"Secondly, people have been hitting this center curb every year in the rain and the city hasn't done anything to light up the area at all. This is called negligence and is absolutely the fault of the city."

You are going by hear say of a tow truck driver that was probably just saying that to help make you feel better about what had just happened. Just be careful next time you are in "complete darkness and very hard to see due to the heavy rain".
I know I would be careful if "people were swerving al over, going into other peoples lanes and nearly running me and other people off the road".
Once again, I am so sorry for your loss. I am very glad you are ok. Good luck with everything.

 

Quote: "You are going by hear say of a tow truck driver that was probably just saying that to help make you feel better about what had just happened."

If you read anything I said you would know that while I sat at the chevron on the corner which was the span of about an hour and a half, 4 more people did the exact same thing as me. So it's not heresay, and furthermore what would he care if I felt like [censored] about wrecking my car?

Quote: "If you were driving in a lane, how would you hit the divider though?"

There were painted lines on the road which were impossible to see in heavy rain and they didn't have reflectors on the lines; and if you cant see that the road curves out of the way of the center curb, you run straight into it. Also, it is easy to see where the road goes if there are a lot of people around; but that road had about 5 people on it at the time so I was basically navigating on my own.

And to answer another question, I know for fact that you can get compensation through the city if there is a pothole big enough to damage or bend a wheel, though it definitely takes persistance, and as far as I am concerned this is the same thing.

2004 G35 Coupe 6MT | OB/Black
Premium | Aero | Splash Guards | XM
Z Tube | Pop Charger
Helix Test Pipes
Unorthodox Crank Pulley
Injen SES
DC Sports Headers

 

I will chime in here as a claims adjuster. There is one basic principle you must understand. The Basic Speed Law. If you can't see the road or lane markers, slow down. If you can not possibly drive any slower to meet the basic speed law, then perhaps you shouldn't drive in those conditions. I see this happen a lot in snowy conditions where drivers decide to go out on the road regardless of the fact that it is way to slippery to be on the road at all.

As far as suing the city, you can do whatever you want. Doesn't mean the court will award it. About the only things I have actually seen the city pay for was damage from expansion joints that got terribly bad and potholes that had filled with water making them impossible to see during the rain. And even then, it was with great reluctance that the city paid it. Either way, you'll basically have to prove that a reasonable and prudent driver would not have been able to avoid this accident. But based on what you said initially that you were struggling to see in the rain, it sounds to me like you should have been going even slower.

 

If driving 1 mph is unsafe then you should not be on the road period. Regardless of whether roads are closed or not. And regardless of what the speed limit says. Each person must make this judgement him/herself. You don't assume it's safe to drive just because roads are open. Consider that he indicated that the painted lines were difficult to see because of the rain. This is especially true when it's dark and raining. Being aware of these kinds of things and adjusting your driving accordingly is reasonable and prudent. But the fact is he crossed over the painted line. The curb is a fixed object. If he could not see the curb or the line, I think he was driving too fast for the conditions. It's not like the curb was in the middle of a driving lane. Nor would the curb "come out of nowhere."

Certainly, to some extent, this is a subjective matter, but from my experience in claims, I doubt the city will pay for it. I doubt a judge or jury would award it. And it's likely his own insurance company would put him at fault for it.

 

Thank you ellusive, I was just about to say the same thing. I believe the speed limit on that road is 35-40 and I was going about 25. Also, the law is the law. And negligence on the part of the city department of transportation to fix a center divider that does not meet code requirements after possibly 30+ of the same accident should be an open shut case. For one thing, $2000+ in damages is not something I want on my insurance record, and secondly I would be helping to stop potentially dozens more accidents due to this dangerous road. Also, I am going to try to take pictures of the road at night to show the visibility of the curb.

Furthermore, thanks to everyone for your concern on this issue.

2004 G35 Coupe 6MT | OB/Black
Premium | Aero | Splash Guards | XM
Z Tube | Pop Charger
Helix Test Pipes
Unorthodox Crank Pulley
Injen SES
DC Sports Headers

 

Aha- So you need to show that the curb doesn't meet code in some way.

