I haven't a clue where I got the idea that the G35c has a Traction Control System.

VDC, ABS & EBD yes. They are documented.

But I've just gone through almost every OFFICIAL document I've read before and I can't find anything that suggests that they have TCS.

The only mention of TCS is on the various forums.

The reason I bring this up is that like many others out there in the midatlantic/northeast, Raleigh, NC has had more freezing rain, snow and sleet that we've had in many years (4 total "severe winter weather" events) and I've had occasion to drive in all of this nasty weather in either my '97 MarkVIII (which I traded in) or my '03 G35c.

The MarkVIII had TCS (supposedly) because it was one of the dozens of options you could personalize to your tastes. I.E. You could turn off the TCS and/or the ABS temporarily. (They would reset the next time you started the engine unlike the many other options.)

Our G35Cs don't have a TCS switch. They do have a VDC kill switch.

I had the MarkVIII in the '02 ice storm and the first '03 snow storm. I've had the G35c for the second '03 snow storm and this week's ice storm.

I did not specifically test the TCS on the MarkVIII. I did however experience the occasional slip which caused the slip indicator, an image of a spinning wheel, to flash and the throttle to be retarded. (This car spun the wheels a lot. Not because of the 4.6L, 32 valve, DOHC V8 pumping out 280hp and ??pd/ft of torque, but because the Michelin XVT4s S**K as all season tires on wet/frozen, dry, hot or cold surfaces (I was investigating better A/S tires when I decided to just trade the M8 in on the G35c).)

I did not intentionally test the G35c.

However, I did find myself in an identical situation used by C&D, MT, R&T, et. al., to perform the "Sigma 'U'" (not sure how the 'U' looking symbol is pronounced) test for posi/ls differentials.

On Tuesday of this week, most of the ice had melted except where it was in the shade or had been piled up by the plows.

That afternoon, I was driving home from the DQ and had to change lanes into the left turn lane. This particular left turn lane had about 1" of slush/ice on the left half of the lane. This lane's traffic light was red so I had to stop at the back of the line. This lane is also on an uphill incline.

Classic "Sigma 'U'" test. Both left wheels on the ice. Both right wheels on dry pavement. Car at a full stop. Road at an uphill incline.

The traffic light at the intersection turns green. Traffic begins to move. I get off of the brake and gently press the accelerator.

The left rear wheel spun just as if the G35c did not have a limited slip differential (which it doesn't) and no TCS. The "slip" light did NOT come on at all. It took me about ten seconds to move the ten feet necessary for the left rear wheel to find dryer pavement.

On Wednesday of this week I went to my Infiniti dealer for my first oil change. I decided to talk about this apparent problem with the TCS with the service manager and the parts manager (to talk about getting an LSD). They had no clue so they called for the sales manager (who use to be the service manager). He just laughed. He said that the only TCS for Inifiniti was the LSD. Then I brought up the fact that TCS back in the '80s, such as what was an option on Caddys with ABS, meant that it had a system that applied the brake on the spinning wheel in order to transfer torque to the non spinning wheel. He said that that was a marketing ploy. He said that those systems really didn't work and that those cars with an advertised TCS really just retarded the throttle. I mentioned that when I turned out of my neighborhood street onto a secondary street that the "slip" light did come on when the rear wheels hit the ice. He said that yes, but, that that was the VDC applying a pulse of ABS to the appropriate brake in order to prevent the tail of my G35c from sliding out. That was not anything done by the non existant TCS.

So, FYI, a replacement of the "hog's head" with a true LSD is $1,700. The parts manager couldn't give me a price for just the diff gear assembly, only the entire box.

On another note and in response to the "driving in the snow" thread, my ABS worked beautifully on about 2" of snow. That was a deliberate test.

FWIW.

Screamin' Daemon - L5AT

 

Go to www.infiniti.com, use their build/search function. Build a G35 coupe and choose the 6MT. Click the link that says "View all standard features". Look in the Performance section:


Standard Features

Performance

280-hp 3.5-liter (3,498cc) DOHC V6 engine
6-speed manual transmission
Front and rear Brembo® Brakes
Double mass flywheel
Multi-link Suspension
Brake assist
Limited Slip Differential (LSD)
Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD)
Traction Control System (TCS)
Infiniti Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)

Exterior

Aluminum kick plate with Infiniti nameplate
Body-colored, heated outside mirrors (manually folding)
Split dual exhaust finishers
Front fog lights
Front shading glass
Variable intermittent (windshield) wipers
Rear window defroster (with timer)
Heated outside mirrors
Body-colored side sills
UV-cut tinted glass
Low beam, Xenon headlights
Summer tires: Michelin Type S, 225/45R18 W-rated front tires and 245/45R18 W-rated rear tires
18-inch 7-spoke aluminum wheels

