At $67 a barrel...
#16
08-12-2005, 09:03 PM
#18
08-13-2005, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by clinty
And why would any government do anything about high oil prices??? ...
Democracy is wonderful thing. Too bad you don't seem to embrace it more and spend less timing BLAMING one person or party.
Using your logic, I blame you for not writing your congressmen and senators and telling them you're upset about the high gas prices.
#19
08-13-2005, 08:42 AM
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Don't think so!
Originally Posted by clinty
Who's responsible for this price hike??
BUSH!?
Did I hear Iran's the next target?
BUSH!?
Did I hear Iran's the next target?
to the off topic forum.
FACT: There hasn't been a new oil refinery built in the U.S, in ages thanks
to eco-weenies which contributes to price bump.
FACT: Gasoline has to be refined for specific metropolitan areas, call it
'designer' gasoline (again thank eco-weeinies) which also contributes to
price bump.
FACT: There is more demand for fuel for personal vehicles in emerging
markets (i.e., former USSR and let's not forget the *billions* of folks in
China) than ever before which strains production as well.
Line your ducks up before taking pot shots and take the Kerry-Edwards
sticker off your bumper too.
#20
08-13-2005, 08:54 AM
#21
08-14-2005, 02:18 PM
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It's seems gas here (Tampa, FL) has gone up 25 to 30 cents a gallon in the past week. I don't understand how pricing works. Does the gas station pays for a load of gas at a specific price? Shouldn't the price at the pump remain the same until another load of gas is delivered at a new price? Why would the price at the pump go up daily? Almost every gas station near my house raised their price 7 cents yesterday. Even ther normally cheaper priced stations are charging the same as the more expensive ones.
#22
08-14-2005, 03:10 PM
"FACT: There hasn't been a new oil refinery built in the U.S, in ages thanks
to eco-weenies which contributes to price bump. "
Eco restrictions on gas were exactly the same back in the Clinton years. I remember some time in the mid-late 90s gas was 99c a gallon !!! Also refining has nothing to do with the price of oil ... and the price of oil is high as hell. So you cannot blame it on refining only.
It should be also added that the fact that there are no new refineries being built has more to do with anti competetive practices of the oil companies than ecological restrictions.
"FACT: Gasoline has to be refined for specific metropolitan areas, call it
'designer' gasoline (again thank eco-weeinies) which also contributes to
price bump."
Maybe it does. But I bet what contributes the most is the $65 per barrel price of oil.
"FACT: There is more demand for fuel for personal vehicles in emerging
markets (i.e., former USSR and let's not forget the *billions* of folks in
China) than ever before which strains production as well."
The former USSR produces much much more oil than it uses. In fact, the former USSR is a factor for lower oil prices becasue they are not part of the OPEC system and thus they increased production drasticaly when the prices began to climb.
It is true China has increased its demand, but most of the billion of folks in there still cannot afford a car, and demand in china is still minor compared to that of the US.
to eco-weenies which contributes to price bump. "
Eco restrictions on gas were exactly the same back in the Clinton years. I remember some time in the mid-late 90s gas was 99c a gallon !!! Also refining has nothing to do with the price of oil ... and the price of oil is high as hell. So you cannot blame it on refining only.
It should be also added that the fact that there are no new refineries being built has more to do with anti competetive practices of the oil companies than ecological restrictions.
"FACT: Gasoline has to be refined for specific metropolitan areas, call it
'designer' gasoline (again thank eco-weeinies) which also contributes to
price bump."
Maybe it does. But I bet what contributes the most is the $65 per barrel price of oil.
"FACT: There is more demand for fuel for personal vehicles in emerging
markets (i.e., former USSR and let's not forget the *billions* of folks in
China) than ever before which strains production as well."
The former USSR produces much much more oil than it uses. In fact, the former USSR is a factor for lower oil prices becasue they are not part of the OPEC system and thus they increased production drasticaly when the prices began to climb.
