Finally got my G35 Tuned (04 5AT) Dyno Inlcuded
You are the one claiming I'm LOSING POWER becuase of my "super flowing" exhaust that is stock.
Headers do not make your exhaust flow more. They make the EXHAUST SIDE of the engine flow more.
You can put as free flowing headers as you want, if your exhaust won't flow more... then it doesnt do anything but move the powerband down more (which is what has happened here).
Rotational mass does have affect on WHP, but it doesn't "make" more whp.
Brake kits and driveshafts don't cause that much of a difference in WHP, especially for their costs.
Lighter wheels will "increase" WHP upto a certain point.
I am well aware of how drivetrain loss works, but you cannot just keep lightening things to add WHP.
There is a law of diminishing returns here. You can only minimize parasitic losses so much. As the dyno's on this site have shown the lightweight driveshafts don't make much of a difference (as expected).
Brake kits don't do much either, and their prices are OBSCENE.
For the cost of these retarded mods I could just build the entire damn car Forced Induction and call it a day.
If I got very light weight wheels, 2 piece lightweight rotors (brake kit) and a carbon fiber driveshaft I would be out around $4000-6400 depending on which wheels I bought.
Driveshaft ~1200
Brake kit ~1200
Wheels ~1600-4000.
That is more than the cost of a supercharger and I'm not going to magically gain 30WHP from this.
Which is why I was telling you that your suggestions are stupid, which they are.
And your thoughts that additional backpressure is going to make me post a higher peak dyno number is absurd.
You basically are completely full of crap. You might turn a wrench here and there but many of your assumptions on what makes cars fast or what makes cars have more WHP are completely wrong.
To say that rotational mass has no impact on WHP is absolutely absurd. Rotational mass has an enormous difference on WHP. Adding bigger brakes (not "breaks") adds rotational mass if your rotors are larger and will make your car have less power and be slower. Adding heavier rims and/or tires will do the same, as will adding a heavier driveshaft or heavier flywheel.
Think about it..... if you had giant cylindrical lead-filled forms that were the same size and shape as your stock rims and tires but weighed like 400 pounds each, your car would obviously dyno much lower in Wheel Horsepower than the stock setup. Anyone with an ounce of experience on dynos knows this to be true. It doesn't add horsepower... but it reduces the amount of crank horsepower lost when doing a rolling wheel dyno.
To say that rotational mass has no impact on WHP is absolutely absurd. Rotational mass has an enormous difference on WHP. Adding bigger brakes (not "breaks") adds rotational mass if your rotors are larger and will make your car have less power and be slower. Adding heavier rims and/or tires will do the same, as will adding a heavier driveshaft or heavier flywheel.
Think about it..... if you had giant cylindrical lead-filled forms that were the same size and shape as your stock rims and tires but weighed like 400 pounds each, your car would obviously dyno much lower in Wheel Horsepower than the stock setup. Anyone with an ounce of experience on dynos knows this to be true. It doesn't add horsepower... but it reduces the amount of crank horsepower lost when doing a rolling wheel dyno.
And physically lightening the car doesn't add WHP either, its only rotational mass.
But the gain's will not be large (if any) for the cost involved.
Reducing parasitic loss and rotational mass results in higher WHP readings on a dyno. It's not adding HP to your car but reducing the amount lost when it's measured at the wheels.
Last edited by partyman66; May 27, 2016 at 12:48 AM.
You clearly don't know what the term rotational mass means. Reducing the weight of the car doesn't necessarily mean you're reducing rotational mass. If you remove the seats, gut your whole interior, cut off the whole roof and windshield and all the body panels off, you have reduced the weight of your car by about 1000 pounds, but you haven't reduced its rotational mass at all. If you leave all of that stuff in-tact and swap in lighter wheels and tires, add in Carbon-Ceramic brake rotors, a lightweight driveshaft and a lightweight flywheel and pulleys... you've reduced your rotational mass by a ton, even if you put a stack of weights in the trunk that weigh as much as the net difference of weight that your aftermarket parts (mentioned above) weighed vs the stock ones.
Reducing parasitic loss and rotational mass results in higher WHP readings on a dyno. It's not adding HP to your car but reducing the amount lost when it's measured at the wheels.
Reducing parasitic loss and rotational mass results in higher WHP readings on a dyno. It's not adding HP to your car but reducing the amount lost when it's measured at the wheels.
Okay buddy.
Yes lowering the rotational mass will lower the parasitic loss from the drivetrain.
But the cost of these mods vs the % gain is really very stupid.
Even if I was currently at 25% (which would be pretty damn high for a RWD setup w/ stock wheels), it wouldn't really be possible to get under 15-18% no matter how much I lightened it.