Interior

Anti-glare rearview mirror
Leather and titanium-tinted M/T shift ****
Center pocket in instrument panel, with electricity socket on the passenger side
Rear center console

Instrumentation and Driver Controls

Titanium-tinted center cluster
Fine-vision electronic analog instrumentation
Dual digital trip odometers
Infiniti analog clock
Multi-information display for air conditioner, outside temperature, and digital compass
Tilt Meter tilts steering column and gauge cluster together for improved visibility
Cruise control with steering-wheel-mounted controls
Vehicle Dynamic Control Cancel switch

Seating and Trims

Premium leather-appointed seats with embroidered Infiniti Logo
Heated seats with high and low settings
Driver's 6-way power seat with manual recline and walk-in device (for access to rear-seat)
Driver's adjustable lumbar support
Front passenger's 2-way power seat with manual recline and walk-in device (for access to rear-seat)
Fold-down rear-seats
Leather-wrapped steering wheel
Titanium-tinted door armrest grip
Soft pad door armrest

Comfort and Convenience

Anti-germ treatment steering wheel, manual shift ****, and door grips
Dual overhead map lights with sunglasses holder
Electromagnetic trunk opener
Front cigar lighter
Front lamps under doors
HVAC micro filter
Illuminated entry/exit fade-out system
Illuminated locking glove compartment
Illuminated front seat power window switches
Cup holders; 2 in front which fit mugs and 2 in rear with lids
Power door locks; drivers-side switch and passenger side switch
12 volt power socket in center console
Power windows
Rear heater vent
Illuminated sun visor vanity mirrors
Sun visor with extenders
Trunk net
Spare tire: space-saver Temper tire T145/90D16

Audio

160-watt, 6-speaker AM/FM/cassette audio system with stackable (6-disc) (in-dash) CD
Steering-wheel-mounted audio controls
Rear glass diversity antenna
Satellite Radio-Ready (late availability)

Security

Remote keyless entry system with 2 remote controlling keys with answer back feature
Remote power-opening of windows; closing via exterior door lock
Infiniti Vehicle Immobilizer System
Trunk open cancel switch (in the glove compartment)
Vehicle Security System
Battery saver

Occupant Safety

Dual-stage front supplemental air bags with seat belt buckle switches
Front seat supplemental side-impact air bags
Supplemental curtain side-impact air bags for front passengers
3-point height-adjustable front seat belts with Emergency Locking Retractors (ELR) and Automatic Locking Retractors (ALR), pretensioners and load limiters
3-point rear seat belts with ELR and ALR
Head restraints, front-seat active
2-way height adjustable front head restraints
Rear Head Restraints
Driver's Seat Belt Warning
Zone Body Construction
High-mounted Stop Lamp
Slide Away Brake Pedal/Breakaway Engine Mounts/Driveshaft
LATCH System (Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren)
Rear-seat Upper Tethers Anchors
First Aid kit

G35c 6MT/BS/G/Prem/Aero/Nav

 

Here is Infiniti's definition of what their TCS does (per the web site):

Traction Control System (TCS)

G35 Sport Coupe's integrated Traction Control System (TCS) senses wheelspin and automatically reduces engine output to help regain traction.

 

I thought that the VDC and LSD were standard on the 6mt an an option on the 5AT? Is that right? At least that was the reason I bought the 6MT...

Jason
Laser Red 03' Prem/Aero/6MT/SnRf

 

Ok...

To quote a famous movie... "What we have here is a failure to communicate"

To say the G35 doesn't have traction control, it only has VDC is like saying your computer doesn't have a file manager, it only has Windows.

In other words, the VDC system is a superior feature that superseeds simple traction control systems used in most cars. In the world of traction control systems, there are many different types. Some can only retard engine output, some can retard engine output and apply brake, and the most advanced systems can retard rpm and apply different brake and throttle pressures to different wheels. This allows not only traction, but DIRECTIONAL control.

In the industry, they refer to the different levels of a system's abillity as channels. The more channels a system has, the more inputs the computer can control.

Because these newer systems can do so much more than control wheel spin, car manufacturers have developed marketing terms (not schemes) to better describe what they do. GM calls thiers Stabilitrak. Mercedees calls thiers ESP, BMW calls thier DSC, Infiniti calls thiers VDC. All of them refer to a computer control system that works with the ABS, traction control, and electronic throttle system TOGETHER to improve overall traction and stability of the car.

The G35C auto with Sport Package and the 6MT do have a Limited Slip Differential. Is it an mechanical postitraction locker off a 67 Dodge Dart? No, its an electronic system that achieves the same effect by directing throttle and brake input to the rear wheels.

I have driven my car in the snow and most definitely felt all my systems kicking in including the LSD.

I am sorry that you have been misinformed that a traction control system is different from a VDC or other vehicle control when in fact the VDC is a superior system. Traction control is just one thing it does.