It is true China has increased its demand, but most of the billion of folks in there still cannot afford a car, and demand in china is still minor compared to that of the US.
#23
08-14-2005, 04:55 PM
It is true China has increased its demand, but most of the billion of folks in there still cannot afford a car, and demand in china is still minor compared to that of the US.
That's true but China is largely responsible for the oil supply shortage since they weren't even a factor ten years ago and now their demand is increasing by 10%+ each year.
We just have to allow the system to work. As the oil price increases past $70 a barrel, it will encourage more exploration and even make alternatives to gasoline a lot more viable.
That's true but China is largely responsible for the oil supply shortage since they weren't even a factor ten years ago and now their demand is increasing by 10%+ each year.
We just have to allow the system to work. As the oil price increases past $70 a barrel, it will encourage more exploration and even make alternatives to gasoline a lot more viable.
#24
08-14-2005, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by FAST1
Oil is just like any other commodity; it's supply and demand. Based on a report I heard on CNBC, the oil suppliers are producing at near 100% of their capabilities and they are just barely keeping up with world demand. So when you have strong demand for a commodity that is in limited supply, prices will rise until either the demand lessens or the supply increases. The biggest fear however, is that any disruption in oil supply of any consequence will cause gas shortages.
The vast majority of posters on this Board have never witnessed a supply shortage. As soon as there is any fear of a shortage, the problem intensifies because most people won't allow their gas tanks to get below half full. The old gezzers on this Board know what it's like to wait 30 minutes or more just to get gas. We lived through it in the mid 70s. The gas stations limited the amount of gas you could buy, and they had odd and even days for buying gas. The last digit on your license plate determined your status. Also, most gas stations were closed on Sundays and their hours of operation during the week days were limited.
Yes I know you are thinking here's some guy crying the sky is falling, but it happened once and it could happen again. Well if it does happen, we at least have relatively fuel efficient cars.
The vast majority of posters on this Board have never witnessed a supply shortage. As soon as there is any fear of a shortage, the problem intensifies because most people won't allow their gas tanks to get below half full. The old gezzers on this Board know what it's like to wait 30 minutes or more just to get gas. We lived through it in the mid 70s. The gas stations limited the amount of gas you could buy, and they had odd and even days for buying gas. The last digit on your license plate determined your status. Also, most gas stations were closed on Sundays and their hours of operation during the week days were limited.
Yes I know you are thinking here's some guy crying the sky is falling, but it happened once and it could happen again. Well if it does happen, we at least have relatively fuel efficient cars.
#25
08-15-2005, 12:21 AM
While I won't argue that demand has increased, I remember not too long ago that per-barrel pricing was trading in the high $30 range. If, as some media publications have asserted, the largest factor for the recent rise in oil prices is demand, and the price has effectively doubled, then does that mean that demand has also doubled?
Whatever. I'm all for capitalism, but it's frustrating waiting for the system to stabalize.
Whatever. I'm all for capitalism, but it's frustrating waiting for the system to stabalize.
#26
08-15-2005, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by trey.hutcheson
While I won't argue that demand has increased, I remember not too long ago that per-barrel pricing was trading in the high $30 range. If, as some media publications have asserted, the largest factor for the recent rise in oil prices is demand, and the price has effectively doubled, then does that mean that demand has also doubled?
Whatever. I'm all for capitalism, but it's frustrating waiting for the system to stabalize.
Whatever. I'm all for capitalism, but it's frustrating waiting for the system to stabalize.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.....
#27
08-15-2005, 05:42 PM
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by neffster
Because they would FEAR that their constituents would vote them out of office and they would lose their cushy jobs, big salaries, free medical for life, their nice pensions, etc...
Democracy is wonderful thing. Too bad you don't seem to embrace it more and spend less timing BLAMING one person or party.
Using your logic, I blame you for not writing your congressmen and senators and telling them you're upset about the high gas prices.