Yesterday driving back from a great dinner outing with a girl, I found myself about to pull something similar to Steve (but in Torrance). I swerved to miss the curb and realized a couple things: 1.) my heart was racing, 2.) I could have easily hit a car in the lane next to me had there been one, and 3.) I was driving too fast to properly adjust in time for the given conditions.

I like what I hear Ckwik saying though. Don't think he is trying to come after you or anything- he is just giving you a glimpse of what you will be up against in trying to squeeze money out of the city. I went through it in a clear case of road construction not posting a warning for those steel plates they use. It bent a rim and instantly deflated a tire on my old BMW. It was hard to get the $$ from the county.

Remember, the fact that 4 people hit this thing just like you can just as easily proove that those 4 were driving too fast as well. I grew up in a town where it snowed/rained/hailed like crazy every winter. We would have to do shopping before it would hit because it was very unsafe to drive. Funny, now that I think about it, all the accidents on the news were from LA people trying to get home from skiing. They interviewed a guy from LA in a Civic with a spare trying to put chains on who said he was getting home one way or another...scary.

Honestly, some of the things I hear about the city being sued in this thread make me worried to be on the road...and pissed I have to pay taxes for it.

Danation.com - G35C CB & GRAPHITE / NAV / PREM / AT

 

Sorry to hear about your car.

As Cwick said-- reasonable speed. If there'd been a brick wall in front of you, you'd have not seen it. Why would you drive in those conditions? Speed limits are for nomal conditions, but a reasonable and safe speed is needed in extenuating circumstances. The fact that 4 other people hit it just adds to my "LA Drivers" file a bit more. Again, sorry to hear about your car, but I can't ignore reality altogether.

G

"If my critics were told I could walk on water, they would say, 'But he can't swim.'"

Black/Willow Sedan. Check profile for specs.

<font color=red>B.A.S.T.A.R.D Squad</font color=red>

 

Just because you are within the speed limit, does NOT meant you are driving in a safe manner. Consider that speed limits are determined based on road surveys which generally use the 85th percentile of speed during non-peak hours as the limit. A lot of factors can cause this number to vary to an extent. It's established as Prima Facie evidence that a person is speeding if that limit is exceeded. But that's not to say you can not be cited and convicted of a speeding offense at a speed lower than the Prima Facie limit. While on a technical level, it is possible to cite the basic speed law, in practice it's much trickier as it's hard to prove a speed is unsafe by the defenition of basic speed law until an accident actually occurs. Especially if the actual speed is unknown. If you are exceeding the Prima Facie limit, you can be cited for violating the basic speed law based on the fact that it is scientifically proven that you are driving an unsafe speed based on the road surveys (admittedly it can be a rather weak argument for the state/county to stand on as I found a lot of holes in it when I was going to fight a ticket).

If you look at any police report for a rear ender accident, you'll find the officer doesn't really cite unsafe following distance. They always cite the basic speed law as the reason for the accident. Driving 50 mph at a distance of 10 feet from the rear of a stopped car is unsafe even if the speed limit is 60. The same is true of 10 mph at a distance of 1 inch from the rear of a stopped car even if the limit is 60 mph. In both cases, you are about to hit the car in front of you. It is much easier to prove a basic speed law case when a car hits something.

As far as code, I hope you actually know the codes and can apply it to this case. I do not. However, if there is a painted line that marks the lane then I can't see how this would not meet code. And even if it did not, it still must stand the test against the model of a reasonable and prudent driver. A person can break every law in the vehicle code as far as I am concerned, but unless one of the laws he breaks actually causes an accident, he is not t fault for the accident. There must be causation. For example, if you are speeding at 100 mph and you get rear ended. You are breaking a speed law, but that didn't cause the accident. The person behind you was driving too close or too fast for conditions. Another example would be if you are driving drunk and stopped at a light. You get rear ended. You are breaking what most would consider a major law, but there is no fault on you in this case.