Its even worse to hear that your dealer doesn't know what they are talking about either. Somehow, that doesn't suprise me because I haven't found a dealer yet that I didn't know more about thier car than they do.

Perhaps the problem is marketing at Infiniti not listing traction control as a seperate feature. I notice BMW states thier 3 Series has "DSC with All Season Traction Control." This indicates that the system peforms this function. Maybe Infiniti should list the G35 has having "VDC with Traction Control."

 

Yep, I've got a 5AT, without a limited slip diff, not a 6MT.

Perhaps a 6MT does have a Traction Control System that works by "sens(ing) wheelspin and automatically reduc(ing) engine output to help regain traction" like my MarkVIII.

All I know is that the left wheel spun, the "slip" light did not come on and I made progress up the hill because the COF of snow/ice/slush is not zero.

I've driven cars with simple diffs, posi diffs, limited slip diffs and Torsen diffs.

All I know is that on that Tuesday afternoon, my G35c L5AT sans/LSD behaved like my '67 Camaro, my '73 Grand Am, my '78 Colt, my '84 TBird and my '88 Bronco all of which did not have Posi or LSD. My '94 and '96 Towncars, my '94 Impala SS and my '00 F150 4x4 all had LSD or a Posi. (I replaced the Posi in the '94 Impala SS with a Torsen. Didn't keep her long after installing the Torsen because I traded her in on the '00 F150 after getting 21" of snow back in '01. Not even with a Torsen and 275/50VR17 Nitto 450 tires could the BeaSSt handle that much snow.)



Perhaps my ECU has a problem. TCS "envy" perhaps. [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img] Perhaps the 6MT has a TCS. Or perhaps the web developer did a cut an paste from a Q45 popup.

Someone please tell me where, in a G35 manual, that a "Traction Control System" is even mentioned let alone described. Or any official Infiniti document other than a popup dialog.

Another question, why would a G35 (any model) need an LSD if, in fact, it had TCS? Isn't that gilding the lily?

Should the VDC provide TCS functionality? Absolutely. Especially since VDC uses the ABS to pulse the brakes on the tire which it determines is going to cause a slide and not just a retardation of the throttle. In fact, I thought that the mere mention of a TCS was a marketing ploy (I did remember seeing TCS mentioned in the popup when you guys reminded me). Does the VDC provide TCS functionality. Not IMHO.

Screamin' Daemon - L5AT

 

Thanks bigel for a superb post....it's ones like that are the reason I dig around on these boards.

 

No problem!

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

The G35C auto with Sport Package and the 6MT do have a Limited Slip Differential. Is it an mechanical postitraction locker off a 67 Dodge Dart? No, its an electronic system that achieves the same effect by directing throttle and brake input to the rear wheels

<hr></blockquote>

Are saying that the G35c uses breaking and throttle directing as the LSD? If so, can it be added/programes?

I

 

From what I understand, the LSD is electronic. My guess is its an upgraded computer module due to the additional processing and channels needed, and not something that could be programmed into the standard computer. But, that is a good question that I would love to have answered by an actual Infiniti engineer.

 

on my previous car, i was able to turn traction control off and still keep active handling on. That way, i would be able to peel out but not kick the tail out (too much, it would still let you do it a little - not like the g). On the G it seems like when vdc is on, you can neither peel out nor kick the tail out at all. So is there a way to turn tcs off and still keep vdc on? so that you can peel out but not spin out?

 

LSD is viscous (hifallutin word for fluid )

Bigel- good post- TCS is a subcomponent of VDC, as is ABS.

Uses the same sensors, plus a few extra: you will note, on every VDC car (to the best of my knowledge), drive-by-wire throttle- necessary to remove the throttle from your right foot and put into the control of HAL, the safety nanny that keeps your butt on the road when you've managed to royally FUp. Also, brake sensors, steering sensor, and g sensors (at least two) contribute to the algorythms that decide what direction you want to go, and the direction you are currently headed, with how much wheelspin (hence the ABS sensors).

Best example I can think of to try safely is this. Find a quite road with some fresh snow. Leave the VDC on. Try to do a spin. Not possible. You'll manage what I'll call J hooks. Look back at your tracks after you've tried a half dozen times. You'll see J's all down the road. As the system senses the spin of the car, everything will get eerie quiet as the engine is removed from your control, and then a load brapppp as the brakes are individually applied to attempt to put you back on course, thus no spin.
Now with the VDC off, try again. Instant 360s.

In practice, the system is phenomenal in most cases but (big but): if you begin to lose it under acceleration in a fast sweeper with the VDC on, do not overcorrect to get back on course. Just point the car gently where you want to go. Otherwise, as I discovered the hard way, you can get "into a fight" with the VDC, where it will be attempting to correct for your overcorrections, and while eventually it'll get sorted out (with any luck), it makes for a long and exciting "muted" fishtail if you keep your foot in it.