not something that is recommended to, or needed or wanted by, many folks. But you can do it, and cost effectively, if you think it through carefully in advance.

Cpe 6MT/Aero/Prem/ATI/RT cats/Borla hdrs-catbcks/Nismo flywhl-cltch/TS-ECU/Tein flex EDFC/Stillen sways

 

Here are a couple of pics of Eagle1 in action. No signs of Z06


Clint (THX723)

 

Sorry for bringing back an old thread, but I just found this while doing a search for something else [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]. I just HAVE to comment, because I own both a Z06 and G35 coupe, and have taken the Z06 to the track at Willow Springs before. I haven't taken the G35 to the track yet, but thinking about it in early May.

If you were able to beat a Z06 at the track, that says a lot about your car, because among stock cars, Z06's pretty much dominate high speed road courses. It was what they were built and tuned for. They are simply awesome machines on the track.

It was my first time to the track too when I took my Z06 to Willow. I was bumped to the Intermediate group because the beginner group was too full, and they felt that although I was a beginner, I could at least keep up because I had a Z06. Well, by the 3rd session, not only did I keep up, I actually passed everyone in my entire group! Including a 911 Turbo and a highly modified turbo NSX. The only cars that passed me during the day were a few fully race prepped (not street legal) Porsches driven by advanced drivers who sneaked a few laps in early with the Intermediate group, and a Viper GTS driven by an instructor.

My point is, even for a newbie driver like me (although I am a pretty decent driver in general), the Z06 in pure stock form was dominating the track.

There are a lot of driver variables, especially with novice drivers. Although it looked like the Z06 driver you saw was pushing his car hard, that doesn't mean he's driving well or the fastest. In fact, if it was obvious that he was pushing his car hard, its often an indication that he's not being smooth, and thus is actually slow. If you watch the fastest guys on the track, it looks like they're not pushing their cars because they drive so smooth. Its rare that the tires are screeching or the car is going sideways int he hands of a fast, smooth, skilled driver.

To put things in perspective, my quickest average lap times at Willow Springs was 1:45. And I was faster than everyone else in the Intermediate group that day. I looked up the quickest time on the Internet for that same track with a bone stock Z06 on street tires. Best time was 1:30!!! That's 15 seconds that could be wrung out of the Z06 beyond what I did, and that's a lot!

All I'm saying is, its impossible to tell with the information you provided if its because your car is faster, or if you were simply a better driver than that Z06 driver was. The only way to tell that, is if you had the same driver run both cars on the track, and record the times. Or if you compare that Z06's times with the best Z06 times for that track, to give you an idea if he was driving it properly or not.

But with two novices running two different cars, there are too many variables to say conclusively that one car is faster than the other.

When I passed that 911 Turbo, I didn't say my Z06 was faster on the track than all 911 Turbos. I just happened to be faster than that particular 911 Turbo driver that day. I'm well aware that in the hands of a skilled driver, a 911 Turbo could wax me easily, although both cars are very close in capability on the track.

2003 G35C, 6MT, DG/G, Aero/Nav/Premium
2002 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue/Black

 

Z06ified,

What you said was 100% true, but I'm living my life vicariously through Eagle1, so I say he was definitely faster than the Z06. [img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

2004 Infiniti G35C-6MT
LR | Willow | Premium | Aero | Splash | BSM
30% Lumar Tint | Invinca Shield (C-Bra)
Z-Tube | JWT Pop Charger | RT Cats
JIC Y-Pipe & Crawford Plenum (on order)