And considering that the cost of these parts is retardedly high.... its not at all beneficial.
The G35 also comes with a 2 piece driveshaft that has 3 joints IIRC, going to a 1 piece single jointed one is likely to increase the potential for failure, cause premature wear on the joint and cause vibration from over stressing it.
The only part that half makes sense is getting some lighter wheels, but even there I am looking at around $1600, and say that it reduced my parasitic loss by 3%.... that would mean 250WHP->257WHP. For $1600 I can buy a Transgo Kit and a 100 shot if I cared that much.
A lightweight flywheel is usually the biggest "bang for the buck" in terms of rotational mass reduction, but since my car is automatic... that isn't an option.
Pulley's usually don't do ****, most dyno's show less than 1WHP gain, some even lose some torque. And reducing the pulley mass (especially the main pulley) can also cause the engine to become unbalanced thus causing premature failure.
First of all, you don't get to choose what 300whp costs. Diminishing returns is the name of the game. You should know this, Mr racecar builder. How's that saying go? "If it's fast and cheap it ain't quality, if it's fast and quality it ain't cheap"? Something like that?
Second: Hahahaha this guy is hopeless. Let us know when you get to your 300hp N/A build without understanding parasitic drivetrain loss, buddy. Please PLEASE keep us updated.
Second: Hahahaha this guy is hopeless. Let us know when you get to your 300hp N/A build without understanding parasitic drivetrain loss, buddy. Please PLEASE keep us updated.
Last edited by ScraggleRock; May 27, 2016 at 02:26 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2015
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Finally got my G35 Tuned (04 5AT) Dyno Inlcuded
I'm the one who doesn't know? After I just said that lightening the car doesn't add WHP?
Okay buddy.
Yes lowering the rotational mass will lower the parasitic loss from the drivetrain.
But the cost of these mods vs the % gain is really very stupid.
Even if I was currently at 25% (which would be pretty damn high for a RWD setup w/ stock wheels), it wouldn't really be possible to get under 15-18% no matter how much I lightened it.
And considering that the cost of these parts is retardedly high.... its not at all beneficial.
The G35 also comes with a 2 piece driveshaft that has 3 joints IIRC, going to a 1 piece single jointed one is likely to increase the potential for failure, cause premature wear on the joint and cause vibration from over stressing it.
The only part that half makes sense is getting some lighter wheels, but even there I am looking at around $1600, and say that it reduced my parasitic loss by 3%.... that would mean 250WHP->257WHP. For $1600 I can buy a Transgo Kit and a 100 shot if I cared that much.
A lightweight flywheel is usually the biggest "bang for the buck" in terms of rotational mass reduction, but since my car is automatic... that isn't an option.
Pulley's usually don't do ****, most dyno's show less than 1WHP gain, some even lose some torque. And reducing the pulley mass (especially the main pulley) can also cause the engine to become unbalanced thus causing premature failure.
Okay buddy.
Yes lowering the rotational mass will lower the parasitic loss from the drivetrain.
But the cost of these mods vs the % gain is really very stupid.
Even if I was currently at 25% (which would be pretty damn high for a RWD setup w/ stock wheels), it wouldn't really be possible to get under 15-18% no matter how much I lightened it.
And considering that the cost of these parts is retardedly high.... its not at all beneficial.
The G35 also comes with a 2 piece driveshaft that has 3 joints IIRC, going to a 1 piece single jointed one is likely to increase the potential for failure, cause premature wear on the joint and cause vibration from over stressing it.
The only part that half makes sense is getting some lighter wheels, but even there I am looking at around $1600, and say that it reduced my parasitic loss by 3%.... that would mean 250WHP->257WHP. For $1600 I can buy a Transgo Kit and a 100 shot if I cared that much.
A lightweight flywheel is usually the biggest "bang for the buck" in terms of rotational mass reduction, but since my car is automatic... that isn't an option.
Pulley's usually don't do ****, most dyno's show less than 1WHP gain, some even lose some torque. And reducing the pulley mass (especially the main pulley) can also cause the engine to become unbalanced thus causing premature failure.
There was one that was completely beat to crap with over 200k and the guy wanted 8k and there was a dealership that had one with 230k that they wanted 7k for but they "lost it" when I went to the dealership to look at it.
But it is my daily so... I guess its not the worst thing considering Miami traffic these days.
Also @Scraggletard I never said I was going to reach 300WHP N/A Dynojet. But considering that I know of a couple cars locally that make over 270WHP (dynojet) without any of this parasitic loss reduction bullcrap I know that its quite possible to reach 280WHP with the mods I am doing.