Democracy is wonderful thing. Too bad you don't seem to embrace it more and spend less timing BLAMING one person or party.
Using your logic, I blame you for not writing your congressmen and senators and telling them you're upset about the high gas prices.
First of all my comments are not directed at anyone in particular and here is Mr. President of some club snubbing another member at a personal level as being ignorant, etc. Hmmm... state of Florida. Well I apologize for mentioning some name and not his inner circle or the democracy our lives enjoy. Coincidentally, gas prices fluctuated wildly during and after the first gulf war as well and we saw the lowest pump prices during and near the end of the clinton administration. Ouch for the oil related states and families.
Luckily our fuel prices are no where near european and asian rates. And maybe that's to blame, hey gas is cheap who cares. Look at the size of the trucks and SUV's that haul a single driver to work everyday in north america. And I understand most drive more than an hour to work each way in rush hour traffic. It's a fact north americans have the highest per capital energy consumption in the world (including food...which leads to other problems).
Fuel cost increase is inevitable but the rate of increase (and fluctuations in my neck of woods) and timing are unreasonable.
Higher gas prices does not upset me on a personal level. I can but will not afford it. My lifestyle can be adjusted to reduce overall energy consumption by driving less and by embracing fuel efficient technology. But to rub more salt in earth's wound... Here is something very few of us noticed, diesel costs. Newer diesel cars are been able to get 600 miles per tank with minimal particulate pollution and diesel passenger cars are becoming more popular. But hang on here. Diesel fuel, which have always costed about 60% of gasoline in north america, now costs as much as gasoline in the last few years. Why? Does cleaner diesel fuel really cost nearly twice as much? Are we really getting cleaner diesel at our pumps? This goes for propane as well. It's cost have doubled in the last few years and its not related to oil barrel costs.
What is upsetting is how the price of ALL fuels are being manipulated, the iraqi invasion and the possibility of the same for iran. [Sorry I did have a deeper scab to pick.] Who is benefitting from fuel costs increases and has the power to manipulate it?
Originally Posted by FAST1
That's true but China is largely responsible for the oil supply shortage since they weren't even a factor ten years ago and now their demand is increasing by 10%+ each year.
The construction industry blamed the increased cost of steel due to the developments in china. But according to my steel supplier steel imported from asian countries such as korea and china, is still the least expensive available.Government taxes on vehicles in most asian countries are at least 100%. So only the most elite can afford to drive on a regular basis. And the population of this group are no where near the amount of people that drive in north america.
Ahh... we live in a wonderfully democratic world where the news that matters is censored and most people believe in every story our media shows on the tube.
#28
08-15-2005, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by clinty
Now how does democracy come into play here??? ....
....Democracy n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies- Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
Reread my last post about getting involved (letter writing), voting out your elected officials if they don't do as you like, etc. and quit typing so much blah blah blah Jacky Handy - Deep Thoughts blah, blah, blah...
#29
08-15-2005, 08:36 PM
It's always some other country's fault isn't it?! The construction industry blamed the increased cost of steel due to the developments in china. But according to my steel supplier steel imported from asian countries such as korea and china, is still the least expensive available.
Government taxes on vehicles in most asian countries are at least 100%. So only the most elite can afford to drive on a regular basis. And the population of this group are no where near the amount of people that drive in north america.
IEA cuts China oil consumption forecast
Energy group says demand is still strong, but incomplete data hinders forecast of Chinese oil use.
August 11, 2005: 7:21 AM EDT
LONDON (Reuters) - The International Energy Agency (IEA) cut its oil demand forecasts for China's rapidly expanding economy Thursday as growth in fuel consumption continued to slow from last year's blistering pace.
The IEA, adviser to 26 industrialized nations, revised down its prediction for 2005 oil use by 40,000 barrels per day (bpd) to 320,000 bpd and knocked 20,000 bpd from its 2006 forecast. Oil demand is now expected to increase by about 4.9 percent this year, down from a rapid 15 percent last year.