Now to relate it to a city, yes, the city has an interest in trying to keep the roads safe. But to what extent? There are many roads and intersections where accidents seem to be inherently more common than others. I've seen cities add speedbumps in small residential streets. It's a residential street. People should be driving relatively slow in it. But we don't. Sometimes the timing of traffic lights have to be lengthened between red in one direction and green in the other to accommodate all the people who seem to think it's okay to catch the beginning of a red light. The yellow phase is reasonably long enough, but people seem to still run the red. Everything is up to code, but accidents still happen. So might the city get involved to try and lessen the chances of an accident like this from occurring. Of course. Does it mean they are responsible for the person running the red light? Nope.

I've gotten claims where people hit objects in the road at night. Their lights are aimed down further than they should be and/or they are just plain outrunning their headlights. You should realistically be driving in such a manner that you can avoid an accident considering the visibility you have.

As far as not wanting $2000+ in damages reported to your carrier, it is irrelevant to fault. In fact, the liability(fault) in this case would be the same whether you had $1.00 in damage or $10,000 in damages. Fault is based on the duty breached, and causation.

And helping others, while a noble cause, does not mean that drivers should be allowed to drive as fast as they want without any regard for the conditions.

The real question then would be would a reasonable and prudent person have hit the object at night without the rain? Or perhaps even in the day? Visibility and sight of objects and other vehicles is a huge factor in accidents. From all the investigations I've done on accidents, most of the time, one or both parties either never saw the other vehicle or saw them too late. Or for traffic signal/sign violations, they never saw the light's color or at all, or didn't see the sign. I'm sure had you seen the curb, you would not have hit it. The question that would need to be answered is why didn't you see the curb? I say based on the conditions you described you should have been driving slower. But if you decide to pursue the city, I'll expect a judge will have to decide this one in your favor in order for you to get any money out of the city. And as I said before, I think it will be unlikely...

 

Very good advice CKwik. I think it will be hard to prove your case to the court. Those who live in LA know there are tons of potholes but have anyone been able to sue the city for damaged rims or chasis?


Speaking of LA drivers. I was back in West LA area today to eat at Chan Dara (damn hot waitresses) and I see this 350z driver just asking for accident to happen. I was traveling on Bundy Blvd heading north towards Santa Monica Blvd. Bundy is 2 lane road for those who are not familiar with the area and after 6-7pm street parking is allowed so basically reducing the road to one lane.

I was driving along on the left lane with the traffic flowing at speed limit, 35mph, and I heard this 350z' exhaust coming fast from my rear right and his lane was ending within 300-400ft due to the parked cars. I knew if I continued at my pace he was going to barely be able to sequeeze in in front of me so I slowed down and let him cut in front. Apparently this wasn't good enough for him, as soon as the row of parked cars ended he sped back to parked lane. Mind you there are 3-4 more parked cars coming up. This time the other drivers weren't so courtesy but 350z driver forcefully squeeze himself half into the other lane and push other drivers out of the way.

Hey I don't want to stereotype but it's gotta be one of those UCLA students judging by the size of that spoiler and the irriate way he's driving. ( I went to UCLA too so dont call me a UCLA hater. =) This is why I would never buy my kid a fast car, it's a death trap.

 

main thing is that you are ok........good luck fixing your G

Bush/Cheney '04

 

is your G sitting at Santa Monica Infiniti...?

 

yeah its the black one with the smoked taillights and injen exhaust.

2004 G35 Coupe 6MT | OB/Black
Premium | Aero | Splash Guards | XM
Z Tube | Pop Charger
Helix Test Pipes
Unorthodox Crank Pulley
Injen SES
DC Sports Headers

 

thats funny cookielover, i have seen people do that [censored] A LOT. I live right off of bundy and texas which is the next light after santa monica.

2004 G35 Coupe 6MT | OB/Black
Premium | Aero | Splash Guards | XM
Z Tube | Pop Charger
Helix Test Pipes
Unorthodox Crank Pulley
Injen SES
DC Sports Headers

 

steve... my car is also sitting at SM Infiniti right now

it got hit on the freeway last week and im waiting on my INS company to finall start something on it..

your car doenst look bad at all.. the only thing i could see was a blown front and spare rear .. everything else looked ok.. i like the exhuast setup.. u gotta let me hear it sometime.