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 609
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Finally got my G35 Tuned (04 5AT) Dyno Inlcuded
I wish the car was manual, but when I was looking for a G around here I couldn't find a single manual one for sale that was at all acceptable.
There was one that was completely beat to crap with over 200k and the guy wanted 8k and there was a dealership that had one with 230k that they wanted 7k for but they "lost it" when I went to the dealership to look at it.
But it is my daily so... I guess its not the worst thing considering Miami traffic these days.
Also @Scraggletard I never said I was going to reach 300WHP N/A Dynojet. But considering that I know of a couple cars locally that make over 270WHP (dynojet) without any of this parasitic loss reduction bullcrap I know that its quite possible to reach 280WHP with the mods I am doing.
There was one that was completely beat to crap with over 200k and the guy wanted 8k and there was a dealership that had one with 230k that they wanted 7k for but they "lost it" when I went to the dealership to look at it.
But it is my daily so... I guess its not the worst thing considering Miami traffic these days.
Also @Scraggletard I never said I was going to reach 300WHP N/A Dynojet. But considering that I know of a couple cars locally that make over 270WHP (dynojet) without any of this parasitic loss reduction bullcrap I know that its quite possible to reach 280WHP with the mods I am doing.
i've looked for a Manual, Suede Cadillac CTS-V Sedan (2011-2013) for years....
Only ever found one and it was rebuilt title lol.... every once in a while I'll see one on ebay without all the options I want, but I really cannot buy something like that from ebay.
I wish the car was manual, but when I was looking for a G around here I couldn't find a single manual one for sale that was at all acceptable.
There was one that was completely beat to crap with over 200k and the guy wanted 8k and there was a dealership that had one with 230k that they wanted 7k for but they "lost it" when I went to the dealership to look at it.
But it is my daily so... I guess its not the worst thing considering Miami traffic these days.
Also @Scraggletard I never said I was going to reach 300WHP N/A Dynojet. But considering that I know of a couple cars locally that make over 270WHP (dynojet) without any of this parasitic loss reduction bullcrap I know that its quite possible to reach 280WHP with the mods I am doing.
There was one that was completely beat to crap with over 200k and the guy wanted 8k and there was a dealership that had one with 230k that they wanted 7k for but they "lost it" when I went to the dealership to look at it.
But it is my daily so... I guess its not the worst thing considering Miami traffic these days.
Also @Scraggletard I never said I was going to reach 300WHP N/A Dynojet. But considering that I know of a couple cars locally that make over 270WHP (dynojet) without any of this parasitic loss reduction bullcrap I know that its quite possible to reach 280WHP with the mods I am doing.
And you were wrong. Lowering rotational mass DOES increase WHP. You said it doesn't but it does. Brakes rotors are also included in rotational mass.
I remember years ago when I got a lightweight flywheel for my civic I "gained" like 2WHP when I was already dynoing over 200, and i reduced my flywheel weight by like 10lb.
I can dyno the car 3 times and get a random 2WHP "phantom gain" because Dyno's aren't exact.
In dynoing my G, one run I dynoed 244 then we ran it again and dynoed 250 without any mods or tuning. Then I got 248 then 249 then 251 then 248 again.
SO literally unless there was a massive reduction, it would unlikely be seen on the dyno.
Read my above post in showing why this is pointless.
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The "increase" is within margin of error. Unless its something like a lightweight flywheel and even then the difference is usually pretty small and completely depends on the setup.
I remember years ago when I got a lightweight flywheel for my civic I "gained" like 2WHP when I was already dynoing over 200, and i reduced my flywheel weight by like 10lb.
I can dyno the car 3 times and get a random 2WHP "phantom gain" because Dyno's aren't exact.
In dynoing my G, one run I dynoed 244 then we ran it again and dynoed 250 without any mods or tuning. Then I got 248 then 249 then 251 then 248 again.
SO literally unless there was a massive reduction, it would unlikely be seen on the dyno.
Read my above post in showing why this is pointless.
I remember years ago when I got a lightweight flywheel for my civic I "gained" like 2WHP when I was already dynoing over 200, and i reduced my flywheel weight by like 10lb.
I can dyno the car 3 times and get a random 2WHP "phantom gain" because Dyno's aren't exact.
In dynoing my G, one run I dynoed 244 then we ran it again and dynoed 250 without any mods or tuning. Then I got 248 then 249 then 251 then 248 again.
SO literally unless there was a massive reduction, it would unlikely be seen on the dyno.
Read my above post in showing why this is pointless.
NOW it does, but it's "pretty small".
Do you even physics? There is and always will be an inverse relationship between weight & horsepower in automotive applications (& really anything else involving work & load).
You should let your "skinny Asian wife" teach you math.