Expectations that China will draw in much more of the world's fuel to feed its expanding industries has contributed to a relentless rise in oil prices in the past two years.
"Demand is still strong within China but growth was exceptionally strong last year. That year-on-year growth is narrower is not a surprise," said Lawrence Eagles, head of the IEA's markets division. At the start of this year, the IEA was forecasting China's oil demand would grow 5.7 percent.
Recent Chinese fuel consumption figures are at odds with economic data that shows an economy that is growing at nearly 10 percent. Incomplete information, government price caps that stifle supply and unknown shifts in domestic inventories all cloud the picture for oil, analysts say.
"Dissecting the Chinese demand picture has certainly been a challenge in recent years," the IEA said, noting contradictory signals from the world's most populous nation.
It said there were signs that refiners may be cutting back on product exports in August and September.
"This should help boost apparent demand, but early reports indicate that apparent demand growth will be lower than previously anticipated," the IEA said.
"On the whole, third quarter apparent demand is revised down by 120,000 barrels per day and fourth quarter demand is adjusted downwards by 10,000 barrels per day."
Fuel oil appeared to be losing out to thermal coal, the IEA said. And retail price controls had the effect of making Chinese refiners reluctant to sell into their local market.
A mystery over China's oil inventories adds to the confusion, analysts say. In contrast with top consumer the United States, where detailed weekly reports are fed to a data-hungry market, China's government and refiners are tight-lipped about their stockpiles.
The construction industry blamed the increased cost of steel due to the developments in china. But according to my steel supplier steel imported from asian countries such as korea and china, is still the least expensive available.Government taxes on vehicles in most asian countries are at least 100%. So only the most elite can afford to drive on a regular basis. And the population of this group are no where near the amount of people that drive in north america.
IEA cuts China oil consumption forecast
Energy group says demand is still strong, but incomplete data hinders forecast of Chinese oil use.
August 11, 2005: 7:21 AM EDT
LONDON (Reuters) - The International Energy Agency (IEA) cut its oil demand forecasts for China's rapidly expanding economy Thursday as growth in fuel consumption continued to slow from last year's blistering pace.
The IEA, adviser to 26 industrialized nations, revised down its prediction for 2005 oil use by 40,000 barrels per day (bpd) to 320,000 bpd and knocked 20,000 bpd from its 2006 forecast. Oil demand is now expected to increase by about 4.9 percent this year, down from a rapid 15 percent last year.
Expectations that China will draw in much more of the world's fuel to feed its expanding industries has contributed to a relentless rise in oil prices in the past two years.
"Demand is still strong within China but growth was exceptionally strong last year. That year-on-year growth is narrower is not a surprise," said Lawrence Eagles, head of the IEA's markets division. At the start of this year, the IEA was forecasting China's oil demand would grow 5.7 percent.
Recent Chinese fuel consumption figures are at odds with economic data that shows an economy that is growing at nearly 10 percent. Incomplete information, government price caps that stifle supply and unknown shifts in domestic inventories all cloud the picture for oil, analysts say.
"Dissecting the Chinese demand picture has certainly been a challenge in recent years," the IEA said, noting contradictory signals from the world's most populous nation.
It said there were signs that refiners may be cutting back on product exports in August and September.
"This should help boost apparent demand, but early reports indicate that apparent demand growth will be lower than previously anticipated," the IEA said.
"On the whole, third quarter apparent demand is revised down by 120,000 barrels per day and fourth quarter demand is adjusted downwards by 10,000 barrels per day."
Fuel oil appeared to be losing out to thermal coal, the IEA said. And retail price controls had the effect of making Chinese refiners reluctant to sell into their local market.
A mystery over China's oil inventories adds to the confusion, analysts say. In contrast with top consumer the United States, where detailed weekly reports are fed to a data-hungry market, China's government and refiners are tight-lipped about their stockpiles.
#30
08-15-2005, 08:51 PM
